Bentley Help change in working units

Bentley Help change in working units

Post by Vincent V » Wed, 08 Oct 1997 04:00:00



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> My company has been having trouble with accuracy with MicroStation 95
> under both DOS and Windows95 so what we have tried is to increase the
> number of positional units in our seed files.  We do structural,
> architectural,electrical, and mechanical drafting in 2D.  The drawings
> we produce range in plotted scale from about 1:5 to 1:200.  The original
> setting for working units in the seed files was 100 sub units per master
> unit and 1 positional unit per sub unit.  We increased the number of
> positional units to 10 and then we scaled the drawing up by a factor of
> 10.

> The problem which resulted is the fact that we have several hundred
> cells in multiple cell libraries that were created using the old seed
> files.  So when we insert a cell into a drawing that we be plotted at
> 1:100 we have to insert the cell at AS=1000.  This will cause problems
> with our tablet menus and customized screen menus.

> Is there any (simple) way that we can change all of these cells so that
> they can be inserted at the correct scale (ie. AS=100 in a 1:100
> drawing).  I considered the possiblility of inserting the cells into a
> file and dropping them, scaling them and recreating them but the number
> of cells makes this a very hard to take alternative.

> The problems that we were having with accuracy with the original seed
> files was when a line was draw horizontal and another was drawn
> vertically the angle measured between the two was not 90degrees but
> 89.9997degrees.  Also a box that was drawn and then rotated would
> measure differently after rotated.

> Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
> Dave Sheldon
> Structural Technologist
> Cochrane Engineering

Try the attached MDL. Good luck.

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Bentley Help change in working units

Post by Cochrane Grou » Wed, 08 Oct 1997 04:00:00


My company has been having trouble with accuracy with MicroStation 95
under both DOS and Windows95 so what we have tried is to increase the
number of positional units in our seed files.  We do structural,
architectural,electrical, and mechanical drafting in 2D.  The drawings
we produce range in plotted scale from about 1:5 to 1:200.  The original
setting for working units in the seed files was 100 sub units per master
unit and 1 positional unit per sub unit.  We increased the number of
positional units to 10 and then we scaled the drawing up by a factor of
10.  

The problem which resulted is the fact that we have several hundred
cells in multiple cell libraries that were created using the old seed
files.  So when we insert a cell into a drawing that we be plotted at
1:100 we have to insert the cell at AS=1000.  This will cause problems
with our tablet menus and customized screen menus.

Is there any (simple) way that we can change all of these cells so that
they can be inserted at the correct scale (ie. AS=100 in a 1:100
drawing).  I considered the possiblility of inserting the cells into a
file and dropping them, scaling them and recreating them but the number
of cells makes this a very hard to take alternative.

The problems that we were having with accuracy with the original seed
files was when a line was draw horizontal and another was drawn
vertically the angle measured between the two was not 90degrees but
89.9997degrees.  Also a box that was drawn and then rotated would
measure differently after rotated.

Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Dave Sheldon
Structural Technologist
Cochrane Engineering

 
 
 

Bentley Help change in working units

Post by Dave G Nels » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00



>The problem which resulted is the fact that we have several hundred
>cells in multiple cell libraries that were created using the old seed
>files.  So when we insert a cell into a drawing that we be plotted at
>1:100 we have to insert the cell at AS=1000.

CELLUTIL.MA can scale all the cells in a cell library -- it's a free
MDL app on Bentley's site.

Also check out Axiom's commercial Cell Manager app,
http://www.axiomint.com/

Quote:>The problems that we were having with accuracy with the original seed
>files was when a line was draw horizontal and another was drawn
>vertically the angle measured between the two was not 90degrees but
>89.9997degrees.

Hmm, should be an even 90.000000000 degrees, unless the north axis was
changed, or using auxilliary coordinates that don't line up evenly
with horizontal/vertical.

Quote:>Also a box that was drawn and then rotated would
>measure differently after rotated.

I believe it.  You can't expect a lot of precision there, but
increasing the positional units like you're doing should help.

dave

 
 
 

Bentley Help change in working units

Post by DP Kunat » Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00



> My company has been having trouble with accuracy with MicroStation 95
> under both DOS and Windows95 so what we have tried is to increase the
> number of positional units in our seed files.  We do structural,
> architectural,electrical, and mechanical drafting in 2D.  The drawings
> we produce range in plotted scale from about 1:5 to 1:200.  The original
> setting for working units in the seed files was 100 sub units per master
> unit and 1 positional unit per sub unit.  We increased the number of
> positional units to 10 and then we scaled the drawing up by a factor of
> 10.

> The problem which resulted is the fact that we have several hundred
> cells in multiple cell libraries that were created using the old seed
> files.  So when we insert a cell into a drawing that we be plotted at
> 1:100 we have to insert the cell at AS=1000.  This will cause problems
> with our tablet menus and customized screen menus.

> Is there any (simple) way that we can change all of these cells so that
> they can be inserted at the correct scale (ie. AS=100 in a 1:100
> drawing).  I considered the possiblility of inserting the cells into a
> file and dropping them, scaling them and recreating them but the number
> of cells makes this a very hard to take alternative.

> The problems that we were having with accuracy with the original seed
> files was when a line was draw horizontal and another was drawn
> vertically the angle measured between the two was not 90degrees but
> 89.9997degrees.  Also a box that was drawn and then rotated would
> measure differently after rotated.

> Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
> Dave Sheldon
> Structural Technologist
> Cochrane Engineering

I could be wrong. . . You may benifit more from actualy having to
rescale all your cells as a lesson in the proper set up of drawing file
MuSuPu.  Mstation's historic "limitation" of having a finite "accuracy"
is one that each user must consider when starting a project.  As a user
since 3.0d, this paramiter has always been my first consideration at the
start of a project.  In the civil field, a MuSuPu of 1(Mu ft) 10(Su th)
1000 Pu provides adiquate acuracy for all but the most *retentive
land surveyors. . .  unless you're dealing with machine tolerances that
are reeeely tight, this range should be adiquate for the diciplines you
discribe, (although structual engineers may share some of the land
surveyor's penchants for accuracy out to 6 places).

Bump the Pu another 0 if you're still skitish.  Also, perhaps if you set
your distance/angle read outs to 2-3 places, you could measure closer to
the number you expect.

Like I say, I could be wrong

 
 
 

Bentley Help change in working units

Post by Steve Twis » Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:00:00




> > My company has been having trouble with accuracy with MicroStation 95
> > under both DOS and Windows95 so what we have tried is to increase the
> > number of positional units in our seed files.  We do structural,
> > architectural,electrical, and mechanical drafting in 2D.  The drawings
> > we produce range in plotted scale from about 1:5 to 1:200.  The original
> > setting for working units in the seed files was 100 sub units per master
> > unit and 1 positional unit per sub unit.  We increased the number of
> > positional units to 10 and then we scaled the drawing up by a factor of
> > 10.

> > The problem which resulted is the fact that we have several hundred
> > cells in multiple cell libraries that were created using the old seed
> > files.  So when we insert a cell into a drawing that we be plotted at
> > 1:100 we have to insert the cell at AS=1000.  This will cause problems
> > with our tablet menus and customized screen menus.

> > Is there any (simple) way that we can change all of these cells so that
> > they can be inserted at the correct scale (ie. AS=100 in a 1:100
> > drawing).  I considered the possiblility of inserting the cells into a
> > file and dropping them, scaling them and recreating them but the number
> > of cells makes this a very hard to take alternative.

> > The problems that we were having with accuracy with the original seed
> > files was when a line was draw horizontal and another was drawn
> > vertically the angle measured between the two was not 90degrees but
> > 89.9997degrees.  Also a box that was drawn and then rotated would
> > measure differently after rotated.

> > Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
> > Thanks in advance
> > Dave Sheldon
> > Structural Technologist
> > Cochrane Engineering

> I could be wrong. . . You may benifit more from actualy having to
> rescale all your cells as a lesson in the proper set up of drawing file
> MuSuPu.  Mstation's historic "limitation" of having a finite "accuracy"
> is one that each user must consider when starting a project.  As a user
> since 3.0d, this paramiter has always been my first consideration at the
> start of a project.  In the civil field, a MuSuPu of 1(Mu ft) 10(Su th)
> 1000 Pu provides adiquate acuracy for all but the most *retentive
> land surveyors. . .  unless you're dealing with machine tolerances that
> are reeeely tight, this range should be adiquate for the diciplines you
> discribe, (although structual engineers may share some of the land
> surveyor's penchants for accuracy out to 6 places).

> Bump the Pu another 0 if you're still skitish.  Also, perhaps if you set
> your distance/angle read outs to 2-3 places, you could measure closer to
> the number you expect.

> Like I say, I could be wrong

We recognized this as a potential trouble spot some time ago and
modified our software to accomodate this. Now you can change overall
scale factors along with individual cell scale factors quickly and
painlessly, on a project by project basis, without touching the original
cell libraries.

SPECIAL-> 3D MicroStation Construction Software For $500!

Please stop by http://www.veryComputer.com/ and take advantage of the special
DACIS is running: the complete DACIS Construction System for only
$500US.  This includes DACIS Architectural, DACIS Framing, DACIS HVAC,
DACIS Plumbing, DACIS Electrical, DACIS Estimating and Rules Based Bills
Of Mateials, over 4000 cells and DACIS Job Cost. ALL for $500. WOW!

Regards,
Steve Twiss

 
 
 

Bentley Help change in working units

Post by Jim Weisgr » Sun, 12 Oct 1997 04:00:00



>My company has been having trouble with accuracy with MicroStation 95
>under both DOS and Windows95 so what we have tried is to increase the
>number of positional units in our seed files.  We do structural,
>architectural,electrical, and mechanical drafting in 2D.  The drawings
>we produce range in plotted scale from about 1:5 to 1:200.  The original
>setting for working units in the seed files was 100 sub units per master
>unit and 1 positional unit per sub unit.  We increased the number of
>positional units to 10 and then we scaled the drawing up by a factor of
>10.  

[...snip...]

Quote:>Thanks in advance
>Dave Sheldon
>Structural Technologist
>Cochrane Engineering

I saw in the most recent Client Server newsletter that Bentley was adding
something to MicroStation SE - a user defined toggle (I believe they called it
enhanced precision).

It sounds like this will provide 65,536 additional "sub" positional units
between each PU that already exists.

I imagine that means that any new geometry placed or modified with this setting
turned on will be much more accurate than you can place it today. I also imagine
that any existing geometry will have the same problems they already have.

I always thought Bentley's newer file formats that they support when they go
object oriented would include double precision coordinates. But this approach
gives about the same level of precision and the precision remains constant over
the extent of the design plane. A neat trick for us picky surveyor types who can
never get enough precision.

--
All opinions expressed are mine and not my employers
Jim Weisgram
Oregon Department of Transportation
Remove "2" in email address when replying

 
 
 

Bentley Help change in working units

Post by n.. » Thu, 16 Oct 1997 04:00:00




> >My company has been having trouble with accuracy with MicroStation 95
> >under both DOS and Windows95 so what we have tried is to increase the
> >number of positional units in our seed files.  We do structural,
> >architectural,electrical, and mechanical drafting in 2D.  The drawings
> >we produce range in plotted scale from about 1:5 to 1:200.  The original
> >setting for working units in the seed files was 100 sub units per master
> >unit and 1 positional unit per sub unit.  We increased the number of
> >positional units to 10 and then we scaled the drawing up by a factor of
> >10.

> [...snip...]

> >Thanks in advance
> >Dave Sheldon
> >Structural Technologist
> >Cochrane Engineering

> I saw in the most recent Client Server newsletter that Bentley was adding
> something to MicroStation SE - a user defined toggle (I believe they called it
> enhanced precision).

> It sounds like this will provide 65,536 additional "sub" positional units
> between each PU that already exists.

> I imagine that means that any new geometry placed or modified with this setting
> turned on will be much more accurate than you can place it today. I also imagine
> that any existing geometry will have the same problems they already have.

> I always thought Bentley's newer file formats that they support when they go
> object oriented would include double precision coordinates. But this approach
> gives about the same level of precision and the precision remains constant over
> the extent of the design plane. A neat trick for us picky surveyor types who can
> never get enough precision.

> --
> All opinions expressed are mine and not my employers
> Jim Weisgram
> Oregon Department of Transportation
> Remove "2" in email address when replying

You can use CELLUTIL.MA.  It allows you to scale a cell library up or
down.  I've used it to create different size libraries and then use
RCL.MA to replace the cells with the same names.  Instantly you have a
file with all the cells larger or smaller.  Pretty cool!!!
 
 
 

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