Dimensions

Dimensions

Post by Jan Dvo?á » Sat, 29 Jul 2000 04:00:00



Two questions regarding Dimensions (I am using MicroStation/J 7.1).

(1) Is it possible to move dimension text other than parallel along
dimension lines without destroying the dimension? I would like to move that
text perpendicular to dimension lines as well, thus placing it anywhere.
I have noticed the new command (with new icon) MODIFY DIMENSION LOC, but it
seems to me that it does the same as did MODIFY ELEMENT before the new
command appeared.
I have also provided a graphical explanation at
www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q1
(total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

(2) Is it possible to break a dimension, which consists of several parts,
into two, again without destroying the dimension? I know that one can insert
additional dimensions, but I cannot "partial delete" the whole dimension.
I have also provided a graphical explanation at
www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q2
(total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems (or
thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

TIA,
Jan Dvorak
di5 architekti inzenyri
Prague - Czech Republic

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Dave Presto » Sat, 29 Jul 2000 04:00:00


I cannot work out a way of doing either, and I did not know you could use
insert / delete vertex, so thanks for that.

--
Regards
Dave Preston.
Software Development Engineer
C.A.Design Services Ltd

www  : www.cadesign.demon.co.uk


Quote:> Two questions regarding Dimensions (I am using MicroStation/J 7.1).

> (1) Is it possible to move dimension text other than parallel along
> dimension lines without destroying the dimension? I would like to move
that
> text perpendicular to dimension lines as well, thus placing it anywhere.
> I have noticed the new command (with new icon) MODIFY DIMENSION LOC, but
it
> seems to me that it does the same as did MODIFY ELEMENT before the new
> command appeared.
> I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q1
> (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> (2) Is it possible to break a dimension, which consists of several parts,
> into two, again without destroying the dimension? I know that one can
insert
> additional dimensions, but I cannot "partial delete" the whole dimension.
> I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q2
> (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems (or
> thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

> TIA,
> Jan Dvorak
> di5 architekti inzenyri
> Prague - Czech Republic


 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Dennis Barke » Sun, 30 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Really Dave, You didn't know that? Well you learned something new for today
then!

As for Jan's posting, these are frustrations we've probably all learned to
live with. There are probably more important things most of us would like to
see added, but that doesn't mean more flexible dimension placement wouldn't
be useful also.

Dennis Barker


> I cannot work out a way of doing either, and I did not know you could use
> insert / delete vertex, so thanks for that.

> --
> Regards
> Dave Preston.
> Software Development Engineer
> C.A.Design Services Ltd

> www  : www.cadesign.demon.co.uk



> > Two questions regarding Dimensions (I am using MicroStation/J 7.1).

> > (1) Is it possible to move dimension text other than parallel along
> > dimension lines without destroying the dimension? I would like to move
> that
> > text perpendicular to dimension lines as well, thus placing it anywhere.
> > I have noticed the new command (with new icon) MODIFY DIMENSION LOC, but
> it
> > seems to me that it does the same as did MODIFY ELEMENT before the new
> > command appeared.
> > I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> > www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q1
> > (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> > (2) Is it possible to break a dimension, which consists of several
parts,
> > into two, again without destroying the dimension? I know that one can
> insert
> > additional dimensions, but I cannot "partial delete" the whole
dimension.
> > I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> > www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q2
> > (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> > I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems
(or
> > thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

> > TIA,
> > Jan Dvorak
> > di5 architekti inzenyri
> > Prague - Czech Republic

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Dennis Barke » Sun, 30 Jul 2000 04:00:00


I should also have added that you can alter the distance the text is away
form the line by adjusting the "Lower Margin" setting in the Dimensions
Settings > Tolerance Dialog. This works as a factor of the text height, so a
number like 10 will be 10 times your text height from the dimension line. It
will, however, effect the whole dimension string, so if you want just one
dimension changed, it will have to be a separate dimension.

If you want to cheat (not highly recommended - but if there is no other
option), Edit the dimension to be an empty string or spaces, then place some
text where you want it.

Dennis Barker


> Really Dave, You didn't know that? Well you learned something new for
today
> then!

> As for Jan's posting, these are frustrations we've probably all learned to
> live with. There are probably more important things most of us would like
to
> see added, but that doesn't mean more flexible dimension placement
wouldn't
> be useful also.

> Dennis Barker



> > I cannot work out a way of doing either, and I did not know you could
use
> > insert / delete vertex, so thanks for that.

> > --
> > Regards
> > Dave Preston.
> > Software Development Engineer
> > C.A.Design Services Ltd

> > www  : www.cadesign.demon.co.uk



> > > Two questions regarding Dimensions (I am using MicroStation/J 7.1).

> > > (1) Is it possible to move dimension text other than parallel along
> > > dimension lines without destroying the dimension? I would like to move
> > that
> > > text perpendicular to dimension lines as well, thus placing it
anywhere.
> > > I have noticed the new command (with new icon) MODIFY DIMENSION LOC,
but
> > it
> > > seems to me that it does the same as did MODIFY ELEMENT before the new
> > > command appeared.
> > > I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> > > www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q1
> > > (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> > > (2) Is it possible to break a dimension, which consists of several
> parts,
> > > into two, again without destroying the dimension? I know that one can
> > insert
> > > additional dimensions, but I cannot "partial delete" the whole
> dimension.
> > > I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> > > www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q2
> > > (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> > > I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems
> (or
> > > thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

> > > TIA,
> > > Jan Dvorak
> > > di5 architekti inzenyri
> > > Prague - Czech Republic

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Jan Dvo?á » Sun, 30 Jul 2000 04:00:00



Quote:>Really Dave, You didn't know that? Well you learned something new for today
>then!

>As for Jan's posting, these are frustrations we've probably all learned to
>live with.

Really? See, I am in an "mixed" office (both AutoCAD and MicroStation), and
what you call "frustrations" is the main reason AutoCAD guys won't do
working drawings in MicroStation.
Quote:>There are probably more important things most of us would like to
>see added,

I would be interested to learn what you consider more important. Surely a
key feature to get AutoCAD users onto MicroStation is quite important
(listen, Bentley, this translates into marketshare=$$$!) for itself.
Quote:>but that doesn't mean more flexible dimension placement wouldn't
>be useful also.

Thanks for at least some support :)

Quote:

>Dennis Barker

Jan Dvorak
 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Samuel » Sun, 30 Jul 2000 04:00:00


After many years in the Engineering Industry the 1800 dimension in Figures
1.3,1.4 & 1.5 is the strangest looking dimension I have ever set eyes on.
Why not move the 1800 off the sheet completely and let the builder guess
what they are?
I don't know where you got your training but I suspect you haven't got much
idea of what can go wrong if a dimension does not sit on or close to the
dimension line.
--
Regards
Sam McCammond
Galilee Engineering Design Services
http://www.galilee.co.za


Quote:> Two questions regarding Dimensions (I am using MicroStation/J 7.1).

> (1) Is it possible to move dimension text other than parallel along
> dimension lines without destroying the dimension? I would like to move
that
> text perpendicular to dimension lines as well, thus placing it anywhere.
> I have noticed the new command (with new icon) MODIFY DIMENSION LOC, but
it
> seems to me that it does the same as did MODIFY ELEMENT before the new
> command appeared.
> I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q1
> (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> (2) Is it possible to break a dimension, which consists of several parts,
> into two, again without destroying the dimension? I know that one can
insert
> additional dimensions, but I cannot "partial delete" the whole dimension.
> I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q2
> (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems (or
> thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

> TIA,
> Jan Dvorak
> di5 architekti inzenyri
> Prague - Czech Republic

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Dennis Barke » Mon, 31 Jul 2000 04:00:00


I hardly think a couple of more flexible bits in Autocad Dimensioning is
going to be a major factor to stop people moving to Microstation. They may
use it as an excuse, but basically people don't like change. They are
comfortable with what they know and how they use it. If given a choice, they
will choose what they know. Wouldn't you? If not given a choice, they will
use what they are given. Moving from one package to another, either way,
will raise issues that users like better in their previous better known
software. But at the end of the day, a drawing is required and both can do
it.

As for more important things, there are many. I use triforma and there are
many things which would be more useful to me in that area than more flexible
dimensioning. Ask Sam about his Change requests for Modeller. How many of
those relate to dimensions?

I don't disagree with you. Dimensioning could be better, but so could lots
of other things - in Autocad as well!

Dennis Barker




> >Really Dave, You didn't know that? Well you learned something new for
today
> >then!

> >As for Jan's posting, these are frustrations we've probably all learned
to
> >live with.
> Really? See, I am in an "mixed" office (both AutoCAD and MicroStation),
and
> what you call "frustrations" is the main reason AutoCAD guys won't do
> working drawings in MicroStation.
> >There are probably more important things most of us would like to
> >see added,
> I would be interested to learn what you consider more important. Surely a
> key feature to get AutoCAD users onto MicroStation is quite important
> (listen, Bentley, this translates into marketshare=$$$!) for itself.
> >but that doesn't mean more flexible dimension placement wouldn't
> >be useful also.
> Thanks for at least some support :)

> >Dennis Barker

> Jan Dvorak

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Jan Dvo?á » Mon, 31 Jul 2000 04:00:00



Quote:>After many years in the Engineering Industry the 1800 dimension in Figures
>1.3,1.4 & 1.5 is the strangest looking dimension I have ever set eyes on.
>Why not move the 1800 off the sheet completely and let the builder guess
>what they are?

Your contribution is the most helpful I have ever set eyes on.
Quote:>I don't know where you got your training

...and I don't know where you have got YOUR training, but I suspect
politeness was not high on the agenda.
Quote:>but I suspect you haven't got much
>idea of what can go wrong if a dimension does not sit on or close to the
>dimension line.

FYI, Czech standards allow dimension text placed above or under the
dimension line, as indicated in those pictures. They also allow for what was
shown on picture 1.5. And I don't think discussing whether this is
reasonable or not brings us any further here.
I am surprised how vehemently you take those very "explicit" pictures away
from what they are supposed to achieve: they are supposed to communicate the
IDEA I tried to explain in my original post - notice that I haven't posted
any "real life" working drawings.

>--
>Regards
>Sam McCammond
>Galilee Engineering Design Services
>http://www.galilee.co.za

>> I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems
(or
>> thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

You obviously came to rather different conclusions.
 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Samuel » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00


To put it bluntly, what you are asking is not possible in MicroStation. And
Bentley have got more urgent matters to deal with than placing dimension
text 3" away from the dimension line.

--
Regards
Sam McCammond
Galilee Engineering Design Services
http://www.galilee.co.za


> *********************************************************************
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> >After many years in the Engineering Industry the 1800 dimension in
Figures
> >1.3,1.4 & 1.5 is the strangest looking dimension I have ever set eyes on.
> >Why not move the 1800 off the sheet completely and let the builder guess
> >what they are?
> Your contribution is the most helpful I have ever set eyes on.
> >I don't know where you got your training
> ...and I don't know where you have got YOUR training, but I suspect
> politeness was not high on the agenda.
> >but I suspect you haven't got much
> >idea of what can go wrong if a dimension does not sit on or close to the
> >dimension line.
> FYI, Czech standards allow dimension text placed above or under the
> dimension line, as indicated in those pictures. They also allow for what
was
> shown on picture 1.5. And I don't think discussing whether this is
> reasonable or not brings us any further here.
> I am surprised how vehemently you take those very "explicit" pictures away
> from what they are supposed to achieve: they are supposed to communicate
the
> IDEA I tried to explain in my original post - notice that I haven't posted
> any "real life" working drawings.

> >--
> >Regards
> >Sam McCammond
> >Galilee Engineering Design Services
> >http://www.galilee.co.za

> >> I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems
> (or
> >> thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

> You obviously came to rather different conclusions.

> *********************************************************************
> To Un/Subscribe your self to any Bentley System, Inc. "Majordomo" list:
>                  via web :   http://majordomo.bentley.com
> *********************************************************************

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Jeff Stuyvesan » Tue, 01 Aug 2000 04:00:00


I requested a "fix" for these two items (along with several others) from
Bentley about 3-years ago.  So far, as you can see, they have not improved
the situation.

Both of these items vex me so much that I stopped using continuous dimension
strings and place each segment separately.  This allows me to adjust the
text location vertically for an individual dimension and delete any segment
I require.  I know this seems like moving backward, but the flexibility
you've requested is absolutely necessary.

I'm surprised that Bentley has not added these by now as most modern CAD
systems have this ability (some have had this ability for over a decade).

Jeff Stuyvesant


Quote:> Two questions regarding Dimensions (I am using MicroStation/J 7.1).

> (1) Is it possible to move dimension text other than parallel along
> dimension lines without destroying the dimension? I would like to move
that
> text perpendicular to dimension lines as well, thus placing it anywhere.
> I have noticed the new command (with new icon) MODIFY DIMENSION LOC, but
it
> seems to me that it does the same as did MODIFY ELEMENT before the new
> command appeared.
> I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q1
> (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> (2) Is it possible to break a dimension, which consists of several parts,
> into two, again without destroying the dimension? I know that one can
insert
> additional dimensions, but I cannot "partial delete" the whole dimension.
> I have also provided a graphical explanation at
> www.di5.cz/uSt/ng_dimensions.html#q2
> (total size of html and png files is 19.6kB).

> I wonder whether other users have encountered these questions/problems (or
> thought about it) in their work (detail/production drawings).

> TIA,
> Jan Dvorak
> di5 architekti inzenyri
> Prague - Czech Republic

 
 
 

Dimensions

Post by Jan Dvo?á » Wed, 02 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Quote:>I requested a "fix" for these two items (along with several others) from
>Bentley about 3-years ago.

This is interesting to learn. Did you make a formal change request? If so,
would you have information about that CR, and could you email it to me?
Quote:>So far, as you can see, they have not improved
>the situation.

Yes, I can see that... :(

Quote:>Both of these items vex me so much that I stopped using continuous
dimension
>strings and place each segment separately.  This allows me to adjust the
>text location vertically for an individual dimension and delete any segment
>I require.

Not really the way to go... but I guess the best current MS can offer.
Quote:>I know this seems like moving backward, but the flexibility
>you've requested is absolutely necessary.

Thanks for your confirmation.

Quote:>I'm surprised that Bentley has not added these by now as most modern CAD
>systems have this ability

I know.. frustrating, isn't it?
Quote:>(some have had this ability for over a decade).

I am surprised, too, since MS would make an ideal "core" software which you
could use for the entire production cycle of a project (design, develop and
communicate with the client in 3D, then continuously refine and produce
working drawings out of it).

Quote:>Jeff Stuyvesant

Jan Dvorak