Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Adriano Rui Gominh » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:14:11



Hi all,

I need to build a small web site on my premisses to serve documents,
patches and a chat service to some of my customers. The chat service
has a TCP Server app running on an old 486 with 24Mb and the client is
embedded on my application - running fine...

Now for the web server I've played around with the IIS that is bundled
with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes
it stops working for no aparent reason and leaves the listening socket
blocked. Only a pc reboot can make it work again...

I am now turning to the www server from sabo and at least I can see it
running and understand why it sometime fails, and I could integrate
with the rest of my VO applications ...

One of (from what I learnt so far) its design flaws is the way it
manages incoming requests: It accepts the socket, read the request,
process it and then closes the socket. This overhead of thread
creation and destruction, as well as socket opening and closing gives
it a very poor performance on a page with a lot of graphics for
example.

I am looking for a way to change the sample to allow some degree of
socket reuse - maybe with connection timeouts.

Has anyone done this before and noticed a significant improvement on
its performance?

TIA

Adriano

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Eric Houran » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:28:19


Adriano,
Quote:>> with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes it

stops working for no aparent reason<<
I'm not a big IIS specialist but mine is running for months without any
aparent problem. AFAIK thousands of server are running IIS so I do have some
doubts about your assertion.

Eric

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Ed Richar » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:54:21


Adriano, at least make sure you have the w2k version of that sample,
presented by Sabo on some conferences. And perpare for some debugging there
are some things wrong in the sample. We have once looked into that but I
have to consult my customer if it's ok to publish the fixed version.
If you're reading this, I know you are ;-) maybe you can respond here.

Regards,
Ed



Quote:> Hi all,

> I need to build a small web site on my premisses to serve documents,
> patches and a chat service to some of my customers. The chat service
> has a TCP Server app running on an old 486 with 24Mb and the client is
> embedded on my application - running fine...

> Now for the web server I've played around with the IIS that is bundled
> with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes
> it stops working for no aparent reason and leaves the listening socket
> blocked. Only a pc reboot can make it work again...

> I am now turning to the www server from sabo and at least I can see it
> running and understand why it sometime fails, and I could integrate
> with the rest of my VO applications ...

> One of (from what I learnt so far) its design flaws is the way it
> manages incoming requests: It accepts the socket, read the request,
> process it and then closes the socket. This overhead of thread
> creation and destruction, as well as socket opening and closing gives
> it a very poor performance on a page with a lot of graphics for
> example.

> I am looking for a way to change the sample to allow some degree of
> socket reuse - maybe with connection timeouts.

> Has anyone done this before and noticed a significant improvement on
> its performance?

> TIA

> Adriano

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Phil McGuinnes » Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:38:53


Adriano,

snip[ IIS that is bundled with W2K prof and until now I've found it very
unreliable ]

Why not use W2k server and not W2K professional as the server ?
I have found the ASP as a scripting language on W2k can run out of resources
from time to time.
We never found the memory leaks but just dumped it in the end.
This was one reason we moved to PHP as language.. zero problems.

snip[ Only a pc reboot can make it work again... ]
Yes I can relate to that... but mainly after updating the numerous patches
from Microsoft that keep it running.

snip[ It accepts the socket, read the request, process it and then closes
the socket. This overhead of thread creation and destruction, as well as
socket opening and closing gives it a very poor performance on a page with a
lot of graphics for example.]

True...   make sure you are running LOCKDOWN and URL.. these stop a lot of
attempts at buffer over runs by malicious packets which also manipulate the
packets and buffers.. What happens is a malformed packet will instead being
discarded by W2K will allocate a buffer and request the packet again or wait
for the next ajoinging packet. If you received enough packets then you will
run out of buffers and get a buffer overrun and in the past this has allowed
and external users to get control of the machine. Essential a lot of the
patches over this year relate to this and other issues with hackers etc.

snip[ Has anyone done this before and noticed a significant improvement on
its performance?]
Use the Server version.

Phil McGuinness
-------------------



Quote:> Hi all,

> I need to build a small web site on my premisses to serve documents,
> patches and a chat service to some of my customers. The chat service
> has a TCP Server app running on an old 486 with 24Mb and the client is
> embedded on my application - running fine...

> Now for the web server I've played around with the IIS that is bundled
> with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes
> it stops working for no aparent reason and leaves the listening socket
> blocked. Only a pc reboot can make it work again...

> I am now turning to the www server from sabo and at least I can see it
> running and understand why it sometime fails, and I could integrate
> with the rest of my VO applications ...

> Adriano

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Adriano Rui Gominh » Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:56:33


Eric,

I have no doubts that IIS is a stable product since there are probably
thousands of servers running it. But I can't help feeling I am the
dumb part of the system because I cannot make it work properly after 4
hours. Maybe its too advanced for me<g>

Adriano

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:28:19 +0100, "Eric Hourant"


>Adriano,
>>> with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes it
>stops working for no aparent reason<<
>I'm not a big IIS specialist but mine is running for months without any
>aparent problem. AFAIK thousands of server are running IIS so I do have some
>doubts about your assertion.

>Eric

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Adriano Rui Gominh » Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:18:19


On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:38:53 +1100, "Phil McGuinness"


>Adriano,

>Why not use W2k server and not W2K professional as the server ?

Euros, or lack of it<g>

Quote:>I have found the ASP as a scripting language on W2k can run out of resources
>from time to time.
>We never found the memory leaks but just dumped it in the end.
>This was one reason we moved to PHP as language.. zero problems.

>snip[ Only a pc reboot can make it work again... ]
>Yes I can relate to that... but mainly after updating the numerous patches
>from Microsoft that keep it running.

I dont mind having to reboot the machine from time to time. What I
dont like is having to reboot to have things working properly
again...

Quote:

>snip[ It accepts the socket, read the request, process it and then closes
>the socket. This overhead of thread creation and destruction, as well as
>socket opening and closing gives it a very poor performance on a page with a
>lot of graphics for example.]

>True...   make sure you are running LOCKDOWN and URL.. these stop a lot of

Are LOCKDOWN and URL something to configure on the server?

Quote:>attempts at buffer over runs by malicious packets which also manipulate the
>packets and buffers.. What happens is a malformed packet will instead being
>discarded by W2K will allocate a buffer and request the packet again or wait
>for the next ajoinging packet. If you received enough packets then you will
>run out of buffers and get a buffer overrun and in the past this has allowed
>and external users to get control of the machine. Essential a lot of the
>patches over this year relate to this and other issues with hackers etc.

Yes, I know. I am now trying to overflow my VO TCP buffers and
identified some ways to crash the server application. What I did not
manage to do is to make it execute the injected code on the server,
but a decent hacker would probably do it.

>snip[ Has anyone done this before and noticed a significant improvement on
>its performance?]
>Use the Server version.

>Phil McGuinness
>-------------------



>> Hi all,

>> I need to build a small web site on my premisses to serve documents,
>> patches and a chat service to some of my customers. The chat service
>> has a TCP Server app running on an old 486 with 24Mb and the client is
>> embedded on my application - running fine...

>> Now for the web server I've played around with the IIS that is bundled
>> with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes
>> it stops working for no aparent reason and leaves the listening socket
>> blocked. Only a pc reboot can make it work again...

>> I am now turning to the www server from sabo and at least I can see it
>> running and understand why it sometime fails, and I could integrate
>> with the rest of my VO applications ...

>> Adriano

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Adriano Rui Gominh » Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:20:05


On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:54:21 +0100, "Ed Richard"


>Adriano, at least make sure you have the w2k version of that sample,
>presented by Sabo on some conferences. And perpare for some debugging there
>are some things wrong in the sample. We have once looked into that but I
>have to consult my customer if it's ok to publish the fixed version.
>If you're reading this, I know you are ;-) maybe you can respond here.

Ed's Customer... are you reading this?

Adriano

>Regards,
>Ed



>> Hi all,

>> I need to build a small web site on my premisses to serve documents,
>> patches and a chat service to some of my customers. The chat service
>> has a TCP Server app running on an old 486 with 24Mb and the client is
>> embedded on my application - running fine...

>> Now for the web server I've played around with the IIS that is bundled
>> with W2K prof and until now I've found it very unreliable - sometimes
>> it stops working for no aparent reason and leaves the listening socket
>> blocked. Only a pc reboot can make it work again...

>> I am now turning to the www server from sabo and at least I can see it
>> running and understand why it sometime fails, and I could integrate
>> with the rest of my VO applications ...

>> One of (from what I learnt so far) its design flaws is the way it
>> manages incoming requests: It accepts the socket, read the request,
>> process it and then closes the socket. This overhead of thread
>> creation and destruction, as well as socket opening and closing gives
>> it a very poor performance on a page with a lot of graphics for
>> example.

>> I am looking for a way to change the sample to allow some degree of
>> socket reuse - maybe with connection timeouts.

>> Has anyone done this before and noticed a significant improvement on
>> its performance?

>> TIA

>> Adriano

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Ed Richar » Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:02:30


Adriano,

I will pass this message on to him.

Ed



> On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:54:21 +0100, "Ed Richard"

> >Adriano, at least make sure you have the w2k version of that sample,
> >presented by Sabo on some conferences. And perpare for some debugging
there
> >are some things wrong in the sample. We have once looked into that but I
> >have to consult my customer if it's ok to publish the fixed version.
> >If you're reading this, I know you are ;-) maybe you can respond here.

> Ed's Customer... are you reading this?

> Adriano

 
 
 

Building upon Web Server sample... what has to be done?

Post by Hans Rattin » Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:28:40


Hi,

Although Ed/Frans will help you with the VO webserver, i have to say we've
got very good results with the freeware webserver from www.AnologX.com
called "Simple Server"... Ir runs cgi's without problems. Worth while a shot
i'd say.

Hans.