TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Moondoggi » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:20:33



I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with a 3 1/2"
drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old memories
playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so PC
speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now my games
are in stereo.

The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a PC
joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but to
no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think it
hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to floppies
as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move individual files.
Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it once you get
the file over there.

Thanks in advance.
Moondoggie

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Neil » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:39:23



Quote:> I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with
a 3 1/2"
> drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old
memories
> playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so
PC
> speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now
my games
> are in stereo.

> The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick'
or
> something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook
up a PC
> joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick
schematic, it
> shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search
engines but to
> no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I
think it
> hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

> I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to
floppies
> as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move
individual files.
> Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it
once you get
> the file over there.

Check out the Jeff Vavasour Model I emulator and the D M Keil
emulators.

N

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Jim Power » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:26:44


Using the emulators you can use your PC joystick. You can also write dmks to
formatted TRS-80 disks which can be read by your Model 3. I put a 3.5 in my
4p and can transfer from PC to LSdos disks and vice versa.



> > I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with
> a 3 1/2"
> > drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old
> memories
> > playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so
> PC
> > speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now
> my games
> > are in stereo.

> > The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick'
> or
> > something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook
> up a PC
> > joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick
> schematic, it
> > shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search
> engines but to
> > no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I
> think it
> > hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

> > I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to
> floppies
> > as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move
> individual files.
> > Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it
> once you get
> > the file over there.

> Check out the Jeff Vavasour Model I emulator and the D M Keil
> emulators.

> N

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Tim Man » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:33



> The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
> something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a PC
> joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
> shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but to
> no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think it
> hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

TRS-80 joysticks were generally just 5 switches, one for each of the
four directions you could push the joystick in, plus a fire button.
Pushing the stick diagonally would close two switches.  Today's PC
joysticks have something like 8 bits per direction to tell the PC how
far you pushed the joystick, so it would be highly nontrivial to hook
one up, and the feel would be wrong for playing TRS-80 games.  I'm not
sure about Atari joysticks -- are they one switch per direction?  If so,
that would be more suitable.

The joystick that I emulate in xtrs works as follows.  I'd be pleased to
hear about it if someone knows about other TRS-80 joysticks that worked
differently.

To read the joystick, input from port 00.  The bit assignments are:

North (up)   0x01
South (down) 0x02
West (left)  0x04
East (right) 0x08
Fire         0x10

To make your own joystick, you will also need the pinouts for the Model
III expansion bus.  I think you can find a suitable manual on either
Wade Fincher's or David Keil's TRS-80 manuals web site, but I haven't
checked.  Links to their sites are on my TRS-80 links page,
http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80links.html.

Quote:> I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to floppies
> as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move individual files.
> Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it once you get
> the file over there.

There is software for that on the PC side.  This should be handy for you
since you put a 3.5" drive into your TRS-80, and your PC probably
already has one of those.  The most straightforward thing to do will be
for you to get one of the emulators working on your PC, then use it to
copy .dsk or .dmk images onto real floppies.  There are some notes on
how to do that on my TRS-80 FAQ page, http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80faq.html.

--

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Jan Vanden Bossch » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:11:41


Hallo,




>> The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
>> something

...

Quote:>TRS-80 joysticks were generally just 5 switches, one for each of the
>four directions you could push the joystick in, plus a fire button.

... and they were directly connected to the 4 arrowbuttons and the spacebar.

Quote:>Atari joysticks -- are they one switch per direction?  If so,
>that would be more suitable.

Most TRS-80 joysticks I saw were homebrew.

Quote:>To make your own joystick, you will also need the pinouts for the Model
>III expansion bus.

Never saw one connected to the bus. The went into the keyboard.

Quote:>Tim Mann

Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus
Jan-80
 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Moondoggi » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:39:15





> > The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
> > something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a
PC
> > joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
> > shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but
to
> > no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think
it
> > hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

> TRS-80 joysticks were generally just 5 switches, one for each of the
> four directions you could push the joystick in, plus a fire button.
> Pushing the stick diagonally would close two switches.  Today's PC
> joysticks have something like 8 bits per direction to tell the PC how
> far you pushed the joystick, so it would be highly nontrivial to hook
> one up, and the feel would be wrong for playing TRS-80 games.  I'm not
> sure about Atari joysticks -- are they one switch per direction?  If so,
> that would be more suitable.

I've got a non analog joystick that should work just fine.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> The joystick that I emulate in xtrs works as follows.  I'd be pleased to
> hear about it if someone knows about other TRS-80 joysticks that worked
> differently.

> To read the joystick, input from port 00.  The bit assignments are:

> North (up)   0x01
> South (down) 0x02
> West (left)  0x04
> East (right) 0x08
> Fire         0x10

> To make your own joystick, you will also need the pinouts for the Model
> III expansion bus.  I think you can find a suitable manual on either
> Wade Fincher's or David Keil's TRS-80 manuals web site, but I haven't
> checked.  Links to their sites are on my TRS-80 links page,
> http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80links.html.

I've taken a look at my handy dandy technical reference manual but it has
very
little to say about the expansion bus.  Anyone got any idea what pins I
ground out to
send info to port 00??

Quote:

> > I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to
floppies
> > as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move individual
files.
> > Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it once you
get
> > the file over there.

> There is software for that on the PC side.  This should be handy for you
> since you put a 3.5" drive into your TRS-80, and your PC probably
> already has one of those.  The most straightforward thing to do will be
> for you to get one of the emulators working on your PC, then use it to
> copy .dsk or .dmk images onto real floppies.  There are some notes on
> how to do that on my TRS-80 FAQ page,

http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80faq.html.
I've tried for a while, but the copy protection prevents the image files
from being
read properly.

> --


Thanks!

I think I'm going to mail Bill Hogue, hope he's not so old now that he can't
remember.

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Mike Yetsk » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:11:49


Quote:> I've taken a look at my handy dandy technical reference manual but it has
> very
> little to say about the expansion bus.  Anyone got any idea what pins I
> ground out to
> send info to port 00??

The expansion port doesn't work that way.

You have to externally decode the address you want, then 'loop back'
the address as an external 'select' to get the bus to input.  Outputs, if
I remember correctly, you can just do with no loopback.

Also, if I remember right, the expansion connector doesn't do all 256
ports for IO, it only does 128, to keep external devices from interfering
with internal stuff.

Mike

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Moondoggi » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:38:36


I emailed Bill, if he can solve this mystery I'll pass it onto the group.

He designed the original Trisstick, so we'll see.

Moondoggie

Quote:> > I've taken a look at my handy dandy technical reference manual but it
has
> > very
> > little to say about the expansion bus.  Anyone got any idea what pins I
> > ground out to
> > send info to port 00??

> The expansion port doesn't work that way.

> You have to externally decode the address you want, then 'loop back'
> the address as an external 'select' to get the bus to input.  Outputs, if
> I remember correctly, you can just do with no loopback.

> Also, if I remember right, the expansion connector doesn't do all 256
> ports for IO, it only does 128, to keep external devices from interfering
> with internal stuff.

> Mike

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Knut Roll-Lun » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:28:07



> To read the joystick, input from port 00.  The bit assignments are:

> North (up)   0x01
> South (down) 0x02
> West (left)  0x04
> East (right) 0x08
> Fire         0x10

This is the same, what I have for my Video Genie (model I clone). It came
with a game from Cornsoft. There are quite a few of the games that support
this.

The interfacing is easy, it can be done with very few ic's. I wonder if I
have the original card still. I later built it into the box, made a
connector to match C64 and extrapolated the design to have 2 joystick
ports; port 0 and port 1.

My model 3 (mine for 2 months) has a connector that puts a C64 joystick in
parallel with the arrow keys and space. This seems to work with even more
games. I have also a description of a similar thing for the Video Genie.

PC joysticks; I have never seen anything but analog joysticks there. To
interface an analog joystick would be a bit more difficult.

The switch based joysticks seems to be hard to come by now. I got the one
I have in a fleamarked. The ones I originally had were all worn out (by my
younger brother, using them on his C64).

Knut

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Howard Boettche » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:32:36


That brings back memories.  Many years ago I hooked up an original Atari
joystick to the Model III keyboard and it worked fine.  A second attempt
with a Wico joystick worked equally well.  I found it worked great for
running on "Olympic Decathalon".
If you connected a flashing LED in series with the fire button, you got
rapid fire.
I'll search through my files for a wiring diagram, but I recall that it was
very easy as the 4 arrows and space bar were along the same row, and shared
a common ground.  The only modifications to the joystick was a different
connector, as I had mounted a 5pin DIN socket onto the keyboard.

Howard


Quote:> I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with a 3
1/2"
> drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old
memories
> playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so PC
> speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now my
games
> are in stereo.

> The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
> something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a PC
> joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
> shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but
to
> no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think
it
> hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

> I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to
floppies
> as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move individual
files.
> Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it once you
get
> the file over there.

> Thanks in advance.
> Moondoggie

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Moondoggi » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:22:32


Thanks Howard I'd appreciate that!

Moondoggie

> That brings back memories.  Many years ago I hooked up an original Atari
> joystick to the Model III keyboard and it worked fine.  A second attempt
> with a Wico joystick worked equally well.  I found it worked great for
> running on "Olympic Decathalon".
> If you connected a flashing LED in series with the fire button, you got
> rapid fire.
> I'll search through my files for a wiring diagram, but I recall that it
was
> very easy as the 4 arrows and space bar were along the same row, and
shared
> a common ground.  The only modifications to the joystick was a different
> connector, as I had mounted a 5pin DIN socket onto the keyboard.

> Howard



> > I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with a 3
> 1/2"
> > drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old
> memories
> > playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so PC
> > speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now my
> games
> > are in stereo.

> > The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
> > something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a
PC
> > joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
> > shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but
> to
> > no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think
> it
> > hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

> > I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to
> floppies
> > as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move individual
> files.
> > Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it once you
> get
> > the file over there.

> > Thanks in advance.
> > Moondoggie

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Leonard Erickso » Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:31:43


On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:20:33 -0400, "Moondoggie"


>I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with a 3 1/2"
>drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old memories
>playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so PC
>speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now my games
>are in stereo.

>The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
>something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a PC
>joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
>shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but to
>no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think it
>hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

The Model III can't use a PC joystick. It could use a modified Atari
joystick.

PC Joysticks have actual analog inputs for the X/Y values.

Atari joysticks use switches. A switch for up, one for down, one for
right, one for left. Plus the firing button.

The mods were a small circuit board that mapped the switch values to
bits on a particular port (and didn't fully decode the port address as
I learned when I tried to use my joystick with my Hi-Res graphics
board.

I don't recall which port or how the bits where mapped. But you could
probably build it easily enough if you can get the info. It was pretty
standard as a lot of games supported the Alpha Products(?) joystick.

I'd advise *fully* decoding the port address though, even if it does
take more chips.

I suspect that a "game controller" would be easy to interface, since
they use switch closures rather than pots.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Leonard Erickso » Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:33:55





>> The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
>> something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a PC
>> joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
>> shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but to
>> no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think it
>> hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

>TRS-80 joysticks were generally just 5 switches, one for each of the
>four directions you could push the joystick in, plus a fire button.
>Pushing the stick diagonally would close two switches.  Today's PC
>joysticks have something like 8 bits per direction to tell the PC how
>far you pushed the joystick, so it would be highly nontrivial to hook
>one up, and the feel would be wrong for playing TRS-80 games.  I'm not
>sure about Atari joysticks -- are they one switch per direction?  If so,
>that would be more suitable.

>The joystick that I emulate in xtrs works as follows.  I'd be pleased to
>hear about it if someone knows about other TRS-80 joysticks that worked
>differently.

>To read the joystick, input from port 00.  The bit assignments are:

Ok, I *know* that port address doesn't match the documented address
for the joystick I've still got buried somewhere. But I also know that
the didn't bother fully decoding the address either.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Nick Andr » Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:42:39



>The mods were a small circuit board that mapped the switch values to
>bits on a particular port (and didn't fully decode the port address as
>I learned when I tried to use my joystick with my Hi-Res graphics
>board.

I just wired mine in parallel with the up/down/left/right arrow keys.

Nick.
--
http://www.nick-andrew.net/                     http://www.news-admin.org/
Do not send me email copies of postings. Keep it in USENET please.

 
 
 

TRS-80 Model III joystick interface

Post by Celebrity Direct Entertainment - Cord G. Coslo » Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:10:03


I do have the Trisstick manual around here somewhere that does have the
'schematics' for how they did it. I'm going through my storage as we speak,
and if you still need the info when I find it, I'll pass it along.

Sincerely,

CORD G. COSLOR
Archive Software
www.archivesoftware.ent

-----
|  PO Box 247 - Hutchinson, KS - 67504-0247
| (620) 665-8366

| AOL IM: CelebDirectEnt

Quote:> I've recently resurrected my TRS-80 Model III and outfitted it with a 3
1/2"
> drive, I can make DD bootable disks and have been reliving some old
memories
> playing my old games on the original hardware.  Even hooked up so PC
> speakers to it, replaced the old Archer Telephone listener and now my
games
> are in stereo.

> The thing I'd like to do is find a schematic for an old 'Trisstick' or
> something that would put me in the right direction so I could hook up a PC
> joystick to my model III, even if I had the Atari joystick schematic, it
> shouldn't be hard to adapt.  I've searched google and search engines but
to
> no avail, I'm hoping some of the elders here could help me out.  I think
it
> hooks up to the expansion card, but I'm not sure.

> I'm also looking for a way to transfer .DSK and .DMK image files to
floppies
> as well, the best I can do so far is use XFER/CMD to move individual
files.
> Perhaps there's something written for the TRS-80 that can do it once you
get
> the file over there.

> Thanks in advance.
> Moondoggie