Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by John Blackbur » Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:00:00



It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why
there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we
spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very
soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
ways of fixing the problem.

There may not be enough time left to fix all the systems, but let's try
hard to fix as many of the systems as we can to minimize the impact.
Then, after the year 2000 when all the systems that we fixed are
still running and the ones that we ran out of time to fix have failed,
we can sit around twiddling our thumbs discussing why we got into
this mess in the first place.

Cheers,
John Blackburn

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Peter Na » Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:00:00


On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:45:21 -0700, John Blackburn


>It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why
>there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we
>spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very
>soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
>programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
>ways of fixing the problem.

>There may not be enough time left to fix all the systems, but let's try
>hard to fix as many of the systems as we can to minimize the impact.
>Then, after the year 2000 when all the systems that we fixed are
>still running and the ones that we ran out of time to fix have failed,
>we can sit around twiddling our thumbs discussing why we got into
>this mess in the first place.

>Cheers,
>John Blackburn

John,

I agree with you 100% (or for some of us should that be 140%?).

I think it's time we sub-divided this newsgroup. How about:

comp.software.year.2000.insults
comp.software.year.2000.doomngloom
comp.software.year.2000.*
comp.software.year.2000.humour (or .humor if you prefer)
comp.software.year.2000.technical
comp.software.year.2000.employment
etc.

For this posting? Well! Just consign me to:
comp.software.year.2000.inane

Time to get serious, people.

Peter Nash, Bermuda
"Lost in the Bermuda Triangle"

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Jim River » Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:00:00



> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:45:21 -0700, John Blackburn

> >It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why
> >there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we
> >spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very
> >soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
> >programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
> >ways of fixing the problem.

> >There may not be enough time left to fix all the systems, but let's try
> >hard to fix as many of the systems as we can to minimize the impact.
> >Then, after the year 2000 when all the systems that we fixed are
> >still running and the ones that we ran out of time to fix have failed,
> >we can sit around twiddling our thumbs discussing why we got into
> >this mess in the first place.

> >Cheers,
> >John Blackburn

> John,

> I agree with you 100% (or for some of us should that be 140%?).

> I think it's time we sub-divided this newsgroup. How about:

> comp.software.year.2000.insults
> comp.software.year.2000.doomngloom
> comp.software.year.2000.*
> comp.software.year.2000.humour (or .humor if you prefer)
> comp.software.year.2000.technical
> comp.software.year.2000.employment
> etc.

> For this posting? Well! Just consign me to:
> comp.software.year.2000.inane

> Time to get serious, people.

> Peter Nash, Bermuda
> "Lost in the Bermuda Triangle"

        I agree.

JR

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Dave Eastabroo » Sat, 26 Jul 1997 04:00:00




Quote:>It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why
>there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we
>spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very
>soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
>programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
>ways of fixing the problem.

Who's wasting time? Not us. What's to discuss? *All* that's needed is
for companies (not us 1960/1970 programmers) to pay us the money to save
what we can.  No problem - well there is - there's not enough of us to
go around. And companies are "refusing to be blackmailed". No problem :(

I'm available now for fixing programs from the comfort of my own home.
After the normal working week.  PL/1 or Cobol 60ukp per hour ($100).
Assembler 90ukp ($150).  Machine code (lost source) 120ukp ($200).
Teleworking.  No wasted time at the coffee machine, answering phones.
Sheer undiluted productive time. But no-one's snatching my hands off
*yet*.  Rates valid until 31 August 1997 only !

So I've still got time at home to discuss anything I like. But generally
speaking I do agree with you.  But then I'm not a hand-waver.

:D
--
Dave Eastabrook
http://www.elmbronze.demon.co.uk/   /IBM/ or /year2000/ or /telework/

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Vikram Kulkarn » Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:00:00





> >It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why
> >there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we
> >spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very
> >soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
> >programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
> >ways of fixing the problem.

> Who's wasting time? Not us. What's to discuss? *All* that's needed is
> for companies (not us 1960/1970 programmers) to pay us the money to save
> what we can.  No problem - well there is - there's not enough of us to
> go around. And companies are "refusing to be blackmailed". No problem :(

> --
> Dave Eastabrook
> http://www.elmbronze.demon.co.uk/   /IBM/ or /year2000/ or /telework/

Hey Guys:

You want to stop wasting time and start fixing the problem?  Good, then
talk to me.

The first thing you will need is money.  Lots of it.  Get the budget
approval for millions of dollars.

Then you will need programmers.  Assuming that you have millions of
dollars, getting programmers is not a problem.  Fortunately, you can leave
that job to me.

Once you have these two things, you will need time.  Lots of it.
Unfortunately, you will never get enough of it.  

So, stop wasting time and send me an e-mail.

Vikram Kulkarni
(Dejanews, are you recording this? I am on record, saying that programmers
are still available.)

- Show quoted text -

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Chris Youn » Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Couldn't agree more.

I think part of the problem is that many people are trying to run their Y2K
conversions like a "traditional" project when in fact in reality it is just
an oversized fire-fighting exercise.

Tools can be a great benefit (obviously I'm biased !!) because they can
reduce the impact analysis stage of the project but fixing the problem
should ideally be a manual effort so as to keep control and make decision
about what shuold and shouldn't be changed - this takes a long time so it's
time to get going NOW !

--
=======================================
Datefind-db - Y2K Database Analyzer
Find the problem in days rather than weeks !
PC, Mainframe and mini compatible
http://freespace.*.net/ast.uk
=======================================



Quote:> It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why
> there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we
> spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very
> soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
> programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
> ways of fixing the problem.

> There may not be enough time left to fix all the systems, but let's try
> hard to fix as many of the systems as we can to minimize the impact.
> Then, after the year 2000 when all the systems that we fixed are
> still running and the ones that we ran out of time to fix have failed,
> we can sit around twiddling our thumbs discussing why we got into
> this mess in the first place.

> Cheers,
> John Blackburn

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Eric Buckle » Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:00:00



> Couldn't agree more.

> I think part of the problem is that many people are trying to run their Y2K
> conversions like a "traditional" project when in fact in reality it is just
> an oversized fire-fighting exercise.

Please explain the difference between a "traditional" project and an
oversized fire-fighting exercise. I believe that's what got us here. As
for fixing the problem, the projects that I know of that are completing
in good shape (including my own) have been very big on project control.
Getting away from the fire-fighting paradigm (sorry Cory, but that *is*
the word I'm looking for) and actually planning the project allowed us
to make some *really* good time once we started cranking code.

Of course, this last step is important. All the handwaving in the world
won't make it go away unless you have some quality geeks to carry the
day. But the organizations that are just waiting to fix it as it fails
are in for some * days on the high seas.
________________________
Eric Buckley
Comsys Millenium Services
eMail: remove NoSpam from above
Standard disclaimer - I speak for myself and nobody else.

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Alan Russel » Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:00:00





> > Couldn't agree more.

> > I think part of the problem is that many people are trying to run their
Y2K
> > conversions like a "traditional" project when in fact in reality it is
just
> > an oversized fire-fighting exercise.

> Please explain the difference between a "traditional" project and an
> oversized fire-fighting exercise. I believe that's what got us here. As
> for fixing the problem, the projects that I know of that are completing
> in good shape (including my own) have been very big on project control.
> Getting away from the fire-fighting paradigm (sorry Cory, but that *is*
> the word I'm looking for) and actually planning the project allowed us
> to make some *really* good time once we started cranking code.

> Of course, this last step is important. All the handwaving in the world
> won't make it go away unless you have some quality geeks to carry the
> day. But the organizations that are just waiting to fix it as it fails
> are in for some * days on the high seas.
> ________________________
> Eric Buckley
> Comsys Millenium Services
> eMail: remove NoSpam from above
> Standard disclaimer - I speak for myself and nobody else.

I'd like to take a middle-of-the-road position on this issue.  What makes
this project so interesting is that it has many attributes of both
"traditional" development and "fire fighting".  Like a traditional project,
it is large (perhaps larger than anything you've ever done before), has a
deadline (but more fixed than most), and requires a lot of upfront and
ongoing organization (literally thousands of details like X programs, Y
systems, Z vendor packages, etc.).  But unlike a traditional project, and
more like the firefighting paradigm, there is no "user" to get concurrence
of, no traditional design specification, no user manual to develop, and not
a lot of usual finish the analysis, then do the design, then the
implementation, etc. sequential flow of the project [although for each
component one follows those types of steps, this project is so broad that
it is not obvious at the macro level where you would normally see it
documented in some sort of gantt chart].

Our company follows a fairly rigorous methodology for all development
projects and a much different one for maintenance.   This project has been
exempted from such blueprints because it fits neither.  The flow is too
disparate for a traditional development project, but the size and span is
too large for a maintenance project.

But  does it really matter how we describe it or try to put it in a box
with a label?  The important thing is just get it done, NOW!!!  Spending
our time arguing or even discussing the issue doesn't solve the problem.

876 days to go [521 if you want to be finished by 1/1/1999].
--
Alan Russell, PhD

http://www.veryComputer.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed are mine alone and not those of the company I work
for.

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by J Jone » Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:00:00


snip=

Quote:

> Very boring, we are here to see how others are getting along, coping
> with the stress, (Money helps this a lot, so does humour, as well as
> rating the impact, and ranting, flaming, (I guess trying to say "it's
> the fault of alll those old farts that got us into this mess" is some
> peoples way of coping with the fact that they as managers will soon be
> hung out to dry, suggestion, learn how to program..., )

> I guess you could say this is our global Y2K group session, so I like it
> the way it is.

> Mike Echlin CP/SA

--------------------------------
Yep.  It's boring, tedious, heavy-lifting grunt work.  I spent most
of my day writing file expansion programs that will only get used
twice, once to create the test files, once when I go <live>.

Five years ago I had to inflate the whole system to make 3 enhancements,
(1) change PO Number from 6 numeric to 10 alpha
(2) change Serial Numbers from 9 numeric to 12 alpha
(3) change Part Numbers from 12 alpha to 18 alpha.

Sheesh, what a grinding task that was, almost every file converted,
every COBOL program re-compiled.  Now it's re-invent the wheel Part II.

If it wasn't for this Newsgroup, I'd be completely looney tunes.  OK,
maybe I am anyway.  Why didn't I Y2K this stuff 5 years ago?  (Not
enough time then, not enough disk space, not enough... excuses.)

THANK YOU to all of you, it's nice to know I'm not alone.  BTW
you can get good therapy cheaper than you can get a COBOL cranker
these days.  :)

James

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Jim River » Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:00:00


<snip>

Quote:

> I guess you could say this is our global Y2K group session, so I like it
> the way it is.

> Mike Echlin CP/SA

        Agree

JR

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by mike.echli » Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:00:00



> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:45:21 -0700, John Blackburn

> >It seems to me that today, 24th July 1997, it is irrelevant as to why

> >there is a Y2k problem.  It is here and we need to fix it.  And if we

> >spend all our time discussing why it happened, we will find that very

> >soon, there is no more time!  So let's stop wasting time arguing why
> >programmers in the (19)60's did what they did, and start discussing
> >ways of fixing the problem.

> >There may not be enough time left to fix all the systems, but let's
> try
> >hard to fix as many of the systems as we can to minimize the impact.
> >Then, after the year 2000 when all the systems that we fixed are
> >still running and the ones that we ran out of time to fix have
> failed,
> >we can sit around twiddling our thumbs discussing why we got into
> >this mess in the first place.

> >Cheers,
> >John Blackburn

> John,

> I agree with you 100% (or for some of us should that be 140%?).

> I think it's time we sub-divided this newsgroup. How about:

> comp.software.year.2000.insults
> comp.software.year.2000.doomngloom
> comp.software.year.2000.*
> comp.software.year.2000.humour (or .humor if you prefer)
> comp.software.year.2000.technical
> comp.software.year.2000.employment
> etc.

> For this posting? Well! Just consign me to:
> comp.software.year.2000.inane

> Time to get serious, people.

> Peter Nash, Bermuda
> "Lost in the Bermuda Triangle"

I do not agree with the split the NG post (I DO agree with the stop
finding fault.)
If all we talked about here was how to technically fix the problem, it
would be (Tell me if I am at all wrong)
1. look at code, all code, every piece of code you own, and look hard
for anything that uses the date.
2. check that use, is it Y2K compliant, (will it work after 1999?)(there
are a lot of things to look for here, but most will be company secrets
and you can't post them here anyway.)
3. Fix any problems, in context, to your standards, and to match other
fixes/working code.
4. Test. Test with date changed and data that has date changed.
5. repeate for next line of code.

Very boring, we are here to see how others are getting along, coping
with the stress, (Money helps this a lot, so does humour, as well as
rating the impact, and ranting, flaming, (I guess trying to say "it's
the fault of alll those old farts that got us into this mess" is some
peoples way of coping with the fact that they as managers will soon be
hung out to dry, suggestion, learn how to program..., )

I guess you could say this is our global Y2K group session, so I like it
the way it is.

Mike Echlin CP/SA

 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by David K. Brya » Wed, 30 Jul 1997 04:00:00




>> comp.software.year.2000.insults
>> comp.software.year.2000.doomngloom
>> comp.software.year.2000.*
>> comp.software.year.2000.humour (or .humor if you prefer)
>> comp.software.year.2000.technical
>> comp.software.year.2000.employment

   comp.software.year-2000.lou
 
 
 

Stop Finding Fault and Fix the problem!

Post by Phil Edwar » Wed, 30 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Herewith the complete lyrics of David Byrne's song "Big Business",
from _Songs from 'the Catherine Wheel'_. I listened to it last night
for the first time in ages, & saw this song in a whole new light!

Think you've had enough
Stop talking, help us get ready
Think you've had enough
Big business, after the shakeup

Think you've had enough
Stop talking, help us get ready
Think you've had enough
Big business, after the shakeup

Get ready! Get ready!
Stop talking, help us get ready
Stop!
--

Editor, NEWS/400.uk             +44 (0)161 929 0777

 
 
 

1. How to find correct DLLs and fix remote linkup problems...

The best way to do this is to POST ON A RELEVANT NEWSGROUP!

This newsgroup, comp.software.config-mgmt, is focused on issues
related to configuration management techniques and tools used on
software projects.  It is NOT a newsgroup for finding out why
your CONFIG.SYS isn't working right.

To get the answers you need, please post on something like
comp.hardware.* or comp.os.ms-* newsgroups.

--
                    GNAT = GNAT is Not an Ada Translator
==Ada 95 Booch Components: www.ocsystems.com/booch or www.dfw.net/~dweller==
Reality: Work, Work, Work, Guitar.         | Plugged: Fender Telecaster Deluxe
Fantasy: Guitar, Guitar, Guitar, Work(ha!) | Unplugged: Yamaha CG-150SA

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