Awards for development of build tool

Awards for development of build tool

Post by Bram Moolenaa » Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:30:21



WHAT IS AAP?

The Aap program is make on steroids. It does everything that other build
systems do, has a powerful script language build-in and has integrated
internet support.  You can use it to:

- Build a program, on multiple platforms and in several variants
- Download a file the moment it is needed
- Maintain a web site (Aap is used for the Vim web site)
- Download and install an application (like FreeBSD ports)
- Obtain a module from CVS, update files in CVS
- Generate and filter files
- And much more

Most of these things can be done with an Aap recipe of just a few lines.
Have a look at the examples: http://www.a-a-p.org/examples.html.

The Aap recipe works better than a Makefile in many ways:

- Uses signatures to avoid trouble with timestamps; restoring an old
   version of a source file causes recompiling
- Integrated support for up- and downloading
- Integrated support for CVS (other version control systems can be added)
- Python script can be used for more complicated tasks
- Reduces the need for shell scripts, improves portability
- Messages are brief, a log file contains the details
- Automatically figures out dependencies for C programs
- Simple syntax: mostly like a Makefile but avoids the need for line
   continuation backslashes, spaces in a file name are possible
- Good support for a project with multiple directories

Aap is written in Python. It runs on any Unix, MS-Windows and Mac OS X
system with Python 1.5 or later,

AWARDS

Aap version 1.0 has been released.  The next version should be even more
powerful, faster, reliable and simpler to use.  If you help making this
possible you will not only receive appreciation from Aap users, but have
a chance to make money as well!

        444 euro for the best contribution to the A-A-P project
        222 euro for the most useful patch for Aap or Agide
        111 euro for the brightest idea for the A-A-P project

THE RULES

- The "best contribution" can be anything that helps the progress of the
   A-A-P project or improves the usability of Aap and/or Agide.
- The "most useful patch" can be for fixing a long standing bug, adding
   support for a specific compiler, a port to another system, etc.
- The "brightest idea" is a suggestion for a useful addition to the
   A-A-P project or for improving Aap or Agide without the need for an
   actual implementation.
- Contributions are to be sent to the A-A-P-develop maillist.  No
   specific format is required.  Everybody contributing to A-A-P
   automatically becomes a potential award winner.
- You may submit as many times as you like. All contributions must go
   under the GNU GPL.
- The closing date is September 30, 2003.  The winners will be announced
   on the A-A-P web site in October 2003.
- The selection of the award winners will be done by Bram Moolenaar, the
   A-A-P project leader.
- The money is provided by the NLnet foundation.

WHAT IS THE A-A-P PROJECT?

A-A-P makes it easy to locate, download, build and install software. It
also supports browsing source code, developing programs, managing
different versions and distribution of software and documentation. This
means that A-A-P is useful both for users and for developers.

A-A-P currently consists of the Aap program and Agide, the A-A-P GUI
IDE.  Agide makes it possible for existing tools to work together. For
example: to use Vim with gdb for debugging, lookup remote documentation
with the cross referencer, preview a TeX file, etc.

Aap is now stable.  Agide is still in the development phase.

A-A-P is open source under the GNU GPL.

LINKS

Home page: http://www.a-a-p.org
Manual HTML: http://www.a-a-p.org/exec/index.html
Manual PDF: http://www.a-a-p.org/exec/exec.pdf
Maillists: http://www.a-a-p.org/maillist.html
Freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/a-a-p/

--
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///          Creator of Vim - Vi IMproved -- http://www.Vim.org          \\\
\\\              Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
  \\\  Help AIDS victims, buy here: http://ICCF-Holland.org/click1.html  ///

 
 
 

Awards for development of build tool

Post by Robert Vaz » Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:51:19


I never understood why opensource projects don't consider it spamming to
post single-message threads to newsgroups they don't read. Anyway, what
you do looks like CMake or Bakefile. Actually, there are 43 projects
including yours listed in Open Directory on this topic:

http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Build_Management/

 
 
 

Awards for development of build tool

Post by Bram Moolenaa » Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:16:31



> I never understood why opensource projects don't consider it spamming to
> post single-message threads to newsgroups they don't read. Anyway, what
> you do looks like CMake or Bakefile.

CMake and Bakefile only translate their input file into a Makefile.  You then
still need to use another make program to do the building.  This also means
you have all the limitations of a Makefile and need to use non-portable shell
commands. A-A-P has much more functionality.  You can also use Python code for
really powerful things.

 > Actually, there are 43 projects

Quote:> including yours listed in Open Directory on this topic:

> http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Build_Management/

Thanks for this link, I had not found this one yet.  I had made my own list of
tools, you can find it here: http://www.a-a-p.org/tools_build.html
 
 
 

Awards for development of build tool

Post by Robert Vaz » Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:31:55




>> I never understood why opensource projects don't consider it spamming to
>> post single-message threads to newsgroups they don't read. Anyway, what
>> you do looks like CMake or Bakefile.
> CMake and Bakefile only translate their input file into a Makefile.  You then
> still need to use another make program to do the building.  This also means
> you have all the limitations of a Makefile and need to use non-portable shell
> commands. A-A-P has much more functionality.  You can also use Python code for
> really powerful things.

Both CMake and Bakefile generate Visual C++ project files and Bakefile
is intended to generate other formats (Borland, Watcom, MinGW). While
CMake has internal scripting language, Bakefile is written in Python and
allows embedding Python expressions wherever variables are allowed.

I am not related to CMake not Bakefile, I just think that opensource is
strong in development tools and it is unreasonable to post announcements
about every single tool under the sun into this group.

 
 
 

Awards for development of build tool

Post by Bram Moolenaa » Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:44:20



> Both CMake and Bakefile generate Visual C++ project files and Bakefile
> is intended to generate other formats (Borland, Watcom, MinGW). While
> CMake has internal scripting language, Bakefile is written in Python and
> allows embedding Python expressions wherever variables are allowed.

For as far as I know, Bakefile only allows using Python for telling Bakefile
how to generate the Makefile.  You cannot use it for the actual building,
because the Python code does not end up in the generated Makefile.

Aap executes the build instructions itself, there is no translation or
generation of another file format.  This offers much more functionality and
control over the building. You also no longer need to depend on external
commands, thus the build instructions are far more portable.

The main reason for using Bakefile is when you want to generate Makefiles for
various compilers.  It was designed to do this for WxWindows, a GUI library.
Only the WxWindows maintainers need to use Bakefile, people using WxWindows
can continue using their own compiler's Makefile format.

All three use a new file format.  IMHO the Aap recipe still mostly looks like
a Makefile, which makes it easier for most people to understand what it does.

Quote:> I am not related to CMake not Bakefile, I just think that opensource is
> strong in development tools and it is unreasonable to post announcements
> about every single tool under the sun into this group.

I would think software engineers are interested in a new tool and especially
discussions triggered by it.

--
SOLDIER: Where did you get the coconuts?
ARTHUR:  Through ... We found them.
SOLDIER: Found them?  In Mercea.  The coconut's tropical!
                  "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY) PICTURES LTD


///          Creator of Vim - Vi IMproved -- http://www.Vim.org          \\\
\\\              Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
  \\\  Help AIDS victims, buy here: http://ICCF-Holland.org/click1.html  ///

 
 
 

1. Costs of Building/Maintaining Home Grown Tools vs. Third Party Tools

I am currently part of a committee at my company that is putting together the
proposal for our next generation of SCM tool.  However, I need some help from all you
net-folks out there regarding "home grown" vs. third party tools.

There is a camp within my company that is lobbying hard to keep the home grown tools and
all the associated support and development costs associated with them.

Does anyone out there have some hard numbers on how much (man/hours, dollars) it really
takes to support home grown tools, as opposed to third party tools?  FYI, my company is
involved in Systems Integration and custom development of software, and has roughly
700 people, and we would especially like to hear from companies with similar demographics.

If you could send me this information, I would be eternally grateful.  I will summarize
to this group if there is enough interest.  Thanks a lot.

        -Guy Martin

--
Guy W. Martin                     ---                 TRW Financial Systems

(510) 645-3019                    ---                 Oakland, CA 94612-3540 USA

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