Re; Perspective of Doom

Re; Perspective of Doom

Post by David Laros » Sat, 26 Jul 1997 04:00:00





> :>      A couple of points.  First we don't seem to have enough replies for a
> :>valid sample.  Second we don't have enough replies from people with
just
> :>a few years of experience.  Is this NG dominated by people with lots of
> :>experience?  Are there hordes of lurkers?  If you have only a year or
> :>two of experience, or none at all, please speak up.  I would truly like
> :>to know what you think.
> :>      JR
> I'm a none-at-all-experience lurker.

> I came to this NG when it first opened because it looked to
> be a good place to learn about the problem. I became a
> dedicated lurker when I discovered it satisfied that morbid
> curiousity that attracts people to train wrecks.

> I can only see two possibilities: Minor Inconvenience (1.5)
> or Catastrophe (so close to 5 let's just call it a 5).

> The problem with this problem is that nobody really knows
> for certain WHAT is going to happen. This uncertainty that
> makes the problem even more severe. If the general
> population does not know what to expect when things start to
> go bad, there's a very good chance that there will be
> widespread panic. And since the Bad Things will have
> happened to the people and agencies that are responsible for
> preventing and controlling widespread panic....

> Worst Case: 14th Century Europe ... on a global scale.

Interesting that you mention that...

The four*th century was a remarkable but tragic period, a time of
troubles with historical and astrological parallels to our own. <See:  'A
Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century,' by Barbara W. Tuchman, 1978,
Alfred A. Knopf>

I'm not an astrologer, but the Saturn-Uranus-Neptune conjunction of 1307 is
considered to be the astrological event that presaged a century of woe.
It was characterized by unenlightened leadership, exorbitant taxation, the
breakdown of social institutions, immorality, religious ferment and
persecution (including the slaughter of Jews), destruction of farms and
villages by bands of marauding mercenaries, peasant uprisings and anarchy.

What is known as the Little Ice Age, a period of extreme cold, began about
1307 and lasted until about 1700.  Famine devastated Europe in 1315-1316 as
a shorter growing season and incessant rains caused crops to fail.  People
were reduced to eating dead bodies, in some cases even their own children.
Corruption in the Church reached new levels as Pope Clement V removed the
papacy from Rome to Avignon, France in 1309.  The Hundred Years War between
France and England broke out in 1337 and the expansion of the Ottoman
Empire into Europe began in 1345.

And, of course, there was the bubonic plague, which from 1347 to 1351 wiped
out as much as half the population of England and at least one-third of the
population of Europe.

Saturn-Uranus-Neptune conjunctions are extremely rare and are considered to
be a _very_ bad portent.  Between 1988 and 1993, there occured multiple
conjunctions of these three planets: Saturn-Uranus, Saturn-Neptune and
Uranus-Neptune, as well as a Saturn-Neptune-Uranus-Mars conjunction on Feb.
23, 1988.

However, in a universe of free will, nothing is inevitable.

There is coming a time of severe "testing," possibly triggered by Y2K
failures, but I believe that what comes to pass will be ameliorated or
intensified by the state of humanity's consciousness.  If we are prepared
to deal with massive system failures, we'll be OK and most of us will
survive.  If not,  then not as many will survive.


Quote:> Cory: Severity 4; Experience 29 years.

> Where 4 means,

> 2 months of rice and dried beans, just in case.
> a gallon of bleach
> 2 KW generator and 20 gallons of fuel, just in case.
> renew ham license. Get rig out of ba*t.
> a couple grand in 20's.
> couple month's of prescription meds.
> firewood (it'll be winter but winter can be mild)
> Only 25% in stock, mutual funds, bonds.  75% in CDs, savings.

David:  Severity 3.5 - 4.5;  Experience:  not a computer professional, but
FWIW, can program  some in COBOL & C++.

In today's complex "infrastructure," a good-sized bump in the economic road
could cause more than a few months' inconvenience.  In some areas, it may
mean gang rule, martial law, summary executions, famine, plague -- oh,
wait...that's what DC is like now, yes?

Seriously, it would be wise to have a two-years supply of non-perishable
food and a fairly reliable way to cook it without electricity or piped-in
gas; all of Cory's suggestions; and a twenty-pound bag of silver (dimes,
quarters...), some gold, some weapons -- and be ready to move other paper
assets to useful or traditional things ( diamonds, gasoline, shoes... )

Nah,  it's not gonna happen.  We'll all be OK.  Right?

Right??!??

God, guns, gold and grub.  Keep 'em all close & handy.

David

 
 
 

Re; Perspective of Doom

Post by David K. Brya » Sat, 26 Jul 1997 04:00:00



>I'm not an astrologer, but the Saturn-Uranus-Neptune conjunction of 1307 is
>considered to be the astrological event that presaged a century of woe.
>It was characterized by unenlightened leadership, exorbitant taxation, the
>breakdown of social institutions, immorality, religious ferment and
>persecution (including the slaughter of Jews), destruction of farms and
>villages by bands of marauding mercenaries, peasant uprisings and anarchy.

OK, so 1997 in Washington DC was a clone of 1307 in Europe.

Quote:>Saturn-Uranus-Neptune conjunctions are extremely rare and are considered to
>be a _very_ bad portent.  Between 1988 and 1993, there occured multiple
>conjunctions of these three planets: Saturn-Uranus, Saturn-Neptune and
>Uranus-Neptune, as well as a Saturn-Neptune-Uranus-Mars conjunction on Feb.
>23, 1988.

Damn!  You're right.  1988 was a reeeeallly bad year.  
Only worked 10.5 weeks.

Quote:>However, in a universe of free will, nothing is inevitable.

Wrong.  It's inevitable that Lou will post again.

 
 
 

Re; Perspective of Doom

Post by Michael J. Ban » Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:00:00


: >Seriously, it would be wise to have a two-years supply of
: non-perishable>food and a fairly reliable way to cook it without
: electricity or piped-in>gas; all of Cory's suggestions; and a twenty-pound
: bag of silver (dimes,>quarters...), some gold, some weapons -- and be
: ready to move other paper>assets to useful or traditional things (
: diamonds, gasoline, shoes... )
: >>Nah,  it's not gonna happen.  We'll all be OK.  Right?
: >Right??!??
: >God, guns, gold and grub.  Keep 'em all close & handy.
: >David
:
: I once had some next door neighbors that were members of the
: Latter Day Saints church.  This was many years ago, but they
: believed they were supposed to keep a large qty of food stored
: in their houses, non-perishible freeze dryed stuff that would keep
: practically forever, for some future calamity.  Maybe this is it.
: Do members of LDS still practice this doctrine?
Yes, indeed.
I don't want to get into seriously off-topic religious discussions or anything,
but in answer to this, yes, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints are encouraged to be prepared for times of necessity or disaster.  That
includes having 72-hour kits for short-term events (came in handy for me when
the power was out for 2 days in part of L.A. after the Northridge earthquake),
as well as having longer-term storage, where possible or reasonable.

We're encouraged to have up to a year's supply of: basic foodstuffs; supply of
other necessities like cloth for clothing; fuel (for cooking and/or driving),
where permissible; and, to the extent possible, money.  (Of course, that
last one is the toughest...;-> )

: Could we perhaps take a lesson from them?  Are there any Mormons that
: would like to contribute a posting?

Even the Boy Scouts will tell you that being prepared is a good thing.  One
of my friends had an extremely hard month or two financially recently, and
basically had to live off their food storage for that time.  (Not exactly
fun, but a very good test of your preparedness level.  Look around your
house:  how long could you last with the foodstuffs you have on hand right
now?  (second level: now the power is off.  How does that change your answer?))

The church has some quite good resources to help people assess what things they
might need, and there are a bunch of companies that offer supplies or
organizational help.  For one that IMO goes a little over the top, have a look
at <URL:http://www.beprepared.com/>.

Anyway, enough digression from talking about computer systems, but since
someone asked I thought it'd be good to provide an answer.
Probably any more in-depth discussion of these issues would be better taken
to email, since it's not directly on-topic for this newsgroup.

Michael J. Banks

 
 
 

Re; Perspective of Doom

Post by David Laros » Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>> Seriously, it would be wise to have a two-years supply of
>> non-perishable food and a fairly reliable way to cook it without
>> electricity or piped-in gas; all of Cory's suggestions; and a
twenty-pound
>> bag of silver (dimes, quarters...), some gold, some weapons -- and be
>> ready to move other paper assets to useful or traditional things (
>> diamonds, gasoline, shoes... )
> I once had some next door neighbors that were members of the
> Latter Day Saints church.  This was many years ago, but they
> believed they were supposed to keep a large qty of food stored
> in their houses, non-perishible freeze dryed stuff that would keep
> practically forever, for some future calamity.  Maybe this is it.
> Do members of LDS still practice this doctrine?

Yes.  And, AAMF, they make their facilities available for non-Mormons to
use.  Every district has a "Bishop's Storehouse" where one can buy
long-term storage food or bring your own to seal into airless containers
(which they will sell you, then help you to do the work [in many cases].)
Contact your local LDS church.

Quote:> Could we perhaps take a lesson from them?  

Wisdom is being prepared.  It's impossible to be totally prepared for
everything, but it is not too difficult to weigh the possibilities and
react accordingly.  Y2K meltdown? Nuclear terrorists?  Race riots?  Weather
catastrophies?  These are very real, potential threats.  What'cha gonna do?

David  "I LIKE brown rice 3X a day"  Larose


 
 
 

Re; Perspective of Doom

Post by David Laros » Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>> Seriously, it would be wise to have a two-years supply of
>> non-perishable food and a fairly reliable way to cook it without
>> electricity or piped-in gas; all of Cory's suggestions; and a
twenty-pound
>> bag of silver (dimes, quarters...), some gold, some weapons -- and be
>> ready to move other paper assets to useful or traditional things (
>> diamonds, gasoline, shoes... )
> I once had some next door neighbors that were members of the
> Latter Day Saints church.  This was many years ago, but they
> believed they were supposed to keep a large qty of food stored
> in their houses, non-perishible freeze dryed stuff that would keep
> practically forever, for some future calamity.  Maybe this is it.
> Do members of LDS still practice this doctrine?

Yes, and AAMF, each district has a "Bishop's Storehouse" which sells
long-term storage food and has facilities for packaging it in airless
containers.  They don't advertise, but they allow the public to use their
facilities.  They will sell you what they have or allow you to package your
own -- and in most cases, help you to do it.
Contact your local LDS church.

Quote:> Could we perhaps take a lesson from them?  

Wisdom is being prepared.  It's impossible to be totally prepared for
everything, but it's not too hard to weigh the possibilites and react
accordingly.  Y2K meltdown?  Nuclear terrorists?  Weather catastrophies?
Race riots?  Failure of the economy?
These and worse could come to pass.  What'cha gonna do?

David  "I LIKE brown rice 3X a day"  Larose


 
 
 

Re; Perspective of Doom

Post by Francis A. Ney, J » Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:00:00



> I once had some next door neighbors that were members of the
> Latter Day Saints church.  This was many years ago, but they
> believed they were supposed to keep a large qty of food stored
> in their houses, non-perishible freeze dryed stuff that would keep
> practically forever, for some future calamity.  Maybe this is it.

This is a direct result of their early history, when Mormons were flogged from
pillar to post from their start in upstate New York to their eventual
homestead in Utah.  Chalk this up to lessons that were hard-learned.

Two state governors in the 19th century literally declared open season on them
and authorized anyone to kill Mormons be they man, woman or child.  One called
up the state militia specifically for that purpose .  So much for the first
amendment.  Go look at the web page for Nauvoo, IL for more information.

If memory serves, this is not an absolute requirement for membership in good
standing, just encouraged as a really, really, really, really good idea(tm).  
I expect the Chief Elder in Salt Lake to have a "revelation" RSN if the rumors
I hear about proposed "hoarding" and "stockpiling" laws are even half true.

Quote:> Do members of LDS still practice this doctrine?

Depends on the denomination.  (Yes, there are at least two sects of LDS,
perhaps more, I don't keep up with it.)

Quote:> Could we perhaps take a lesson from them?  

Most definitely.

Quote:> Are there any Mormons that would like to contribute a posting?

I dunno, are there?  Lots of Mormons in IS here at the IRS. . .

---
Frank Ney  WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A  N4ZHG  LPWV  NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page  http://www.veryComputer.com/~croaker/batfabus.html
West *ia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
NOTICE: Flaming email received will be posted to the appropriate newsgroups
- --
"The conduct of our Nation's affairs always demands that public servants
discharge their duties under the Constitution and laws of this Republic with
fairness and a proper spirit of subservience to the people whom they are sworn
to serve.  Public servants cannot be arbitrarily selective in their treatment
of citizens, dispensing equity to those who please them and withholding it
from those who do not.  Respect for the law can only be fostered if citizens
believe that those responsible for implementing and enforcing the law are
themselves acting in conformity with the law."
        - William F. Downes, United States District Judge
          Carol Ward v. United States
          79 AFTR2d Par. 97-964 No. 95-WY-810-WD  (2 Jun 1997)

 
 
 

1. Perspective of Doom (Warning: De-Lurk Alert)

Oh, come on.  Java is hot, it's happening!

---
Frank Ney  WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A  N4ZHG  LPWV  NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page  http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
NOTICE: Flaming email received will be posted to the appropriate newsgroups
- --
"The conduct of our Nation's affairs always demands that public servants
discharge their duties under the Constitution and laws of this Republic with
fairness and a proper spirit of subservience to the people whom they are sworn
to serve.  Public servants cannot be arbitrarily selective in their treatment
of citizens, dispensing equity to those who please them and withholding it
from those who do not.  Respect for the law can only be fostered if citizens
believe that those responsible for implementing and enforcing the law are
themselves acting in conformity with the law."
        - William F. Downes, United States District Judge
          Carol Ward v. United States
          79 AFTR2d Par. 97-964 No. 95-WY-810-WD  (2 Jun 1997)

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