Help me With The Math

Help me With The Math

Post by Paul Miln » Tue, 28 Dec 1999 04:00:00



"In a conventional power plant, conveyor belts haul 20,000 tons of coal a
day into a blast furnace."

=====================

It is reported that the average coal train is 100 cars long, or a mile long,
and each car holds 100 tons.

It seems that the average coal-fired facility  burns 20,000 tons of coal per
day or the equivalent of 200 carloads of coal per day; two one mile long
trainloads of coal.

Most power plants have stated that they have a thirty day inventory of fuel.
That would mean that they have the equivalent of 30X200 cars of coal on
hand. In other words, they maintain that they have what amounts to  60 one
mile long train loads of coal.

Where could they possibly store that amount of coal?

Four years ago, I spent over a year working on the construction of the
Clover, *ia, coal fired plant. I never thought to ask how much coal was
in that big pile. But, I can tell you this..... There is no way on this
green earth that it is even close to ten one mile long trainloads of coal.

I am not tlking about second hand knowledge. I am talking about first hand
experience.

If I approximated the size of the coal yard, it would be about, oh, 150
yards square.

When the dozers were spreading out the coal, it was to a depth, of about
oh...maybe twenty feet.

There is no possible way that that yard could even begin to hold thirty days
of coal much less the entire premises.

http://www.veryComputer.com/

--
Paul Milne

Clinton: "I did not  have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky"

bks: "It was not overt lying. It was overgeneralization for rhetorical
purposes."

 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by ra d » Tue, 28 Dec 1999 04:00:00


PM posted <snip>"In a conventional power plant, conveyor belts haul
20,000 tons of coal a day into a blast furnace.".....erratta...Clover
Station....eratta....<snip>

pardon me while I stop laughing...hahahahahahahah...ok finished...
hahahahah..oops...ha..almost done... there...ok...while I listen to a
plaintiff Doomster cry....pleeeezee Hep me with the math....(I ewe
stubby taht eye cuddnt eevn spl stewdnt an gnow eye r won..A.E.N)...

WTF should we hep you?, using your own system apparently you Deserve
what you get if you can't do math by now.....

ok, I know you're claiming area51 * w.r.t. coal storage
capacity and the LYING corporate *S....to terrify the ASHOLE
POLLYS gettin on the Flaming Dead Train....

that aside; well, I _could_ hep you with  the math  and (even better)
confirm with a good sailing buddy who is coming to dinner on Rollover
Eve (or even call him before hand)...we've discussed all manner of power
making/regulation  stuff as he heads the capacity planning operation at
a large NYS utility that has a number of coal fired plants...we use the
stacks on one for reference when racing offshore...nice of them to build
them so high and put those strobe lights on them....

VAPower's cola fired Clover Station is 850MW with both units running and
uses 70 cars/day (300t/hr x24hr = 7,200 tons/day);

Navgen's coal fired plant (largest west of the Mississippi) has 2,250 MW
( 3 units of 750 MW each) and uses 25,000 tons per day with 3 units
running......

your reference piece (from Cleveland source) is too vague/general to be
very usefull to a _particular_ (Clover Station) facility....but why am I
surprised by this ??

get better data before you start trying to spin your web....until then
put this cone shaped thing on your head....you know the drill....

//

 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by bob8.. » Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:00:00




Quote:> "In a conventional power plant, conveyor belts haul 20,000 tons of
coal a
> day into a blast furnace."
> .......
> There is no possible way that that yard could even begin to hold
thirty days
> of coal much less the entire premises.
> Paul Milne

 I worked in coal fields at a power plant in Tampa in the 1970's. The
coal was continuously compacted by bulldozers in order to eliminate the
potential for combustion. Therefore the coal in the fields has much
less air in it than the coal laying in rail cars. I saw loose piles of
coal in a packed state and it was a significantly flatter pile than one
would think. There is a lot more coal in the fields than meets the eye.

   BOB8256

  "Prepare as you would for a winter storm" - THAT NEVER ENDS!!

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by flw » Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:00:00



Quote:

> WTF should we hep you?, using your own system apparently you Deserve
> what you get if you can't do math by now.....

OK here's the advanced math:

1. No coal delivery = No Power
2. No oil delivery   = No Power
flw

 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by ra d » Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:00:00


maybe this will help:

 www.brookings.com/ctic/

go from there to coal train/plant 'experts'...

//

 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by ra d » Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:00:00


flw posted <snip>OK here's the advanced math:
1. No coal delivery = No Power
2. No oil delivery ? = No Power<snip>

hereabouts Hydro = 30 %; nukes 20 %....

here at the lake we have n/g wells (common in this whole region) on the
farm and yes they have driven pumps/generators in the past...

P.S. since you are such a math wizard please hep PM...he's got that
order of magnitude thingy again chewing his neurons...
//

 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by Bob Broc » Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:00:00





>> WTF should we hep you?, using your own system apparently you Deserve
>> what you get if you can't do math by now.....

>OK here's the advanced math:

>1. No coal delivery = No Power
>2. No oil delivery   = No Power
>flw

Forgot nukes didn't we?
 
 
 

Help me With The Math

Post by Slide » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00




Quote:> "In a conventional power plant, conveyor belts haul 20,000 tons of

coal a day into a blast furnace."

 =====================

      well, mebbe in your world they do but, here on earth, blast
      furnaces are more usually found in steel plants.  You're talking
      here about coal fired boilers ?......yes ?  and what's a
      'conventional' power plant ? non-nuclear I suppose but the
      fuel consumption of the plant must surely depend on it's design,
      it's size and the loading upon it.

Quote:> Most power plants have stated that they have a thirty day inventory
> of fuel.

           got a cite on that pigboy ?

Quote:> That would mean that they have the equivalent of 30X200 cars
> of coal on hand. In other words, they maintain that they have what
> amounts to  60 one mile long train loads of coal.
> Where could they possibly store that amount of coal?

           numbers worrying you pig farmer ?  hell it's no big thing

Quote:> Four years ago, I spent over a year working on the construction of the
> Clover, *ia, coal fired plant. I never thought to ask how much

coal was in that big pile. But, I can tell you this..... There is no
way on this green earth that it is even close to ten one mile long
trainloads of coal. I am not tlking about second hand knowledge. I am
talking about first hand  experience.

Quote:> If I approximated the size of the coal yard, it would be about, oh,
> 150 yards square.

> When the dozers were spreading out the coal, it was to a depth, of >
> about oh...maybe twenty feet.

> There is no possible way that that yard could even begin to hold
> thirty days of coal much less the entire premises.

        well, the estimates you give here would account for about
        90,000 tons.  how long that would last would depend on a range
        of factors but frankly that is irrelevant.  In today's
        business environment the guy who keeps a huge inventory sitting
        (paid for) at his plant is the guy who's gonna come off second
        best.  I guess that 'just in time' techniques haven't yet
        reached the pig farming community but, rest assured, they're
        in daily use in the real world. Far better to have your
        supplier maintain the inventory don't you think ? could well
        be that, with local suppliers, the end user might hold zero
        stock, examples are numerous and increasing.

        So, just another example of your paranoia.  If'n they *had*
        30 days stock you'd be whining why they didn't have 60.

        slider
        ---

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