Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Olaf » Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:09:03



Hi,

I'm trying to find out what the best way is to archive and backup
prepress-datafiles. I want to hear from some people the good and bad
things that happened to them. Anybody archived their precious data to
CDROM and later discovered that the data was unreadable after a year or
so? Or did you archive to optical discs and the optical disks were
unreadable when you really needed the data? Or what happened to your
DAT-tapes, DVD or any other mass-storage? Anybody heard of the new Sony
AIT-3 Tape drives with a storage of 100 Gb uncompressed (1:1) and 260 Gb
compressed (2.6:1). It can backup a whopping 90 Gb. in approx. 1 hour...
Is it a smart thing to buy such a device or stay with the good old
-ahum- cdrom or DAT's???

Greetz,
Olaf.

 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Lee Blevi » Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:31:39


It was 1995 and the PPC's had just come out.

I outfitted a prepress department with 8100's loaded up and the new 8150
server.

To avoid waiting to read tapes I put a DAT two of the workstations in
addition to the one that came in the Mac server.

One day an operator comes to me and says he can't read a tape.

We try it in each tape drive and it can't be read.

We try some more tapes. They can't be read.

What happened was the heads had started to drift in the tape drive in
the server and now it can't read a tape it had written more than a month
prior. Seems the drifting was slow but steady.

I had to inform the sales department that all of the archives written in
the past year were unreadable.

I never found out how the customer base reacted, the place went Chapter
7 a few weeks later.


> Hi,

> I'm trying to find out what the best way is to archive and backup
> prepress-datafiles. I want to hear from some people the good and bad
> things that happened to them. Anybody archived their precious data to
> CDROM and later discovered that the data was unreadable after a year or
> so? Or did you archive to optical discs and the optical disks were
> unreadable when you really needed the data? Or what happened to your
> DAT-tapes, DVD or any other mass-storage? Anybody heard of the new Sony
> AIT-3 Tape drives with a storage of 100 Gb uncompressed (1:1) and 260 Gb
> compressed (2.6:1). It can backup a whopping 90 Gb. in approx. 1 hour...
> Is it a smart thing to buy such a device or stay with the good old
> -ahum- cdrom or DAT's???

> Greetz,
> Olaf.


 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Derek Tre » Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:27:01


Hi Olaf,

I've never used tape of any description in our shop so I can't give you
any info on the issues associated with the various standards and formats
in general use other than to confirm Lee's horror story, which the
feedback I get from various people suggests is not that uncommon with
DAT tape ;-(

I can tell you that we've been burning work to CDR for around 4 years
and have not had lost a single CD yet. The oldest disk I think we have
here was burned in early 1998. It's still good today. So unless someone
has another tale to tell I would say the CDR is about as reliable as it
gets. Of course, the downside is that 650MB is not much these days and
if you need to archive 10's of gigs a week it's not an ideal method!
For the future we're looking at DVD-R but the drives are still a bit
pricey and the format is still a bit too new (not to mention the slow
write speeds) to make a viable option just yet. But unless the industry
moves the goalposts once again I think DVD-R  will be good alternative
to Tape for the smaller outfits.

Best wishes,
--
Derek Tree

 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Michael Caufma » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:07:11


Just moved from DLT (15/30) to AIT-2 (50/130)
- used this for DLT 5 years with minimal problems (a few bad areas on tape)
Know of the AIT-3 drives, and they are impressive but very pricey at this
time, they the AIT-3 drives have a better thouroghput then the AIT-2 drives.
AIT-2 = 6 - 12 mb/s (or 22 - 44 gigs an hour)
AIT-3 = 12 - 24 mb/s (or 44 - 90 gigs an hour)

I guess your decision should be based on the time you wish to spend
archiving / dearchiving jobs.
We need the higher capacity and speed, so CD-ROM or DVD is not an option.

Nothing against the Cumulus or Extensis catalog products, but you really
gain power with a product like Dantz Retrospect. It may be a little duanting
for some people to properly set-up and script this program, but once you
have it mastered - you save tons of time with automated back-ups.

Of course when you back-up or archive a job, you WILL always make at least 2
copies of the data, and store one set off site for those times when you have
a media error -- Right ??  If you don't, you WILL have a problem someday.

_mike caufman


> Organization: XS4ALL Internet BV
> Newsgroups: comp.publish.prepress
> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:09:03 +0100
> Subject: Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

> Hi,

> I'm trying to find out what the best way is to archive and backup
> prepress-datafiles. I want to hear from some people the good and bad
> things that happened to them. Anybody archived their precious data to
> CDROM and later discovered that the data was unreadable after a year or
> so? Or did you archive to optical discs and the optical disks were
> unreadable when you really needed the data? Or what happened to your
> DAT-tapes, DVD or any other mass-storage? Anybody heard of the new Sony
> AIT-3 Tape drives with a storage of 100 Gb uncompressed (1:1) and 260 Gb
> compressed (2.6:1). It can backup a whopping 90 Gb. in approx. 1 hour...
> Is it a smart thing to buy such a device or stay with the good old
> -ahum- cdrom or DAT's???

> Greetz,
> Olaf.

 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Michael Sulliv » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 02:00:41



> I'm trying to find out what the best way is to archive and backup
> prepress-datafiles. I want to hear from some people the good and bad
> things that happened to them. Anybody archived their precious data to
> CDROM and later discovered that the data was unreadable after a year or
> so? Or did you archive to optical discs and the optical disks were
> unreadable when you really needed the data? Or what happened to your
> DAT-tapes, DVD or any other mass-storage? Anybody heard of the new Sony
> AIT-3 Tape drives with a storage of 100 Gb uncompressed (1:1) and 260 Gb
> compressed (2.6:1). It can backup a whopping 90 Gb. in approx. 1 hour...
> Is it a smart thing to buy such a device or stay with the good old
> -ahum- cdrom or DAT's???

I run tape to keep a consistent backup each night and keep an awful lot
of work up on the server, and also archive all finished jobs to CD-R
every month.  I have had problems (though not many) with optical and
CD-R media going bad over time (usually after 4-5 years), so we write
two copies of everything.  

I've lost data on DAT drives before.  We had a major server crash in May
of '97 with totally unrecoverable hard disks, and most of my tapes were
NG.  If we hadn't also had optical archives we would have lost half of
our old work, instead of just the couple weeks that hadn't yet been
archived, and a some jobs here and there on opticals that had trouble.

For a long time, I just bagged the tape backup and made sure we had
duplicate copies of anything that hadn't been burned.  Then a year or
two ago, at the recommendation of people on the ASIP list, I replaced
those DAT drives with an AIT.  I've never yet lost a verified backup on
the AIT.  OTOH, I've had trouble getting my AIT drive to write
consistently, so I'm getting more religious about burning CD-Rs and
keeping backups of unburned stuff on individual workstations.  I think I
need a new backup server (SCSI problems), but I haven't done all the
necessary troubleshooting to really know.

Anyway, I'd say no backup medium is perfect.  If you really can't afford
to lose anything, make two copies.  In generally, I've been happy with
CD-R, though you end up with a lot of disks that way.

Michael

--
Michael Sullivan
Business Card Express of CT             Thermographers to the Trade

 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Derek Tre » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:20:12




Quote:>I run tape to keep a consistent backup each night and keep an awful lot
>of work up on the server, and also archive all finished jobs to CD-R
>every month.  I have had problems (though not many) with optical and
>CD-R media going bad over time (usually after 4-5 years), so we write
>two copies of everything.

Just curious, Michael. What make and type were the CD-R disks that
failed? Not Verbatim by any chance?

FWIW I did some exhaustive tests a couple of years ago when disks were
made for 6x and 8x drives and found that there were some quite major
differences between them. Consequently we've used TDK ever since and not
lost a single disk. Of course, lasers have got a lot better and more
powerful since the early days and buffer underuns are pretty much a
thing of the past.  Drives are also a significant factor in the
equation. IME Plextors are the most reliable.

TTFN,
--
Derek Tree

 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Rod Webste » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:01:15


Every week night night at 11:00pm, we have a scheduled back up of all
workstations to an AIT drive using ArcServe on our NT server. This also
backs up the Mac's. We use 5 tapes on a rotational sytem so that they are
overwritten each week. We always take last nigh'ts backup off site. Prior to
the AIT we used DAT but after our second DAT drive failed and an IT guy said
that you are lucky if a DAT or DLT makes it out of warranty, I started
looking round for a better option!. The AIT has been here for a couple of
years now and has never had a hiccup! It seems like excellent technology
with the following key points:
1. Tape directory is kept on a chip in the tape, not on the tape. No stretch
reading and re-reading ths bit of tape.
2. Helical heads like video tape eliminate the need to clean heads. Heads
don't get dirty.
3. Sony offer a lifetime guarantee on the media (only if you live in the US,
I don't)

Fortunately,  the six month old hard disk with 9 gb of customer's files
failed just after I got the AIT backup routine working so I don't have a
horror story.... except that the guy I bought the drive from went broke
after I returned it and I never got the  manufacturer's warranty honored.

We burn to two CD's to form a permanent archive of our Artwork and take one
off site on a regular basis. The other stays on site for retrieval. Some
date back to 1996 and seem to be still OK

Rod Webster


Quote:> Hi,

> I'm trying to find out what the best way is to archive and backup
> prepress-datafiles. I want to hear from some people the good and bad
> things that happened to them. Anybody archived their precious data to
> CDROM and later discovered that the data was unreadable after a year or
> so? Or did you archive to optical discs and the optical disks were
> unreadable when you really needed the data? Or what happened to your
> DAT-tapes, DVD or any other mass-storage? Anybody heard of the new Sony
> AIT-3 Tape drives with a storage of 100 Gb uncompressed (1:1) and 260 Gb
> compressed (2.6:1). It can backup a whopping 90 Gb. in approx. 1 hour...
> Is it a smart thing to buy such a device or stay with the good old
> -ahum- cdrom or DAT's???

> Greetz,
> Olaf.

 
 
 

Gimme your best data-loss horror stories...

Post by Thomas Rohrich » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:24



Quote:> Hi,

> I'm trying to find out what the best way is to archive and backup
> prepress-datafiles.

For the last year or so, I've been using removable IDE hard drives for
backups using Windows 2000 native backup utility. I've found this to be
cheap, fast, and reliable.

--
Thomas Rohricht - CO2 Creative
Forward-thinking graphics and design
http://www.co2creative.com


be read, unless they get lost in a sea of SPAM.

 
 
 

1. What's your X10 horror story?

Well, I know we all have those little stories of X10 projects gone
bad..  Mine usually consist of my wife not quite agreeing with me on
the fact that things like the Vacuum Cleaner "really" need to be set
to come on and off at scheduled intervals..  ;-)

Well, thought some of you might be interested in sharing them..

My latest?

Well, I ordered an X10 Pro XPS light switch to control the flourescent
lighting in our kitchen..  The day the unit arrived, I went to
installing it right away.  The wife mentioned some comment about me
being like a kid in a candy store everytime I get a new X10 gizmo.
Anyhow, the installation went well and shortly afterwards I had my
kitchen lights (Finally) X10 controllable...  However, after about 3
of those loud "Click" on/off cycles, something suddenly went wrong..
It seems that there was a hot wire within the electrical box that had
become bare in one spot, and after a few of the relay clicks jolting
it into just the right position, you guessed it - blamo!

All in all, no harm done..  The switch survived, and the breaker
popped so there was no damage except for about a 2 foot round black
ring of soot around the wall switch.  :-)   I tracked down the culprit
wire (The actual cut being hardly noticable) and snipped it off..
Cleaning off the "explosion ring" wasn't quite so easy.  Heheh..

Of course, the only fallout was that for about 3 days after this the
wife was convinced that every X10 module in the house was an H-Bomb
waiting to explode..  She wouldn't even touch the palm-pad for about a
week after for fear of having the entire house go up in a mushroom
cloud..   I finally convinced her that it was safe, and that the
bare-wire was a fluke, but she really wasn't much for my X10 gizmo's
for a week or two..  :)

Glad that's over..  I've got more appliance modules in the mail!

---
Mark,  Oshawa, Ontario, Canada


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