Font in table cells?

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:08:18



I expect it's because there's been a fair gap since I did any real
work on my site at
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/
and I'm forgetting the basics, but...

I have some text I've pasted from an external source onto a page. It
apppears fine, in the usual navy blue colour and font style and size I
regard as normal body font. And the 3 boxes top left read:
Normal    (default font)     Normal

I then insert a table. If I now drag appropriate lines of that text
into cells of my table, it changes to plain black, regular and its
size increases.

1. Why does it change?
2. With it selected in the cell, why do those 3 boxes still read
Normal    (default font)     Normal ?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Steve Easto » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:29:31


When copying and pasting text from an external source,
paste it into notepad and then copy from notepad to
your page.  This removes all formatting from the text.

hth

--
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
..............................with a computer

I expect it's because there's been a fair gap since I did any real
work on my site at
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/
and I'm forgetting the basics, but...

I have some text I've pasted from an external source onto a page. It
apppears fine, in the usual navy blue colour and font style and size I
regard as normal body font. And the 3 boxes top left read:
Normal    (default font)     Normal

I then insert a table. If I now drag appropriate lines of that text
into cells of my table, it changes to plain black, regular and its
size increases.

1. Why does it change?
2. With it selected in the cell, why do those 3 boxes still read
Normal    (default font)     Normal ?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:07:24




>> I expect it's because there's been a fair gap since I did any real
>> work on my site at
>> http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/
>> and I'm forgetting the basics, but...

>> I have some text I've pasted from an external source onto a page. It
>> apppears fine, in the usual navy blue colour and font style and size I
>> regard as normal body font. And the 3 boxes top left read:
>> Normal    (default font)     Normal

>> I then insert a table. If I now drag appropriate lines of that text
>> into cells of my table, it changes to plain black, regular and its
>> size increases.

>> 1. Why does it change?
>> 2. With it selected in the cell, why do those 3 boxes still read
>> Normal    (default font)     Normal ?

>Terry,

>Nice web page ... but I notice that you specified your table's a fixed
>pixel width.  Taht by definition will make fonts inside the cells "fit"
>since there is no variability.

>The more user friendly way to do this is to make the tables flow by
>specifing percentage widths, then your web page will fit on the user's
>screen.

>On my laptop, your web pages does not fit full width.  I have only
>1024x768 resolution.  I use full-creen Mozilla, and about 1/4 to 1/3 of
>my screen is used up with my "bookmark favourites".  You page doesnt'
>fit.  If you had used "flowing tables", the page would fit.

>I mention this because this is the problem reported here. First, tables
>weren't used, and second, it's important they be "flowing" tables.  I
>know that's not the technical term, but that's what works.

>Here is how I would recommend it be done.  I change the tables to flow
>(by giving their widths in percentage, not fixing in pixels) and I
>changed the graphic horizontal bar to a html horizontal ba wich will
>flow.  When you open this page in a browser, note how when you change
>the size of the browser window the who page will "flow" properly.

[snip code]

Thanks, Rob. Actually, some of my tables are dynamic (not fixed in
size), but I found that others needed to be fixed to give me the
control I wanted. I'll experiment with the revision you sent me and
report back.

But I don't think that issue has anything to do with the problem I
raised. The table in which I'm having the text formatting problem is
not that home page. I've now made a copy of it, in its present scrappy
state, at
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_copy(1).htm

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:15:52



>When copying and pasting text from an external source,
>paste it into notepad and then copy from notepad to
>your page.  This removes all formatting from the text.

>hth

Thanks, but that's how I did place the text. On pasting, it is
displayed in FP 2000 *formatted*. Actually I used my own text editor,
TextPad, but Notepad gives the same result. I expect that depends on
how your HTML is set up and what's in your style sheet

In any case, that wasn't the focus of my question! I want to preserve
formatting when I paste it from elsewhere on a page into a table. The
table and text in question is at the end of this page which I've
copied here in its working state:
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_copy.htm

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:21:55


That URL I gave should be as shown below:

{snip]

Quote:>But I don't think that issue has anything to do with the problem I
>raised. The table in which I'm having the text formatting problem is
>not that home page. I've now made a copy of it, in its present scrappy
>state, at

http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_copy.htm

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Steve Easto » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:28:29


Terry,

It appears to me that the "inline style" is over riding
the font's you have specified in your
style sheet.!!

--
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
..............................with a computer


>When copying and pasting text from an external source,
>paste it into notepad and then copy from notepad to
>your page.  This removes all formatting from the text.

>hth

Thanks, but that's how I did place the text. On pasting, it is
displayed in FP 2000 *formatted*. Actually I used my own text editor,
TextPad, but Notepad gives the same result. I expect that depends on
how your HTML is set up and what's in your style sheet

In any case, that wasn't the focus of my question! I want to preserve
formatting when I paste it from elsewhere on a page into a table. The
table and text in question is at the end of this page which I've
copied here in its working state:
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_copy.htm

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Ronx » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:52:12


Terry,
This relates to your other post regarding nav-bar font sizing.  Your CSS
sheet does not specify a font size or colour for TD, thus anything placed in
a table cell, and not "wrapped" in some other HTML element, such as <p></p>,
will take on the default font size and colour specified by the browser.
(Your <p> tags do have colour and size specified.)

The usual practice is to make an entry in the CSS sheet like:
P TD TH {font ......}
but since you are using relative font sizing (good) you will find some text
will appear smaller than expected if you insert a <p> tag in a table cell...
but that's another problem.

HTH

Ron
--
Reply only to group - all emails will be deleted unread.

Quote:> I expect it's because there's been a fair gap since I did any real
> work on my site at
> http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/
> and I'm forgetting the basics, but...

> I have some text I've pasted from an external source onto a page. It
> apppears fine, in the usual navy blue colour and font style and size I
> regard as normal body font. And the 3 boxes top left read:
> Normal    (default font)     Normal

> I then insert a table. If I now drag appropriate lines of that text
> into cells of my table, it changes to plain black, regular and its
> size increases.

> 1. Why does it change?
> 2. With it selected in the cell, why do those 3 boxes still read
> Normal    (default font)     Normal ?

> --
> Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Rob Schneide » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:57:26


Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Terry Pinnell <terrypinDEL...@dial.pipexTHIS.com> wrote:

> That URL I gave should be as shown below:

> {snip]

>>But I don't think that issue has anything to do with the problem I
>>raised. The table in which I'm having the text formatting problem is
>>not that home page. I've now made a copy of it, in its present scrappy
>>state, at

> http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_copy.htm

I started at top, inspecting and changing HTML as I went which for
whatever seemed better to change. described all changes below (see html
at bottom).  The root cause of problem, as I understand it, marked with
** and I think I fixed.

- changed table height for main table from 519 pixels to nothing
(unchecked the box).
- changed the graphics bars to horizontal bars (to allow table to flow).
  Graphics bars will never get narrower than they are.  too restrictive.
- applied H2 style to Mentoring Questionnaire
- table at b1 changed to 80%  width (from a specific pixel width)
- don't know affect, but removed from 3 the <span style=""> and </span>
- removed the <tbody> and </tbody> pair ... can't see purpuse so removed
to see affect.  nothing happened.
- ** text in table B3 does not have <p> style, so that's why formatting
not applied. I reformatted all by adding <p> </p> pairs in each cell. by
this, picked up style from your stylesheet.
- removed all hard coded table and cell heights.
- removed all <span> and </span> pairs ... don't know how got there nor
purpose.

========================

<html><head><title>Mentoring Practice Questionnaire</title>

<style type="text/css">
<!--
body         { font-family: Times, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-color: #F5F5E7;
                background-image: url('images/cnvbkgnd.jpg'); margin: 0px }
-->
</style>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="questionaire1_copy_files/cupod_css1.css"></head>
<body>

<p> </p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"
style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111">
   <tbody><tr>
     <td width="116" height="147"><img border="0"
src="questionaire1_copy_files/logo_smoothed111b.gif" width="116"
height="111"></td>
     <td height="147">
       <h1>Mentoring Questionnaire
       <br>
     </h1>
     </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
     <td width="116" height="89"></td>
     <td height="89">
       <hr>
       <h2>Mentoring Practice Survey by Hend Finlay</h2>
     </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
     <td width="116" valign="top" height="150"><b><font size="2">
     <!--webbot bot="Navigation"
       s-type="siblings" s-orientation="vertical" s-rendering="text"
       b-include-home="TRUE" b-include-up="FALSE" u-page s-target
--></font></b></td>
     <td valign="top" height="150">

<p> This questionnaire is part of my research on best practice in
Mentoring.  I would like to have your opinion on what makes a good
mentor and how you judge your mentoring.  <br>
The results of this questionnaire will be published on the CUPOD Web site:
</p>

<p><a
href="http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/">http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/</a>
</p>

<p>In anticipation, thank you for completing it and sending it back to me.
</p>

<p>
Hend Finlay, Claverham Community College.
</p>

<hr>

<h2 align="center">&nbsp;Mentoring Questionnaire</h2>

<form method="POST" action="--WEBBOT-SELF--" onsubmit="" name="Mentor
Questionnaire">
<!--webbot bot="SaveResults" u-file="C:\Temp\_private\form_results.txt"
s-format="TEXT/CSV" s-label-fields="TRUE" b-reverse-chronology="FALSE"
s-email-format="TEXT/PRE" b-email-label-fields="TRUE"
b-email-subject-from-field="FALSE" s-email-subject="CUPOD Mentor
Questionnaire Results" s-builtin-fields
s-email-address="he...@cupod-mentoring.com" startspan --><input
type="hidden" name="VTI-GROUP" value="0"><!--webbot bot="SaveResults"
endspan i-checksum="61262" -->

<p align="left">Name:
<br>
<input type="text" name="T1" size="45"></p>

<p align="left">School:
<br>
<input type="text" name="T2" size="45"></p>

<p align="left">Currriculum Subject:
<br>
<input type="text" name="T3" size="28"></p>

<p align="left" class="orangeonly">A. Your experience (free text, but as
concise as possible
please):</p>

<p align="left">1. How long have you been teaching for?
<br>
<input type="text" name="T5" size="20"></p>

<p align="left">2. Please list any extra responsibilities you hold
within your Department/Faculty.
<br>
<textarea rows="2" name="S3" cols="65"></textarea></p>

<p align="left">3. Please list any extra responsibilities you hold in
the school.
<br>
<textarea rows="2" name="S4" cols="65"></textarea></p>

<p align="left">4. How many years have you been mentoring?
<br>
<input type="text" name="T8" size="20"></p>

<p align="left">5. Which training programme(s) are you familiar with?
<br>
(PGCE, GTP, etc.)
<br>
<input type="text" name="T9" size="33"></p>

<p align="left">6. Why did you become a mentor?
<br>
<textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="65"></textarea></p>

<p align="left">A7- What have been the three most rewarding aspects of
mentoring?
<br>
<textarea rows="2" name="S2" cols="65"></textarea></p>

<p align="left" class="orangeonly">B- Your perception of Mentoring</p>

<p align="left">
B1- Which aspects of the Mentor's role are the most important to you?
<br>
<br>
Please tick any of the following which you feel are important:</p>

<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="80%"
style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111">
<tbody><tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">Advise
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T12" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Be a role model
</p>

</td>
<td align="center">
<input type="text" name="T13" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Be available
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T14" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Be a counsellor
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T15" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Collaborate
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T16" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Direct
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T17" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Demonstrate
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T18" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Encourage
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T19" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Guide
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T20" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Help
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T21" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Monitor
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T22" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Motivate
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T23" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Offer alternatives
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T24" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Oversee
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T25" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Observe
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T26" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Praise
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T27" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>

<p align="left">
Rescue
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T28" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>

<p align="left">
Share knowledge
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T29" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>

<p align="left">
Suggest
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T30" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Nurture
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T31" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="left">

<p align="left">
Assess  trainee's progress
</p>

</td>
<td align="center"><input type="text" name="T32" size="8"></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>

<p align="left">&nbsp;</p>

<p align="left">2- Please describe your mentoring style in three or four
words:
<br>
<input type="text" name="T33" size="58"></p>

<p align="left">3-
Which of the following activities do you use in your mentoring; and how
often?
<br></p>

<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
<td height="33"><p>Activity</p></td>
<td><p>Often</p></td>
<td width="50"><p>Some-times</p></td>
<td><p>Rarely</p></td>
<td><p>Never</p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><p>Structured meeting at a set time/day</p></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T34" size="8"></td>
<td width="50"><input type="text" name="T35" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T36" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T37" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><p>Set an agenda beforehand</p></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T34" size="8"></td>
<td width="50"><input type="text" name="T35" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T36" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T37" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><p>Lesson observation</p></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T34" size="8"></td>
<td width="50"><input type="text" name="T35" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T36" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T37" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><p>Demonstrate activities to Trainee</p></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T34" size="8"></td>
<td width="50"><input type="text" name="T35" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T36" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T37" size="8"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><p>Lesson planning</p>

</td>
<td><input type="text" name="T34" size="8"></td>
<td width="50"><input type="text" name="T35" size="8"></td>
<td><input type="text" name="T36" ...

read more »

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:07:08



>I started at top, inspecting and changing HTML as I went which for
>whatever seemed better to change. described all changes below (see html
>at bottom).  The root cause of problem, as I understand it, marked with
>** and I think I fixed.

>- changed table height for main table from 519 pixels to nothing
>(unchecked the box).
>- changed the graphics bars to horizontal bars (to allow table to flow).
>  Graphics bars will never get narrower than they are.  too restrictive.
>- applied H2 style to Mentoring Questionnaire
>- table at b1 changed to 80%  width (from a specific pixel width)
>- don't know affect, but removed from 3 the <span style=""> and </span>
>- removed the <tbody> and </tbody> pair ... can't see purpuse so removed
>to see affect.  nothing happened.
>- ** text in table B3 does not have <p> style, so that's why formatting
>not applied. I reformatted all by adding <p> </p> pairs in each cell. by
>this, picked up style from your stylesheet.
>- removed all hard coded table and cell heights.
>- removed all <span> and </span> pairs ... don't know how got there nor
>purpose.

[snip code]

Many thanks, Rob, that's much appreciated. I'm going to have to step
through it very carefully, probably tonight/tomorrow.

Just before I saw your reply, I too found those weird span tags and
mso stuff. The *original* source was a Word doc, and I reckon I must
have pasted straight into FP. I quickly cleared the text from the
resulting table, then placed it outside by pasting from a text editor.
But the original mso stuff seems to have stuck in there!

I took your code and pasted it into a new page
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_rob.htm
and it looks fine. I was surprised, because in FP, in Normal, Preview
and Preview in Browser, it looked *nothing* like intended. (Times
font, no logo, etc.) But after publishing, apart from the text not yet
being finished, it looks similar to the stage I'm at in
http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_terry.htm

I'm also baffled why, when I go to your version online and View
Source, I still see that mso and saon stuff.
(""mso-fareast-font-family: Times New Roman; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;
mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">3-.....etc".)
Yet there's no trace of it here in FP!

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:24:37



>Many thanks, Rob, that's much appreciated. I'm going to have to step
>through it very carefully, probably tonight/tomorrow.

>Just before I saw your reply, I too found those weird span tags and
>mso stuff. The *original* source was a Word doc, and I reckon I must
>have pasted straight into FP. I quickly cleared the text from the
>resulting table, then placed it outside by pasting from a text editor.
>But the original mso stuff seems to have stuck in there!

>I took your code and pasted it into a new page
>http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_rob.htm
>and it looks fine. I was surprised, because in FP, in Normal, Preview
>and Preview in Browser, it looked *nothing* like intended. (Times
>font, no logo, etc.) But after publishing, apart from the text not yet
>being finished, it looks similar to the stage I'm at in
>http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_terry.htm

Ah, I think I must have been looking at a cached version earlier.
Trying again, I see your page looks online the same as it does in FP.
And the mso rubbish is gone. Presumably the reason it no longer looks
like the page I designed is because you're not picking up my CSS?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Rob Schneide » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:36:32


*snip*

Quote:> Ah, I think I must have been looking at a cached version earlier.
> Trying again, I see your page looks online the same as it does in FP.
> And the mso rubbish is gone. Presumably the reason it no longer looks
> like the page I designed is because you're not picking up my CSS?

Ah, the cache.  Been there done tat.

I didn't changae the CSS ref.  Left it the same.  When I was doing my
editing, since the CSS was accesible across the interent, it worked even
in my FrontPage. Hence I could see the problem/differences.

in the copy you published:

http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_rob.htm
<style type="text/css">
<!--
body         { font-family: Times, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-color: #F5F5E7;
                 background-image: url('images/cnvbkgnd.jpg'); margin: 0px }
-->
</style>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="questionaire1_copy_files/cupod_css1.css">

whereas http://www.cupod-mentoring.com/questionaire1_terry.htm is:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="cupod_css1.css">

I don't know why different.  I didn't hcange it. Get rid of the special
style in _rob.htm, and apply your style.  should be ok.

Re pasting from Word into Front Page. Repeat after me:  "Never paste
directly from Word into FrontPage HTML".  Sorry.  I use Word 97 and it
just adds too much complexity.  Maybe the newer versions better. Dunno.

 
 
 

Font in table cells?

Post by Terry Pinnel » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:43:10



>Terry,
>This relates to your other post regarding nav-bar font sizing.  Your CSS
>sheet does not specify a font size or colour for TD, thus anything placed in
>a table cell, and not "wrapped" in some other HTML element, such as <p></p>,
>will take on the default font size and colour specified by the browser.
>(Your <p> tags do have colour and size specified.)

>The usual practice is to make an entry in the CSS sheet like:
>P TD TH {font ......}
>but since you are using relative font sizing (good) you will find some text
>will appear smaller than expected if you insert a <p> tag in a table cell...
>but that's another problem.

>HTH

>Ron

Thanks a lot, Ron, I'll pursue that approach in the morning.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

 
 
 

1. table within table cell: cell borders showing

I have formatted many pages with a table making up cells to enter text,
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line.  I have been unsuccessful in changing color settings for tables,
cells, borders, or backgrounds.

Netscape 4.06 doesn't show these lines around the cell.  Can anyone help
me?

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