FP tries to be to clever...

FP tries to be to clever...

Post by Juha Boreniu » Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:00



Hi,
I've been losing my already confused mind because of FP. Problem is that it
doesn't trust the code I write and changes it without warning. I have to use
html-editing mode because of asp and also because I like to have total
control over the code.

FP goes grazy because it doesn't understand what I wrote, so it keeps adding
<table> tags or removes closing tags and so on. Problem is worse when I try
to use includes to get some parts of page layout. If I start my table at
include, FP adds its own <table> -tag to page probably thinking:" Gosshh,
this guy is stupid not starting the table. Maybe its better if I fix his
code and don't tell him..."

Well, is there some way to configure FP not to touch the code under ANY
circumstances what so ever?

Regards,
Juha Borenius

 
 
 

FP tries to be to clever...

Post by Kevin Spence » Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:00


You'd be better off learning how to code your ASP so that it doesn't cause
these problems in FrontPage. If you always use the HTML view to edit your
pages, you might as well use Notepad (which, btw, you have the option to do
in FrontPage).

I wrote an article about this for the Wrox Publishing ASP Today online web
site (http://www.asptoday.com). You might want to check it out.

HTH,

--
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
Site Design by TAKempis
Web Application Development with Microsoft Technologies
http://www.takempis.com
Discussion Group Available!


Quote:> Hi,
> I've been losing my already confused mind because of FP. Problem is that
it
> doesn't trust the code I write and changes it without warning. I have to
use
> html-editing mode because of asp and also because I like to have total
> control over the code.

> FP goes grazy because it doesn't understand what I wrote, so it keeps
adding
> <table> tags or removes closing tags and so on. Problem is worse when I
try
> to use includes to get some parts of page layout. If I start my table at
> include, FP adds its own <table> -tag to page probably thinking:" Gosshh,
> this guy is stupid not starting the table. Maybe its better if I fix his
> code and don't tell him..."

> Well, is there some way to configure FP not to touch the code under ANY
> circumstances what so ever?

> Regards,
> Juha Borenius


 
 
 

FP tries to be to clever...

Post by Juha Boreniu » Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:00



Quote:> You'd be better off learning how to code your ASP so that it doesn't cause
> these problems in FrontPage. If you always use the HTML view to edit your

The whole idea seems weird to me. IMHO there's already enough different
"standards" and limitations in web-design to cope with. So I want my tools
to be on my side - not to add any extra difficulties. I don't understand the
philosophy, why there can't be a simple on/off -button:"Never change my
code".

Quote:> pages, you might as well use Notepad (which, btw, you have the option to
do
> in FrontPage).

That's what I do. But without that little button FP is just very heavy and
difficult to use text-editor.

I do this for living and I have other tools too. So I don't mind so much.
But it is also reason why I can never recommend my customers to use FP for
updating pages. That can't be the point?

Regards,
Juha Borenius

 
 
 

FP tries to be to clever...

Post by Stephen Travi » Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:00


FP2000 does allow you to tell it not to change your code. (Tools...PageOptions...HTMLSource...preserve existing HTML)




> > You'd be better off learning how to code your ASP so that it doesn't cause
> > these problems in FrontPage. If you always use the HTML view to edit your

> The whole idea seems weird to me. IMHO there's already enough different
> "standards" and limitations in web-design to cope with. So I want my tools
> to be on my side - not to add any extra difficulties. I don't understand the
> philosophy, why there can't be a simple on/off -button:"Never change my
> code".

> > pages, you might as well use Notepad (which, btw, you have the option to
> do
> > in FrontPage).

> That's what I do. But without that little button FP is just very heavy and
> difficult to use text-editor.

> I do this for living and I have other tools too. So I don't mind so much.
> But it is also reason why I can never recommend my customers to use FP for
> updating pages. That can't be the point?

> Regards,
> Juha Borenius

 
 
 

FP tries to be to clever...

Post by Kevin Spence » Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:00


You need to read my article.

With ASP, you interpserse scripting and HTML in the page, generally.
Therefore, while the generated page may be perfectly valid HTML, the HTML
alone in the page (without the scripting activated) can be perfectly BAD.
How do you display bad HTML in a WYSIWYG editor? The editor's WYSIWYG
interface interprets HTML in much the same way as a browser. FrontPage tends
to "correct" the existing HTML, in order to make it "work." It has no way of
knowing how the scripting will affect it, since the scripting may affect it
in any number of ways, depending upon conditions (hence, "dynamic").

Also, in the article, I talk about why I always use FrontPage, for one of
the very reasons you described: The client can't edit the page without being
an ASP expert if you don't. If you follow FrontPage's "rules" you can design
ASP pages that work beautifully in FP Editor, and take half as long to
create. I do this for a living too, and all I do is ASP.

Finally, in the article, I describe solutions to various related problems,
how to write your code and your HTML so that it works in FrontPage. It's not
hard to do.

--
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
Site Design by TAKempis
Web Application Development with Microsoft Technologies
http://www.takempis.com
Discussion Group Available!




> > You'd be better off learning how to code your ASP so that it doesn't
cause
> > these problems in FrontPage. If you always use the HTML view to edit
your

> The whole idea seems weird to me. IMHO there's already enough different
> "standards" and limitations in web-design to cope with. So I want my tools
> to be on my side - not to add any extra difficulties. I don't understand
the
> philosophy, why there can't be a simple on/off -button:"Never change my
> code".

> > pages, you might as well use Notepad (which, btw, you have the option to
> do
> > in FrontPage).

> That's what I do. But without that little button FP is just very heavy and
> difficult to use text-editor.

> I do this for living and I have other tools too. So I don't mind so much.
> But it is also reason why I can never recommend my customers to use FP for
> updating pages. That can't be the point?

> Regards,
> Juha Borenius