Arithmetic compression patent

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Sachin Ga » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:58:15



Hi,

Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson Patented?

Sachin Garg. [India]
http://sachingarg.cjb.net
http://go.to/sachingarg

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:20:56



Quote:> Hi,

> Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson Patented?

A gooder question be, with my wording see, if ye be read, why be need, such
questions you bark, to us you impart?

E.g. why are you asking this question?  If you need a drop in general
purpose codec use Zlib, if you actually need a entropy encoder use a range
coder.

Of course this would require you todo homework and actually read this
newsgroup...

Tom

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by SCOTT19U.ZIP_G » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:37:20




Quote:>Hi,

>Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson Patented?

  From what I have heard some think existing patents not only cover
all current compressors but any future compressors that you care to
invent since many patients think they cover the idea of compression.
  The fact is the bigger the company and the higher paid the lawyers
if you write code and try to sell it. The big company can claim they
have a patient that covers it. In reality the existence of a patient
makes little difference its who owns the best lawyers or judges and
has the most politcal influence. Actaully you can fight it in court
until you run out of money. Then its over unless you have more money
than the company wishing to steal your idea.

David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip old version
My Crypto code http://radiusnet.net/crypto/archive/scott/
My Compression code http://bijective.dogma.net/
**TO EMAIL ME drop the roman "five" **
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
 made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged.
As a famous person once said "any cryptograhic
system is only as strong as its weakest link"

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:50:51





> >Hi,

> >Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson Patented?

>   From what I have heard some think existing patents not only cover
> all current compressors but any future compressors that you care to
> invent since many patients think they cover the idea of compression.

<snip>

Yeah... right all big companies shame compression... thats why most hugely
used products use zlib right?  What he is trying todo is cast doubt on the
validity of anyone elses ideas but his own.

HIS INVENTION IS A NEAT INVENTION.

However, his invention is not the be-all of the world, and that makes him
angry.  If you don't do what he says he will be sure to let you know.

Hey David, why don't you allow room in your mind for the idea, the very
notion, the concept, the line of thinking, that more than one person in the
world could have a good idea.  Your invention is neat and perhaps has
usefulness.  However, not every *y task in the world requires your
invention.  Some people just want entropy encoders.  Being bijective is not
a requirement.

Tom

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by SCOTT19U.ZIP_G » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:00:00








>> >Hi,

>> >Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson Patented?

>>   From what I have heard some think existing patents not only cover
>> all current compressors but any future compressors that you care to
>> invent since many patients think they cover the idea of compression.

><snip>

>Yeah... right all big companies shame compression... thats why most
>hugely used products use zlib right?  What he is trying todo is cast
>doubt on the validity of anyone elses ideas but his own.

>HIS INVENTION IS A NEAT INVENTION.

>However, his invention is not the be-all of the world, and that makes
>him angry.  If you don't do what he says he will be sure to let you
>know.

>Hey David, why don't you allow room in your mind for the idea, the very
>notion, the concept, the line of thinking, that more than one person in
>the world could have a good idea.  Your invention is neat and perhaps
>has usefulness.  However, not every *y task in the world requires
>your invention.  Some people just want entropy encoders.  Being
>bijective is not a requirement.

>Tom

  Tom your being an * again. I never mention bijection here
and I don't have or belive in software patents. I think they are
not only a bad idea but hold scince back. For many uses zlib may
be a good thing. However if they tried to CASH in I would bet that
one of the big companies would sue for patent infringement. And
before you go off on another misdirected rant. Yes I belive zlib
sucks for use in encyrption systems since it adds data to help an
attacker break the encyrption porgram. That how over does not
diminish its use for other things.

David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.veryComputer.com/
My Crypto code http://www.veryComputer.com/
My Compression code http://www.veryComputer.com/
**TO EMAIL ME drop the roman "five" **
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
 made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged.
As a famous person once said "any cryptograhic
system is only as strong as its weakest link"

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Jose Commin » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:06:24


                Personally that is not what I read into David's post - I certainly feel
strongly about algorithm patents (one might as well patent addition).
        Certainly off-topic this but IMHO all these personal attacks (from various
candidates) not only are shameful and degrading but also leave the parties
involved in disgrace and far less to be taken seriously.  It is a lot easier
to do online than in real life, isn't it?

Regards,
                Jose.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:50:51 +0000, Tom St Denis wrote





>>> Hi,

>>> Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson Patented?

>> From what I have heard some think existing patents not only cover
>> all current compressors but any future compressors that you care to
>> invent since many patients think they cover the idea of compression.

> <snip>

> Yeah... right all big companies shame compression... thats why most hugely
> used products use zlib right?  What he is trying todo is cast doubt on the
> validity of anyone elses ideas but his own.

> HIS INVENTION IS A NEAT INVENTION.

> However, his invention is not the be-all of the world, and that makes him
> angry.  If you don't do what he says he will be sure to let you know.

> Hey David, why don't you allow room in your mind for the idea, the very
> notion, the concept, the line of thinking, that more than one person in the
> world could have a good idea.  Your invention is neat and perhaps has
> usefulness.  However, not every *y task in the world requires your
> invention.  Some people just want entropy encoders.  Being bijective is not
> a requirement.

> Tom

--

Looks like we're in for a bad spell of wether.

==============================================================
 Posted with Hogwasher. For a free Test Drive click on:
     http://www.veryComputer.com/
==============================================================

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:08:16



Quote:>   Tom your being an * again. I never mention bijection here
> and I don't have or belive in software patents. I think they are
> not only a bad idea but hold scince back. For many uses zlib may
> be a good thing. However if they tried to CASH in I would bet that
> one of the big companies would sue for patent infringement. And
> before you go off on another misdirected rant. Yes I belive zlib
> sucks for use in encyrption systems since it adds data to help an
> attacker break the encyrption porgram. That how over does not
> diminish its use for other things.

First off, "zlib" is patent free.  Many people use it in COMMERCIAL
software.  aka  Quake3.

Second, you're little crypto rant has been shown time and time again to be
invalid and off-topic [specially in comp.compression where I first posted
this! why did you cross post it?]

ZLIB adds headers ontop of a deflate stream so you can recover from invalid
streams properly.  The idea is to detect the errors not just pass them on.

Tom

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by SCOTT19U.ZIP_G » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:40:31




Quote:>First off, "zlib" is patent free.  Many people use it in COMMERCIAL
>software.  aka  Quake3.

  You brought up the ad for zlib and injected it in something
it need not be. Your the one off on a wild rant. Sorry to hear
its in Commeriacal software where people paying for it. Yes
I know the authors intended it to be patent free. Only time will
tell if the big boys decide otherwise and attempt to claim some
obsurce patent is violated.

David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip old version
My Crypto code http://radiusnet.net/crypto/archive/scott/
My Compression code http://bijective.dogma.net/
**TO EMAIL ME drop the roman "five" **
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
 made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged.
As a famous person once said "any cryptograhic
system is only as strong as its weakest link"

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by SCOTT19U.ZIP_G » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:49:34




Quote:>          Personally that is not what I read into David's post - I
>          certainly feel
>strongly about algorithm patents (one might as well patent addition).
>     Certainly off-topic this but IMHO all these personal attacks (from
>     various
>candidates) not only are shameful and degrading but also leave the
>parties involved in disgrace and far less to be taken seriously.  It is
>a lot easier to do online than in real life, isn't it?

>Regards,
>          Jose.

  Your correct. I put Tommy in a kill file for a reason. I guess
I use to take seriously his personnal attacks. They always seem to
come out of the blue. Like his last attack on bijective compression.
I guess it back in for 3 months. Maybe Tommy will learn somthing
in the next 3 months but I doubt he is capable of learning from me
do to his hatred so to keep the flow of personnle attacks lower
I will not rspond to his constant off topic insults. It makes both
Tommy and me look like fools. I won't put King in the same file but
I will also try to limit my responses to him. Some how at least King
seems to have a theoritical grasp of the topic. Propably far better
then me in the tradtional view of compression so at least its nice
to see his point of view even though I disagree with it.

>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:50:51 +0000, Tom St Denis wrote





>>>> Hi,

>>>> Is the Arithmetic compression algorithm used by Mark Nelson
>>>> Patented?

>>> From what I have heard some think existing patents not only cover
>>> all current compressors but any future compressors that you care to
>>> invent since many patients think they cover the idea of compression.

>> <snip>

>> Yeah... right all big companies shame compression... thats why most
>> hugely used products use zlib right?  What he is trying todo is cast
>> doubt on the validity of anyone elses ideas but his own.

>> HIS INVENTION IS A NEAT INVENTION.

>> However, his invention is not the be-all of the world, and that makes
>> him angry.  If you don't do what he says he will be sure to let you
>> know.

>> Hey David, why don't you allow room in your mind for the idea, the
>> very notion, the concept, the line of thinking, that more than one
>> person in the world could have a good idea.  Your invention is neat
>> and perhaps has usefulness.  However, not every *y task in the
>> world requires your invention.  Some people just want entropy
>> encoders.  Being bijective is not a requirement.

>> Tom

David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.veryComputer.com/
My Crypto code http://www.veryComputer.com/
My Compression code http://www.veryComputer.com/
**TO EMAIL ME drop the roman "five" **
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
 made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged.
As a famous person once said "any cryptograhic
system is only as strong as its weakest link"
 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:56:18





> >First off, "zlib" is patent free.  Many people use it in COMMERCIAL
> >software.  aka  Quake3.

>   You brought up the ad for zlib and injected it in something
> it need not be. Your the one off on a wild rant. Sorry to hear
> its in Commeriacal software where people paying for it. Yes
> I know the authors intended it to be patent free. Only time will
> tell if the big boys decide otherwise and attempt to claim some
> obsurce patent is violated.

Um, sure ok.

Tom

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:57:39





> >          Personally that is not what I read into David's post - I
> >          certainly feel
> >strongly about algorithm patents (one might as well patent addition).
> >     Certainly off-topic this but IMHO all these personal attacks (from
> >     various
> >candidates) not only are shameful and degrading but also leave the
> >parties involved in disgrace and far less to be taken seriously.  It is
> >a lot easier to do online than in real life, isn't it?

> >Regards,
> >          Jose.

>   Your correct. I put Tommy in a kill file for a reason. I guess
> I use to take seriously his personnal attacks. They always seem to
> come out of the blue. Like his last attack on bijective compression.
> I guess it back in for 3 months. Maybe Tommy will learn somthing
> in the next 3 months but I doubt he is capable of learning from me
> do to his hatred so to keep the flow of personnle attacks lower
> I will not rspond to his constant off topic insults. It makes both
> Tommy and me look like fools. I won't put King in the same file but
> I will also try to limit my responses to him. Some how at least King
> seems to have a theoritical grasp of the topic. Propably far better
> then me in the tradtional view of compression so at least its nice
> to see his point of view even though I disagree with it.

Just because I don't use your ideas doesn't mean I don't get them.

When will you get that through your head?  You are not the only person in
the world with ideas.

Tom

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:59:32



Quote:> --
> SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"

At least I don't have typos in my signature line.  :-)

Tom

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Jose Commin » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:10:09


On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:18 +0000, Tom St Denis wrote





>>> First off, "zlib" is patent free.  Many people use it in COMMERCIAL
>>> software.  aka  Quake3.

>> You brought up the ad for zlib and injected it in something
>> it need not be. Your the one off on a wild rant. Sorry to hear
>> its in Commeriacal software where people paying for it. Yes
>> I know the authors intended it to be patent free. Only time will
>> tell if the big boys decide otherwise and attempt to claim some
>> obsurce patent is violated.

> Um, sure ok.

> Tom

                One need only to look at the GIF fiasco, where Unisys sat quiet about the
LZW patent until years after.  I reckon one of the directors needed a new car
or wanted Compushare shares cheap - of course, this is wild speculation ;o)

Regards,
                Jose.

--

Looks like we're in for a bad spell of wether.

==============================================================
 Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only:
     http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html
==============================================================

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Jose Commin » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:11:04


On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:10:09 +0000, Jose Commins wrote

> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:18 +0000, Tom St Denis wrote





>>>> First off, "zlib" is patent free.  Many people use it in COMMERCIAL
>>>> software.  aka  Quake3.

>>> You brought up the ad for zlib and injected it in something
>>> it need not be. Your the one off on a wild rant. Sorry to hear
>>> its in Commeriacal software where people paying for it. Yes
>>> I know the authors intended it to be patent free. Only time will
>>> tell if the big boys decide otherwise and attempt to claim some
>>> obsurce patent is violated.

>> Um, sure ok.

>> Tom

>            One need only to look at the GIF fiasco, where Unisys sat quiet about the
> LZW patent until years after.  I reckon one of the directors needed a new
> car
> or wanted Compushare shares cheap - of course, this is wild speculation ;o)

> Regards,
>            Jose.

                Compushare?  Argh, I meant Compuserve!

Regards,
                Jose.

--

Looks like we're in for a bad spell of wether.

==============================================================
 Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only:
     http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html
==============================================================

 
 
 

Arithmetic compression patent

Post by Tom St Deni » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:32:07



> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:18 +0000, Tom St Denis wrote





> >>> First off, "zlib" is patent free.  Many people use it in COMMERCIAL
> >>> software.  aka  Quake3.

> >> You brought up the ad for zlib and injected it in something
> >> it need not be. Your the one off on a wild rant. Sorry to hear
> >> its in Commeriacal software where people paying for it. Yes
> >> I know the authors intended it to be patent free. Only time will
> >> tell if the big boys decide otherwise and attempt to claim some
> >> obsurce patent is violated.

> > Um, sure ok.

> > Tom

> One need only to look at the GIF fiasco, where Unisys sat quiet about the
> LZW patent until years after.  I reckon one of the directors needed a new
car
> or wanted Compushare shares cheap - of course, this is wild speculation

;o)

Um, yeah but the patent existed, it was just not enforced.

Tom

 
 
 

1. Patent-free arithmetic compression algorithm ?

     Does there exist some efficient arithmetic compression
     algorithm that is not patented ? I currently use
     qm-coder for coding zerotrees, but it would be nice
     to find a coder of equivalent performance that is
     not patented.

--

==-- GSM +358-40-5035001 -=- http://cray.tuug.utu.fi/~phoenix/ --==

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