Alcatel chipset ADSL modems, Routers, MAC's etc. and PPoE vs DHCP

Alcatel chipset ADSL modems, Routers, MAC's etc. and PPoE vs DHCP

Post by Carl Lacke » Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:00:00



I have a question about ISP's and MAC usage.

I am with BellSouth and on DHCP.  They require the MAC be
registerd by user
account.  To change modems or modem/router combo, one must have
the tech
support change the MAC in their database.  The update migrates out
to the CO,
they say anywher from 2 minutes to 2 hours.

Experiences seem to indicate the MAC is used for user / circut
authentication
at DHCP Lease time.

I have some confusion with the DHCP method and PPoE / PPoA.

I have concluded that the MAC is not used with PPoE.  Is that
correct?

If so, then registering the MAC would no longer be an issues.

What method does PPoE use  for issuing IP's?  Is it also DHCP?

If Yes Then Do
  Doesn't PPoE use userid/password for authentication of
something?
  Ccould the ISP still use a MAC for authentication too?
  No wonder I'm asking questions!
End

My main focus is troubleshooting a failure.  Experience shows that
SYNC can
exist but no surf.  One can hypethosize several scenerios where
the hardwar
could fail and do this.  Since the common troubleshooting approach
in
situations like that is to swap out components, maybe with a
friends
hardware, having to get the MAC changed is a real issue.  Not only
that,
several incidents of typos when tech keyed in the new MAC have
been posted
herein.  Any time one has an outage, one would like to know that
is is "them"
and not one's own hardware before opening a trouble ticket.  I
would like to be able to take my modem/router over to a working
friend and just swap it into his working setup.

We really need to develop some workable approaches to
troubleshooting this
new technology.

--
****************************************************************************

PLEASE NOTE: If replying by e-mail remove the "defender." from my
e-mail
address. It has been added to keep my correct e-mail address from
usenet
postings to avoid autobots from adding my e-mail address to junk
mail lists.
****************************************************************************

 
 
 

Alcatel chipset ADSL modems, Routers, MAC's etc. and PPoE vs DHCP

Post by Carl Lacke » Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Boy! Do I ask good questions or what?

Carl Lackey still looking for answers


> I have a question about ISP's and MAC usage.

> I am with BellSouth and on DHCP.  They require the MAC be
> registerd by user
> account.  To change modems or modem/router combo, one must have
> the tech
> support change the MAC in their database.  The update migrates out
> to the CO,
> they say anywher from 2 minutes to 2 hours.

> Experiences seem to indicate the MAC is used for user / circut
> authentication
> at DHCP Lease time.

> I have some confusion with the DHCP method and PPoE / PPoA.

> I have concluded that the MAC is not used with PPoE.  Is that
> correct?

> If so, then registering the MAC would no longer be an issues.

> What method does PPoE use  for issuing IP's?  Is it also DHCP?

> If Yes Then Do
>   Doesn't PPoE use userid/password for authentication of
> something?
>   Ccould the ISP still use a MAC for authentication too?
>   No wonder I'm asking questions!
> End

> My main focus is troubleshooting a failure.  Experience shows that
> SYNC can
> exist but no surf.  One can hypethosize several scenerios where
> the hardwar
> could fail and do this.  Since the common troubleshooting approach
> in
> situations like that is to swap out components, maybe with a
> friends
> hardware, having to get the MAC changed is a real issue.  Not only
> that,
> several incidents of typos when tech keyed in the new MAC have
> been posted
> herein.  Any time one has an outage, one would like to know that
> is is "them"
> and not one's own hardware before opening a trouble ticket.  I
> would like to be able to take my modem/router over to a working
> friend and just swap it into his working setup.

> We really need to develop some workable approaches to
> troubleshooting this
> new technology.

> --
> ****************************************************************************

> PLEASE NOTE: If replying by e-mail remove the "defender." from my
> e-mail
> address. It has been added to keep my correct e-mail address from
> usenet
> postings to avoid autobots from adding my e-mail address to junk
> mail lists.
> ****************************************************************************

--
****************************************************************************
PLEASE NOTE: If replying by e-mail remove the "defender." from my e-mail
address. It has been added to keep my correct e-mail address from usenet
postings to avoid autobots from adding my e-mail address to junk mail lists.
****************************************************************************

 
 
 

Alcatel chipset ADSL modems, Routers, MAC's etc. and PPoE vs DHCP

Post by A. Garland Wo » Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Carl,

A good deal of information can be found in your Zyxel Prestige 641's manual.
For example, see Appendix A (a discussion of PPPoE).  You'll also find the
references to the relevant RFCs (RFC 2516, 2364, 1483, ...)

PPPoE doesn't use the MAC to authenticate, it uses username/password just like
regular old dial-up-networking.  The IP is assigned during the PPP negociation,
just like dial-up-networking.

Cheers,
-Garland

On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:32:52 -0500, Carl Lackey

>Boy! Do I ask good questions or what?

>Carl Lackey still looking for answers


>> I have a question about ISP's and MAC usage.

>> I am with BellSouth and on DHCP.  They require the MAC be
>> registerd by user
>> account.  To change modems or modem/router combo, one must have
>> the tech
>> support change the MAC in their database.  The update migrates out
>> to the CO,
>> they say anywher from 2 minutes to 2 hours.

>> Experiences seem to indicate the MAC is used for user / circut
>> authentication
>> at DHCP Lease time.

>> I have some confusion with the DHCP method and PPoE / PPoA.

>> I have concluded that the MAC is not used with PPoE.  Is that
>> correct?

>> If so, then registering the MAC would no longer be an issues.

>> What method does PPoE use  for issuing IP's?  Is it also DHCP?

>> If Yes Then Do
>>   Doesn't PPoE use userid/password for authentication of
>> something?
>>   Ccould the ISP still use a MAC for authentication too?
>>   No wonder I'm asking questions!
>> End

>> My main focus is troubleshooting a failure.  Experience shows that
>> SYNC can
>> exist but no surf.  One can hypethosize several scenerios where
>> the hardwar
>> could fail and do this.  Since the common troubleshooting approach
>> in
>> situations like that is to swap out components, maybe with a
>> friends
>> hardware, having to get the MAC changed is a real issue.  Not only
>> that,
>> several incidents of typos when tech keyed in the new MAC have
>> been posted
>> herein.  Any time one has an outage, one would like to know that
>> is is "them"
>> and not one's own hardware before opening a trouble ticket.  I
>> would like to be able to take my modem/router over to a working
>> friend and just swap it into his working setup.

>> We really need to develop some workable approaches to
>> troubleshooting this
>> new technology.

>> --
>> ****************************************************************************

>> PLEASE NOTE: If replying by e-mail remove the "defender." from my
>> e-mail
>> address. It has been added to keep my correct e-mail address from
>> usenet
>> postings to avoid autobots from adding my e-mail address to junk
>> mail lists.
>> ****************************************************************************

>--
>****************************************************************************
>PLEASE NOTE: If replying by e-mail remove the "defender." from my e-mail
>address. It has been added to keep my correct e-mail address from usenet
>postings to avoid autobots from adding my e-mail address to junk mail lists.
>****************************************************************************

 
 
 

Alcatel chipset ADSL modems, Routers, MAC's etc. and PPoE vs DHCP

Post by Majdi Abb » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00


| I have a question about ISP's and MAC usage.
|
| Experiences seem to indicate the MAC is used for user / circut
| authentication
| at DHCP Lease time.

        It's not so much for authentication as assignment;
the DHCP server looks at the MAC address, and determines either
what static address, or what pool, to return to the client
based on that.

| I have some confusion with the DHCP method and PPoE / PPoA.
|
| I have concluded that the MAC is not used with PPoE.  Is that
| correct?

        Not strictly.

        The MAC address is always used whenever the interface
is in operation; the modem is acting as a Ethernet or ATM<->
Frame Relay or ATM bridge;

        MAC addressing is a fundamental part of the way
Ethernet works; Even if it isn't exposed to your IP
traffic directly (Because of the PPPoE encap), it's
-always- in use.

| If so, then registering the MAC would no longer be an issues.

        Well, DHCP isn't required if they're using PPPoX, but
if they want to keep track...well, it's up to them.

| What method does PPoE use  for issuing IP's?  Is it also DHCP?

        Generally speaking, via pools assigned to the router
you're plugged into; DHCP doesn't factor into it.

[Ignoring your if yes here...]

|   Doesn't PPoE use userid/password for authentication of
| something?

        Yes.

|   Ccould the ISP still use a MAC for authentication too?

        Yes.

| My main focus is troubleshooting a failure.  Experience shows that
| SYNC can
| exist but no surf.  One can hypethosize several scenerios where
| the hardwar
| could fail and do this.  Since the common troubleshooting approach
| in
| situations like that is to swap out components, maybe with a
| friends
| hardware, having to get the MAC changed is a real issue.  Not only
| that,
| several incidents of typos when tech keyed in the new MAC have
| been posted
| herein.  Any time one has an outage, one would like to know that
| is is "them"
| and not one's own hardware before opening a trouble ticket.  I
| would like to be able to take my modem/router over to a working
| friend and just swap it into his working setup.

        Random hardware swaps aren't going to fix the most
likely problems; call your providers NOC, and report the outage,
and let them do the troubleshooting.

        --msa

 
 
 

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