current MH/nmh status

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:54:32



What is the current status of MH and nmh?

The source for nmh 1.0.4 at ftp://ftp.mhost.com/pub/nmh/ is three
years old, from the project info at savannah it looks in undefined
development status, and there are some serious bugs open yet.

MH looks stalled, but it has not been officially dropped by UCI.  It
has a known security flaw, not fixed yet, but it is a mature release.
From http://www.ics.uci.edu/~mh/ it looks like a package that is
being maintained and developed at UCI yet, but most people recommends
running nmh instead.

Reason for cross-posting to comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc is that there
are some patches for nmh-1.0.4 at pkgsrc.  Some of those patches are
ten months old only.   I am happy building nmh from pkgsrc on my NetBSD
laptop, but... what will happen with those patches?  Will those patches
be added to the main releases?  Will be dropped?  Is there someone
maintaining this nice mail agent yet?

Cheers,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Earl Ho » Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:52:48




Quote:>What is the current status of MH and nmh?

Release candidate 2 of nmh 1.1 is available:
<http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/nmh/nmh-1.1RC2.tar.gz>.

You may want to subscribe to the nmh-workers list if you
are interested in nmh development.  List subscription information
if available from savannah:
<http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/nmh/>

Quote:>Reason for cross-posting to comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc is that there
>are some patches for nmh-1.0.4 at pkgsrc.  Some of those patches are
>ten months old only.   I am happy building nmh from pkgsrc on my NetBSD
>laptop, but... what will happen with those patches?  Will those patches
>be added to the main releases?  Will be dropped?  Is there someone
>maintaining this nice mail agent yet?

Yes there are maintainers, but busy schedules makes development
sporadic.  I believe some NetBSD patches have made it into 1.1.
You should check out the release candidate, and if you have problems,
send messages to nmh-workers.

--ewh
--

Web: <http://www.earlhood.com/>
PGP Public Key: <http://www.earlhood.com/gpgpubkey.txt>

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:02:24



Quote:> Release candidate 2 of nmh 1.1 is available:
> <http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/nmh/nmh-1.1RC2.tar.gz>.

Indeed, and it is only some days old.  RC1 was released a year ago.
What mixed up me was the fact that a year after being released there
was not an official update for nmh yet.

Quote:> You may want to subscribe to the nmh-workers list if you
> are interested in nmh development.  List subscription information
> if available from savannah:
> <http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/nmh/>

I will seriously considering subscribing to this mailing list.  But
I am not sure about how can I contribute to this nice project.  All
is working just fine with nmh.

Quote:> Yes there are maintainers, but busy schedules makes development
> sporadic.  I believe some NetBSD patches have made it into 1.1.
> You should check out the release candidate, and if you have problems,
> send messages to nmh-workers.

I am glad to see that there are some contributions from other
projects.  I submitted some patches to NetBSD last year and I am
very happy with the way NetBSD developers work.  I am sure, they
provided fine patches for nmh.

I am very happy to see that nmh development continues.  I will do
my best to contribute to this project in the future too.

Cheers,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Bill Wohle » Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:23:53



> I am very happy to see that nmh development continues.  I will do
> my best to contribute to this project in the future too.

And MH-E development continues at full speed (consistently in the
80-90 percentile at SourceForge). If you use Emacs, see
mh-e.sourceforge.net for a spiffy interface to MH.

I'm currently working on an update to the MH-E manual which will
correspond with version 8.0 due out later this fall.

--

Maintainer of comp.mail.mh FAQ and MH-E. Vote Libertarian!
If you're passed on the right, you're in the wrong lane.

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:43:28



Quote:> And MH-E development continues at full speed (consistently in the
> 80-90 percentile at SourceForge). If you use Emacs, see
> mh-e.sourceforge.net for a spiffy interface to MH.

Hi again, Bill.

I never tried MH-E.  It looks like a great front-end to MH, do not
doubt I will try it soon.  But I prefer running Emacs as an editor
only now (I know, it is a small and compact operating system!) and using
xmh and exmh as front-ends.  I like running nmh from command-line too.

I am worried about the problems that sometimes appear when running
a lot of front-ends.  I had a problem synchronizing my email between
nmh (command-line) and exmh some time ago.  I am not sure what happened,
but some erased emails were available from exmh yet... another issue
is using the same filters when replying in all those front-ends, adding
the signatures to emails, and so on... another front-end sounds like
a small management nightmare.

Quote:> I'm currently working on an update to the MH-E manual which will
> correspond with version 8.0 due out later this fall.

I will wait until release 8.0 is available.  I see that latest one
is 7.4.2, from august 2003.

Thanks for this nice advice!
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:47:16



Quote:> And MH-E development continues at full speed (consistently in the
> 80-90 percentile at SourceForge). If you use Emacs, see
> mh-e.sourceforge.net for a spiffy interface to MH.

Oh, well... I see that MH-E is included with GNU Emacs.  I will try
it this weekend.

Take care,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Bill Wohle » Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:26:57



> I am worried about the problems that sometimes appear when running
> a lot of front-ends.  I had a problem synchronizing my email between
> nmh (command-line) and exmh some time ago.  I am not sure what happened,
> but some erased emails were available from exmh yet...

In MH-E, the "F n" (mh-rescan-folder) command will update MH-E's state
with MH's state.

Quote:> another issue
> is using the same filters when replying in all those front-ends, adding
> the signatures to emails, and so on... another front-end sounds like
> a small management nightmare.

Try "M-x customize-option RET mh-identity-list RET".


>> And MH-E development continues at full speed (consistently in the
>> 80-90 percentile at SourceForge). If you use Emacs, see
>> mh-e.sourceforge.net for a spiffy interface to MH.

> Oh, well... I see that MH-E is included with GNU Emacs.  I will try
> it this weekend.

That version is quite old (5.0.2). Feel free to grab the latest from
SourceForge now it is a vast improvement. Also, the feature set in 8.0
won't be too much different. It will mostly be a clean-up as a result
of my updating the manual.

At any rate, feel free to post additional questions to

Thanks for your interest!

--

Maintainer of comp.mail.mh FAQ and MH-E. Vote Libertarian!
If you're passed on the right, you're in the wrong lane.

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:56





>> I am worried about the problems that sometimes appear when running
>> a lot of front-ends.  I had a problem synchronizing my email between
>> nmh (command-line) and exmh some time ago.  I am not sure what happened,
>> but some erased emails were available from exmh yet...

> That happens to me, I don't fire up exmh that often, but when I do, the
> folders tend to be out of sync when I first enter them.  A quick folder
> pack (ctrl-return?) from inside exmh fixes it.

Thanks a lot to you and Bill for this useful advice.  Exmh is very powerful
when managing MIME, it is sometimes required.  I like both, nmh (in short,
reading emails in command-line) and xmh, but sometimes exmh must be fired
up.  It is very nice to know that folders can be resynchronized packing
them.  It only happened me one time, but it is annoying.

Thanks again for this advice!
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:45:37



> In MH-E, the "F n" (mh-rescan-folder) command will update MH-E's state
> with MH's state.

Thanks a lot for this advice.  I will try it next time folders are not
synchronised.

Quote:> Try "M-x customize-option RET mh-identity-list RET".

Thanks a lot for this advice too.  I am improving my dot.emacs to
support MH-E too.  It is a very good front-end to nmh.

Quote:> That version is quite old (5.0.2). Feel free to grab the latest from
> SourceForge now it is a vast improvement. Also, the feature set in 8.0
> won't be too much different. It will mostly be a clean-up as a result
> of my updating the manual.

Indeed, it is an old release.  That is one of the reasons I believe
that Emacs should not include all those packages by default.  There
should be a chance to install only a minimum subset of packages
or even better the editor itself.  Of course, this base install
should be expandable adding new packages, like a current release
of MH-E.

It is very nice to know that MH-E 8.0 won't be too much different,
it means that MH-E is a mature product.  I do not trust a lot on
software packages that include big changes from a release to the
next one (except if it is a young product).  I feel that best
software has a good design (and looks like MH-E has been designed
in the right way) and is only changed to fix some small bugs or
improve users documentation.

> At any rate, feel free to post additional questions to


Thanks!!!

Quote:> Thanks for your interest!

Thanks for showing me MH-E.  I knew about that front-end but I was
not sure about trying it.  It is a nice front-end to nmh.

Cheers,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:54:54


A poorly-installed InterNetNews site???

Wow... I supposed that I fixed this issue last weekend.  It looks like the
latest tin(1) release will have some problems reading my configuration files.
It is time for setting up an ORGANIZATION environment variable and looking
again at the newsreader documentation...

Sorry for the inconvenience,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Bill Wohle » Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:15:23




>> In MH-E, the "F n" (mh-rescan-folder) command will update MH-E's state
>> with MH's state.

> Thanks a lot for this advice.  I will try it next time folders are not
> synchronised.

Whoops, that "F r".

Quote:> It is very nice to know that MH-E 8.0 won't be too much different,
> it means that MH-E is a mature product.  I do not trust a lot on
> software packages that include big changes from a release to the
> next one (except if it is a young product).  I feel that best
> software has a good design (and looks like MH-E has been designed
> in the right way) and is only changed to fix some small bugs or
> improve users documentation.

Heh, heh. MH-E is mature, yes, but it certainly isn't dead. If you
read MH-E-NEWS, you'll see that although the basic look and feel of
MH-E hasn't really changed (other than the font-lock support, and the
threading, and the inlined images, oh never mind), it has changed
quite a bit. Hopefully for the better!

--

Maintainer of comp.mail.mh FAQ and MH-E. Vote Libertarian!
If you're passed on the right, you're in the wrong lane.

 
 
 

current MH/nmh status

Post by Igor Sobrad » Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:36:31




>> Thanks a lot for this advice.  I will try it next time folders are not
>> synchronised.

> Whoops, that "F r".

Thanks for the update!  Once I know that there is a way to synchronize
the folders between MH/nmh and exmh, looking for the right keys to
press will not be a problem.  I did not know that it was possible, and
I looked for other workarounds (from searching for problem reports on
this issue up to removing the exmh configuration files.)  Now, I see
that there is a nice way to synchronize folders.  I highly appreciate
your feedback on this matter.

Quote:> Heh, heh. MH-E is mature, yes, but it certainly isn't dead. If you
> read MH-E-NEWS, you'll see that although the basic look and feel of
> MH-E hasn't really changed (other than the font-lock support, and the
> threading, and the inlined images, oh never mind), it has changed
> quite a bit. Hopefully for the better!

Well, even mature products need some improvements.  Changes to mature
products include amongst others bug fixes, performance improvements,
and adherence to standards.  On the other hand, changes in the look
and feel (what is now called using the buzzword `usability'), MUAs
supported (e.g., supporting UUCP's mail folders) and so on looks more
dangerous.

From your description of changes introduced to MH-E it looks like the
package developers know what they want.  And it will help improving
it in the future.

Sometimes changes are wrong, but as you I think that MH-E is going
better.  An example of a bad change happened to the Sendmail MTA,
since they linked all the Sendmail related utilities to the same
binary, building a monolithic MTA, it is more vulnerable to bugs
(there were two critical updates to sendmail since june).  I do not
understand this change, perhaps it slighty improves sendmail
performance.  But sendmail was more clean about ten years ago.
Indeed, sometimes developers take the wrong decisions, that is one
of the reasons I do not like big changes to software products.

Cheers,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

1. inc problem with current nmh.

With mh, it does.  MH has a patch so inc will look at the
Content-Length field to determine when a message ends.  I would guess
the nmh supports Content-Length (maybe it's a build option).

        --ewh
--
             Earl Hood              | University of California: Irvine

http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/ | Dabbler of SGML/WWW/Perl/MIME

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