nmh mime support is rubbish

nmh mime support is rubbish

Post by Peter Dembinsk » Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:55:50



There is no possibility of setting message default encoding.  Instead,
mhbuild uses its heuristics and sets it for user.  For example,
text/plain;charset=iso-8859-2 gets encoded in quoted-printable manner,
wnen most people I know prefer 8bit encoded text.

This is totally *wrong* from user interface point of view.  Users
don't like programs that don't allow them to configure the way they
want them to work.

Is nmh's development continued or not?  Will nmh be usable for
non-ascii users in some point in the future?

peter

 
 
 

nmh mime support is rubbish

Post by Igor Sobrad » Fri, 03 Oct 2003 03:21:14



> Is nmh's development continued or not?

Hi, Peter.

Hopefully, the answer is yes --- nmh development is not stalled.

Quote:> Will nmh be usable for
> non-ascii users in some point in the future?

I cannot answer to this question, I am not a developer and I do not
know the list of features developers are working in, but...

why supporting non-ASCII users?  IMHO(*), MH and nmh are aimed to
develop a fully-standards-compliant mail user agent, with a nice
Unix style.  As a non-MSFT user, I really appreciate any effort
aimed to develop standard tools, I do not like receiving emails
in non-ASCII encodings, or even in HTML (soon XML... we will see).

On the other hand, I never had problems sending emails in non us-ASCII
ISO encondings, like ISO 8859-1 (a.k.a., Latin 1).  Nice for sending
emails with accent marks.  I guess you can add some information
about the encoding class in the nmh filters (in ~/Mail).

(*) of course, I can be absolutely wrong!

--


 
 
 

nmh mime support is rubbish

Post by Peter Dembinsk » Fri, 03 Oct 2003 04:34:11


[...]

Quote:> why supporting non-ASCII users?  

because the world is not ascii-closed, some parts of it are not even
ascii-aware :)

Quote:> IMHO(*), MH and nmh are aimed to develop a fully-standards-compliant
> mail user agent, with a nice Unix style.  

I like nmh's style, I just blame them for not supporting ISO charsets
in message headers.

Quote:> As a non-MSFT user, I really appreciate any effort aimed to develop
> standard tools, I do not like receiving emails in non-ASCII
> encodings, or even in HTML (soon XML... we will see).

I am sure that for you, as English-speaking user, this is not an
issue.  But there are over 5 billion people whose national charset is
not covered by ascii, and they would like to have a "standards
compliant, unix-style mail handling system" too.  Why not nmh?

Quote:> On the other hand, I never had problems sending emails in non
> us-ASCII ISO encondings, like ISO 8859-1 (a.k.a., Latin 1).

Me too.  I just can't sign letters I send via nmh with my _real_
surname, which is DembiNski, where N stands for 'n' character with
dash over it.  

Quote:> Nice for sending emails with accent marks.  I guess you can add some
> information about the encoding class in the nmh filters (in ~/Mail).

Where?  I cannot find any information about setting it.

Quote:> (*) of course, I can be absolutely wrong!

you are absolutely right, with some exclusions :>
 
 
 

nmh mime support is rubbish

Post by Igor Sobrad » Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:02:59




>> why supporting non-ASCII users?  

> because the world is not ascii-closed, some parts of it are not even
> ascii-aware :)

I supposed that EBCDIC was not being used now... :-)

Seriously, I recommend you looking at section 05.16 in the MH FAQ.
I do not know what front-end are you using but there are probably
some good workarounds in section 2 of the EXMH FAQ too.

Quote:> I like nmh's style, I just blame them for not supporting ISO charsets
> in message headers.

Perhaps you should read question 05.16 (How can I convert quoted-printable
to 8-bit in quoted text in replies) from the MH FAQ.

Scan now decodes RFC-2047 headers.  I am not sure about using no us-ascii
ISO charsets in email headers.  But the "From:" part of the header is
probably the only place you want more advanced encodings.

Quote:> I am sure that for you, as English-speaking user, this is not an
> issue.  But there are over 5 billion people whose national charset is
> not covered by ascii, and they would like to have a "standards
> compliant, unix-style mail handling system" too.  Why not nmh?

Thanks, but I am not an English-speaking user.  In fact, that is the
reason stops me from going to the United States, my english skills
are low.  I live in Spain, and my computers run ISO 8859-1.  I am
looking for a post-doc in USA, but I believe that it will be a
difficult goal.

Take a look at the MH FAQ question about converting quoted-printable
characters to 8-bit.  Perhaps it will help you.

Quote:> Me too.  I just can't sign letters I send via nmh with my _real_
> surname, which is DembiNski, where N stands for 'n' character with
> dash over it.

I understand your problem... I believe you will need to read question
05.16 from the MH FAQ and section 2 of the exmh FAQ, if you are
running exmh.  I hope you will find some useful information here.

Quote:> Where?  I cannot find any information about setting it.

I send emails with accent marks in the body of the messages, I never
tried 8-bit characters in the "From:" line of the header.  Take a
look at the Request for Comments 2047.  Perhaps the exmh FAQ will
help you even using another front-end to nmh.

Quote:>> (*) of course, I can be absolutely wrong!

> you are absolutely right, with some exclusions :>

Thanks, I hope it so!

cheers,
Igor.

--

 
 
 

1. nmh and MIME support in mail headers

I use nmh 1.0.4+dev-20010317 from Debian GNU/Linux 3.0r1.

Although nmh seems to support MIME messages well, I cannot make it
encode mail headers, such as Subject or From, in ISO-8859-2 charset.
Instead, I get X characters.

I have MM_CHARSET environment variable set to "iso-8859-2" and system
locale (LANG, LANGUAGE, LINGUAS, LC_ALL) information set to "pl_PL".

There follows sample mail generated with nmh's comp command:

#v+

Delivery-Date: Fri Sep 26 14:05:10 2003

Delivery-date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:05:10 +0200

Subject: Testing nmh MIME handling [zaXXXX gXXlX jaXX] [ZAXXXX GXXLX JAXX]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:05:02 +0200


Testing nmh MIME handling.

[za=BF=F3=B3=E6 g=EA=B6l=B1 ja=BC=F1] =

[ZA=AF=D3=A3=C6 G=CA=A6L=A1 JA=AC=D1]

#v-

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