Very Computer

Having read a lot about quality of the DB50XG I bought one. Either I've
done something wrong or the instrumental samples are not very good. The
strings, clarinet, brass etc sound not much better than the 2meg sound font
I was using. The piano sound clangy above C2 above middle C. The violin,
viola and cello sound horrible as well and the vibrato is most unreal.

Am I expecting too much? If so, what makes the DB50XG so good?

Would I have been better off with an 8Meg sound font?

Sam

I have a DB50xg on an AWE32 and I am very happy with it although I think
I know what you mean, some of the sounds are a little off putting (This
is compared to my professional keyboards costing up to $5000).  I guess
the main advantage is the Yamaha XG side of it, the different ways that
you can change those on board sounds is vastly superior to the GM
controls you have on the AWE.

I you haven't already, have a listen to some of the better XG sequences
available on the net, original pieces by Keyboard Wizard (Michael
Walthius(hope I spelt that right)) and David Kelly really show off what
the XG standard can do.  And if that doesn't convince you, try changing
the MIDI output of Windows to your AWE and compare them.  The modulation
options and controls are what really make this board shine over just
about everything else that is out there, especially at the price.

So I guess what I am trying to say is, no IMO you have not made a
mistake.

Sean Coady

[Snip]

Quote:>  I guess
>the main advantage is the Yamaha XG side of it, the different ways that
>you can change those on board sounds is vastly superior to the GM
>controls you have on the AWE.

[Snip]
> original pieces by Keyboard Wizard (Michael
>Walthius(hope I spelt that right)) and David Kelly really show off what
>the XG standard can do.

My main use for sound is to play classical & folk music in the way I wish
to hear them. I've picked up a lot of midi files and entered a few of my
own and I'm trying to get them to sound better. I find working on a tune
rather hard when the sound is irritating!

I've heard some original stuff and demos for XG and, indeed, they sound
magnificent - but I can't work out how to make individual instruments sound
good let alone magnificent. I suppose, to get a more realistic sound, I
need several different sounds for each instrument - but I want to put more
effort into the music rather than the sound. I play a violin and, having
got enough technique, I can just make music. I'm trying to make music with
a sound card, hoping to get a box of instruments I can play together.

Quote:>So I guess what I am trying to say is, no IMO you have not made a
>mistake.

Sam

Sam,

Quote:>My main use for sound is to play classical & folk music in the way I wish
>to hear them.

I think the DB50XG is best of its kind but, with the sort of application
you have in mind you might be better off using it for background
arrangements and use the soundfont facility you have on the AWE to load
in high quality (ie big!) samples of the instrument(s) you want to solo

--
Mark Harrop

The Uncertain Music Corps - http://www.umcorps.demon.co.uk
"It don't mean a thing if it aint got that doubt"

Quote:

>I think the DB50XG is best of its kind but, with the sort of application
>you have in mind you might be better off using it for background
>arrangements and use the soundfont facility you have on the AWE to load
>in high quality (ie big!) samples of the instrument(s) you want to solo

Sam

Quote:>Do they really need to be big?  

If you are looking for accurate sounds you need to use samples with
sufficient detail for the job and detail=information=size.

For example, I've spent the past few days putting together a cello
soundfont which is based around a sample of each the open strings. It
sounds pretty good but, as the sf2 is just under 2mb so it should! I
plan to make a second one shortly that will not need the samples to be
looped which will probably push it the wrong side of 6mb. The point is
that I can exploit the onboard memory of the AWE with this kind of
luxurious use of memory and rely on other modules (like the DB50XG) to
provide the less critical parts of the arrangement.
--
Mark Harrop

The Uncertain Music Corps - http://www.umcorps.demon.co.uk
"It don't mean a thing if it aint got that doubt"

Hi All,
   An Awe32 combined with a good db is a good combo. One can use the
daughterboard of ones choice, also the soundfonts one wants.
   As far as the XG strings go, the Roland cards still have better
sounding strings, both the GS violin and fiddle bend and slide quite
nicely.
   Like most soundcards, many of the factory sounds and settings are
nothing to get e*d about. On the both the GS and XG soundcards, one
can get in there and improve the sounds 100% by learning to do some
simple sound editing.
   With the awe's you dont have as many editing options, because you
load in your own samples, same for an external sampler.
   One can custom edit ones samples in any sample editing program
before uploading to the soundcard anyway.
   Happy Sounds
   Timothy Kelly
   MidiVox
--
MidiVox - Worlds 1st Real Time Voice to Midi. BioSensor Neckband
+ Rack Mount Brain.

Hum, Sing, Scat, Talk, Rap, Croon. AES Best in Show. EM's
Editors Choice. Keyboard "MidiVox Roars."

I'm still not convinced unfortunately that the AWE32 is even that
good for playing samples though. While it's fine for most stuff,
I've noticed that it can't reproduce the bass particularly well.
I've got some great 909 bass drums that are well wicked when played
using, eg Goldwave or Cooledit, but after I shunt them onto the
AWE32 the sound goes to shit. The bass disapears and I'm left with
this crappy drum sound. Utterly pathetic really.

l8r,
g

Quote:>As an aside at this point, the DB50XG is IMHO _far_ superior to the
>AWE32 (My DB50 sits on my AWE32). Does anyone making quality tunes
>actually use the AWE32 for anything but putting samples on?

The main problem is in programming the EMU8000 with any ease. It amazes
me that Creative Labs have not produced a decent editor for the AWE.
Most of my work with the AWE is done using Koan Pro which, happily,
makes it dead easy to get at all of the features of the EMU8000 in some
very powerful and flexible ways. If you haven't done so you should check
it out to see what sort of noise you CAN get from the AWE with the right
tools.

Better still, get yourself a copy of Koan web (its free) and check out
some of the pieces on the AWE page of the Uncertain Music Corps (end of
shameless plug)

Quote:>Add a bit of reverb and chorus to it
>and they really come into their own. They beat the AWE32's hands
>down any day

Quote:

>I'm still not convinced unfortunately that the AWE32 is even that
>good for playing samples though. While it's fine for most stuff,
>I've noticed that it can't reproduce the bass particularly well.
>I've got some great 909 bass drums that are well wicked when played
>using, eg Goldwave or Cooledit, but after I shunt them onto the
>AWE32 the sound goes to shit. The bass disapears and I'm left with
>this crappy drum sound. Utterly pathetic really.

--
Mark Harrop

The Uncertain Music Corps - http://www.umcorps.demon.co.uk
"It don't mean a thing if it aint got that doubt"

Quote:>I've got some great 909 bass drums that are well wicked when played
>using, eg Goldwave or Cooledit, but after I shunt them onto the
>AWE32 the sound goes to shit. The bass disapears and I'm left with
>this crappy drum sound. Utterly pathetic really.

Sam

Hi !

Quote:> As an aside at this point, the DB50XG is IMHO _far_ superior to the
> AWE32 (My DB50 sits on my AWE32). Does anyone making quality tunes
> actually use the AWE32 for anything but putting samples on?

Check out http://www.sseyo.com/genmus1.html ... no less a guru
of the musical treatment than Brian Eno, has released an album
of music *specifically* for the AWE32 - "Generative Music 1".
And the key here is that it does *NOT* use samples. :-)

Instead, Brian was able to tweak the standard sounds on the AWE
to get exactly the effects / moods he wanted, by extensive
manipulation of the many built-in AWE NRPN controllers ... something
that is really easy to use BTW using SSEYO's Koan Pro software
(http://www.sseyo.com/kprobroc.html).

So - a major facet of the AWE cards is that they are so programmmable.
Letting you change the standard sounds into something really unique.
Not something that Creative or many other people seem to have publicised
or picked-up on much, but there you go. This IMHO is one of the problems
with most other Wavetable cards - there is little you can change in the
basic
sounds due to the general lack of controller support (the XG range does
of course have *excellent* controller support, again directly supported
by Koan Pro).

Just my 2 cents ! ;-)

All the best,

Pete

I think the main problem is what people expect from their sound/daughter
cards. The AWE32 (or AWE64 which, from what I can tell, simply improves
on the noisy parts of the 32) is alright for game playing but at over
100 quid (UK) it's pretty expensive. The DB50 is about the same price
and offers far better sounds than the 32, but only if you're prepared
to work with it. You _have_ to learn to play with XGEdit and mess around
with all the SYSEX bollocks if you want great sounds. Compare the really
good XG files with any of the best AWE32 stuff. It's no comparison.

Compared to, say, the current crop of sound modules, alright, they're
not much cop, but for the price they are superb. A DB50 will set you
back about 100quid. It's getting difficult to even find AWE32's any
more, and the AWE64 is over 100 quid (UK pounds), add to that about
30quid for a memory upgrade and is it really worth it, especially
since the upgrades are now propriety ones. If Yamaha were to make the
DB50 as a standalone card with sample capacity on it it'd be a killer.
At least then we wouldn't have huge hiss, pathetic downgrade of sample
quality when put on the board and an unfair price because Yamaha know
what they're doing. The DB50 truly brings power without the price.
You get FX processors, a huge sound set and XG support. It beats the
AWE32 IMO.

Quote:> >I've got some great 909 bass drums that are well wicked when played
> >using, eg Goldwave or Cooledit, but after I shunt them onto the
> >AWE32 the sound goes to shit. The bass disapears and I'm left with
> >this crappy drum sound. Utterly pathetic really.

> It's relatively rare for drums to be significant in the  music I like,  but
> some timp notes do sound better on the DB50XG.

> Sam

l8r,
g