Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Paul Neav » Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:05:38



Does anyone know who wrote the very first Snake/Nibbles game?
There have been so many clones, trying to find the original
version is almost impossible!

Many thanks,
Paul.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by U » Sun, 14 Sep 2003 03:50:30


Hiya!

Well the first Snake game Sega produced was Blockade in 1976, but I'm
sure someone predated that...

Yours, Mark.


> Does anyone know who wrote the very first Snake/Nibbles game?
> There have been so many clones, trying to find the original
> version is almost impossible!

> Many thanks,
> Paul.


 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Ross Simpso » Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:10:00



> > Does anyone know who wrote the very first Snake/Nibbles game?
> > There have been so many clones, trying to find the original
> > version is almost impossible!
> Well the first Snake game Sega produced was Blockade in 1976, but I'm
> sure someone predated that...

I don't know, but I suspect that Snake originated from a non-microcomputer.
Unfortunately, I cannot find anything to support this. An example of such a
machine might be a PDP based system (PDP-1 for example dates back to 1961),
an even larger system (when compared to the PDP-1) was the TX-0, some of the
programs written for that have been written many times for PC based
computers like the Bouncy Ball & Tic-Tac-Toe.

Cheers,
Ross.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by David Butter » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:20:49



2003:

Quote:> I don't know, but I suspect that Snake originated from a
> non-microcomputer. Unfortunately, I cannot find anything to
> support this. An example of such a machine might be a PDP based
> system (PDP-1 for example dates back to 1961), an even larger
> system (when compared to the PDP-1) was the TX-0, some of the
> programs written for that have been written many times for PC
> based computers like the Bouncy Ball & Tic-Tac-Toe.

> Cheers,
> Ross.

There's a Noughts and Crosses (ie Tic Tac Toe) program sitting here on
my EDSAC simulator, and the date on that is "c. 1952". I'm not sure
that machine would have lent itself terribly well to arcade games,
however... ;-)

--
Above address *is* valid - but snip spamtrap to get me to *read*!

Support the world's oldest motorsport venue!
http://www.shelsley-walsh.co.uk/future.html

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Ross Simpso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:32:46



> > I don't know, but I suspect that Snake originated from a
> > non-microcomputer. Unfortunately, I cannot find anything to
> > support this. An example of such a machine might be a PDP based
> > system (PDP-1 for example dates back to 1961), an even larger
> > system (when compared to the PDP-1) was the TX-0, some of the
> > programs written for that have been written many times for PC
> > based computers like the Bouncy Ball & Tic-Tac-Toe.
> There's a Noughts and Crosses (ie Tic Tac Toe) program sitting here on
> my EDSAC simulator, and the date on that is "c. 1952". I'm not sure
> that machine would have lent itself terribly well to arcade games,
> however... ;-)

Really? I've got an EDSAC emulator (probably the same one as you do) & even
that has shown to be capable of doing a bouncy ball (which they call a Pong
Demo!). I haven't played the Noughts & Crosses on it.

I've also asked others (elsewhere I think) about the possibilities of using
the phone dial as some sort of controller (which it would), but it wouldn't
be practical on the actural machine! ;-)

Cheers,
Ross.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Anders Carlsso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:26:56



> There's a Noughts and Crosses (ie Tic Tac Toe) program sitting
> here on my EDSAC simulator, and the date on that is "c. 1952".

Excuse my ignorance (I'm too young), but when did the first CRTs
or similar displays/terminals appear with computer equipment? I
have a vague memory about learning it once, but it has slipped
my mind. I guess a terminal which you can constantly update is
preferred when you play a Snake game. OTOH, Ross mentioned a
Pong demo, which I assume also includes some display updating?

(try to imagine 50 years from now, whether people will refer to
 XBOX in a similar nostalgic tone as you just mentioned EDSAC :-)

--
Anders Carlsson

"Please not to close to the hair, finger, clothes to run about the
 inside's vehicle, in order to prevent quilt involvement." -- Bit Racer

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Ross Simpso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:07:30



> > There's a Noughts and Crosses (ie Tic Tac Toe) program sitting
> > here on my EDSAC simulator, and the date on that is "c. 1952".
> Excuse my ignorance (I'm too young), but when did the first CRTs
> or similar displays/terminals appear with computer equipment? I
> have a vague memory about learning it once, but it has slipped
> my mind. I guess a terminal which you can constantly update is
> preferred when you play a Snake game. OTOH, Ross mentioned a
> Pong demo, which I assume also includes some display updating?

Yes EDSAC has a display (so did ENIAC which came out before that I believe),
but it's quite unusal. It's round, was supposed to be small & the resolution
of the screen was built up of dots (which means there was no character set).
A daisy wheel printer was also used. In case I'm wrong about any of this,
alt.folklore.computers will know! ;-)

Quote:> (try to imagine 50 years from now, whether people will refer to
> XBOX in a similar nostalgic tone as you just mentioned EDSAC :-)

Well maybe, but the thing to remember is that 50 years ago there were fewer
machines than what there is today, which means the machines that did exist
stood out more. If you check out http://www.old-computers.com/museum &
machines which were made 30-40 years ago, you'll see it becomes trickier to
remember those! ;-)

Cheers,
Ross.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Anders Carlsso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:17:28



> It's round, was supposed to be small & the resolution of the screen
> was built up of dots (which means there was no character set).

Ah, high-resolution graphics from the very beginning! The issue with
"no character set" is of course present on much more recent systems
too; not even NES has a default font in ROM...

--
Anders Carlsson

"Please not to close to the hair, finger, clothes to run about the
 inside's vehicle, in order to prevent quilt involvement." -- Bit Racer

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Ross Simpso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:32:30



> > It's round, was supposed to be small & the resolution of the screen
> > was built up of dots (which means there was no character set).
> Ah, high-resolution graphics from the very beginning!

'Um no, not exactly. The screen goes like this 34 dots across & 16 dots
down! ;-)

When the PDP-1 can out in 1961 high resolution graphics were out (even
though it was in mono). However it still different from when high resolution
mono graphics came out for the Microcomputers.

Quote:> The issue with "no character set" is of course present
> on much more recent systems too; not even NES has a
> default font in ROM...

Yes, well NES aims itself purely on graphics. EDSAC is pretty simple in
comparasion to anything. You might as well say that it's 34x16 pixels! But
still it doesn't stop having the usual bouncy ball routine running on it!
;-)

Cheers,
Ross.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Brian Ingli » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:18:01


On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:07:30 +1000 in alt.folklore.computers,



>> > There's a Noughts and Crosses (ie Tic Tac Toe) program sitting
>> > here on my EDSAC simulator, and the date on that is "c. 1952".

>> Excuse my ignorance (I'm too young), but when did the first CRTs
>> or similar displays/terminals appear with computer equipment? I
>> have a vague memory about learning it once, but it has slipped
>> my mind. I guess a terminal which you can constantly update is
>> preferred when you play a Snake game. OTOH, Ross mentioned a
>> Pong demo, which I assume also includes some display updating?

>Yes EDSAC has a display (so did ENIAC which came out before that I believe),
>but it's quite unusal. It's round, was supposed to be small & the resolution
>of the screen was built up of dots (which means there was no character set).
>A daisy wheel printer was also used. In case I'm wrong about any of this,

Would have been a teleprinter or a line printer.

Quote:>alt.folklore.computers will know! ;-)

Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis         Calgary, Alberta, Canada
--

    fake address                use address above to reply
 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Anders Carlsso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:15:42



>> Ah, high-resolution graphics from the very beginning!
> 'Um no, not exactly. The screen goes like this 34 dots across & 16 dots
> down! ;-)

                                   Somehow, high resolution is probably
********************************** a definition of its time. In 1982,
###*#*#*#**##***##*##***#***##*### we liked to call 320x200 hires, but
*#**#*#*#*#****#***#*#*#*#*#***#** four years later, 640x400 was what
*#**###*#**#****#**##**###*#***##* you would look for. What is a high
*#**#*#*#***#****#*#***#*#*#***#** resolution display of today by the
*#**#*#*#*##***##**#***#*#**##*### way? Should 1024x768 be worthy to
********************************** call hires, or does one expect more?
**###****#####******#######*******
##***####*****######*******####### 34x16 is not too bad considering we  
********************************** are speaking early 50'ties. However,
#**##**###**#**##***##**###*##*### it makes me wonder in comparison how
#*#****#***#*#*#*#**#*#*#***#*#*#* a TV picture with its rather good    
#**#***##**#*#*##***##**##**#*#*#* resolution (even back then?) is      
#***#**#***#*#*#*#**#*#*#***#*#*#* composed.. no, I would prefer not to
#*##***#****#**#*#**#*#*###*#*#*#* wander further off*topic into that  
********************************** area.                              

--
Anders Carlsson

"Please not to close to the hair, finger, clothes to run about the
 inside's vehicle, in order to prevent quilt involvement." -- Bit Racer

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Ross Simpso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:58:07



> >> Ah, high-resolution graphics from the very beginning!
> > 'Um no, not exactly. The screen goes like this 34 dots across & 16 dots
> > down! ;-)
>                                    Somehow, high resolution is probably
> ********************************** a definition of its time. In 1982,
> ###*#*#*#**##***##*##***#***##*### we liked to call 320x200 hires, but
> *#**#*#*#*#****#***#*#*#*#*#***#** four years later, 640x400 was what
> *#**###*#**#****#**##**###*#***##* you would look for. What is a high
> *#**#*#*#***#****#*#***#*#*#***#** resolution display of today by the
> *#**#*#*#*##***##**#***#*#**##*### way? Should 1024x768 be worthy to
> ********************************** call hires, or does one expect more?
> **###****#####******#######*******
> ##***####*****######*******####### 34x16 is not too bad considering we
> ********************************** are speaking early 50'ties. However,
> #**##**###**#**##***##**###*##*### it makes me wonder in comparison how
> #*#****#***#*#*#*#**#*#*#***#*#*#* a TV picture with its rather good
> #**#***##**#*#*##***##**##**#*#*#* resolution (even back then?) is
> #***#**#***#*#*#*#**#*#*#***#*#*#* composed.. no, I would prefer not to
> #*##***#****#**#*#**#*#*###*#*#*#* wander further off*topic into that
> ********************************** area.

Oh well if you put it that way, then yes people would have been impressed
with it's resolution in it's heyday. It's a bit tricky putting a perspective
on resolution when it can so easily compared to others (even in a 10-15
years period when EDSAC was overpowered by something smaller & had an higher
resolution!).

You cannot compare Microcomputers with these earlier machines (as their's
nothing to compare because they developed at different stages). Graphics was
a luxury for a Microcomputer in the '70s (& Colour too!). A Vic-20 came with
graphics once extra hardware was added! My first computer was an Amstrad
which came out in 1984 it had 3 video modes (640x200x2, 320x200x4 or
160x200x16). When compared to a PDP-1 which came out 20 years earlier that's
nothing, the PDP-1 had a very high resolution for it's time, but then there
are a number of other factors which mean't writing something on a PDP-1 to
take the maximum resolution was a bit more tricker!

In a sense, back then I don't really believe computers didn't have High
Resolutions or Low Resolutions, because they only had one Video Resolution.
High Resolution is more of a term used for a machine which provides a
multiple number of video modes (which only really applies for newer
machines).

It doesn't matter what period you're taking about in terms of video
resolutions because we'll just be comparning the highest detailed thing
against everything else. But for a computer which provides multiple video
modes, then the highest resolution would be the one which provides the most
detail, the lowest would be the one with the least resolution! ;-)

Cheers,
Ross.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Ross Simpso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:00:31



> >> > There's a Noughts and Crosses (ie Tic Tac Toe) program sitting
> >> > here on my EDSAC simulator, and the date on that is "c. 1952".
> >> Excuse my ignorance (I'm too young), but when did the first CRTs
> >> or similar displays/terminals appear with computer equipment? I
> >> have a vague memory about learning it once, but it has slipped
> >> my mind. I guess a terminal which you can constantly update is
> >> preferred when you play a Snake game. OTOH, Ross mentioned a
> >> Pong demo, which I assume also includes some display updating?
> >Yes EDSAC has a display (so did ENIAC which came out before that I
believe),
> >but it's quite unusal. It's round, was supposed to be small & the
resolution
> >of the screen was built up of dots (which means there was no character
set).
> >A daisy wheel printer was also used. In case I'm wrong about any of this,
> Would have been a teleprinter or a line printer.

Yes, I usually get those muddled!

Quote:> >alt.folklore.computers will know! ;-)
> Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Thanks Brian.

Ross.

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Anders Carlsso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:02:45



> A Vic-20 came with graphics once extra hardware was added!

Err.. are you trying to say it took until the development of the VIC-I
chip before one of the first computers with both graphics, colours and
sound was possible to produce for the mass market?

Oh well, as a disclaimer for getting off-topic, I might mention Tron,
the first movie to be based upon a computer game (Snake clone, isn't it?)

--
Anders Carlsson

"Please not to close to the hair, finger, clothes to run about the
 inside's vehicle, in order to prevent quilt involvement." -- Bit Racer

 
 
 

Snake/Nibbles game creator?

Post by Paul Robso » Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:26:26



> Excuse my ignorance (I'm too young), but when did the first CRTs
> or similar displays/terminals appear with computer equipment? I
> have a vague memory about learning it once, but it has slipped
> my mind. I guess a terminal which you can constantly update is
> preferred when you play a Snake game. OTOH, Ross mentioned a
> Pong demo, which I assume also includes some display updating?

> (try to imagine 50 years from now, whether people will refer to
>  XBOX in a similar nostalgic tone as you just mentioned EDSAC :-)

I think the earliest displays were on oscilloscopes driven by D-A
convertors.

Your last comment is unreasonable as EDSAC is probably more modern
technology than the XBox.