Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Tom Kustne » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00



After I get our NetWare servers set up for NTP to Internet time
outside, how can I get our NT servers to use the time on the NetWare 5
NTP server?  Just point to it?

Tom Kustner
Emjay Corp. - A Wells Fargo Company

Any opinions are strictly my own and not necessarily those of Wells Fargo.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Jumb » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>After I get our NetWare servers set up for NTP to Internet time
>outside, how can I get our NT servers to use the time on the NetWare 5
>NTP server?  Just point to it?

You could have the NT server login to NDS with a Novell client, but
then you'd lose Gateway Services, or use NDS4NT, or use an NTP client
on the NT server to sync to whatever NTP host you're using with the NW
servers. Tardis is quite good.

The best option is probably NDS4NT - but it will cost. The cheapest
best option is Tardis. I can't think why putting a Novell client on an
NT server is bad - it just sounds wrong :)

BTW, I'm no expert on Novell Timesync - but wouldn't be better just to
have the primary sync to an NTP host, and then just let the other
servers sync to the primary?

Cheers,

--

Go not to the machines for counsel, for they will say both 0 and 1.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Tom Kustne » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00


I imagine that the TIMESERV tool in the NT resource kit may do the
trick.

Tom Kustner
Emjay Corp. - A Wells Fargo Company

Any opinions are strictly my own and not necessarily those of Wells Fargo.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Tom Kustne » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00


That's what I was planning.  Using a NetWare 5 server to hit to a site
and have everyone get time off that.

I'll look into Tardis.  Thanks very much for the recommendation.

Tom Kustner
Emjay Corp. - A Wells Fargo Company

Any opinions are strictly my own and not necessarily those of Wells Fargo.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Hansang Ba » Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:00:00



>After I get our NetWare servers set up for NTP to Internet time
>outside, how can I get our NT servers to use the time on the NetWare 5
>NTP server?  Just point to it?

The resource kit has an NTP client I believe.  'Course there are a numbe
of vendors that have ntp solutions for NT.  Basically, you install it as
a service and that's about it.

*********** Remove the REMOVE if emailing me directly **************
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********************************************************************
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Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Andy Rowlan » Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Just a note:  I am doing exactly this with NTP on a mixed Mac/PC network.  I
of course sync the PC clients with logins, and any of the newer Macs (8.5
and up) I point to the NW5 server for time.
--Andy Rowland
Coordinator, Grand River Network


[snip]

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Clarence Dol » Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:00:00


: Just a note:  I am doing exactly this with NTP on a mixed Mac/PC network.  I
: of course sync the PC clients with logins, and any of the newer Macs (8.5
: and up) I point to the NW5 server for time.

My problem is that I have a dialup link to the internet.  I don't want to
do an NTP lookup to the dialup every ten minutes.  I'd like to do it a lot
less oftne, but that doesn't seem to play quite right.  Actually, the
timekeeping on my NW5 is dreadful... 20 seconds loss every ten minutes.  I
can keep my unix box on time with a once-a-week sync, but NW5 doesn't seem
to want to slave to it via Timesync/NTP.  Perhaps I should go back to the
NTP-only NLM, and try slaving that to my unix??

--
---

                - Pope Valley & Napa CA.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Ken Agres » Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:00:00




<snip>

Quote:

>My problem is that I have a dialup link to the internet.  I don't want to
>do an NTP lookup to the dialup every ten minutes.  I'd like to do it a lot
>less oftne, but that doesn't seem to play quite right.  Actually, the
>timekeeping on my NW5 is dreadful... 20 seconds loss every ten minutes.  I

I'm betting your NW 5 server is a PRIMARY time server, right?  That
much creep is almost certainly not the fault of the server hardware,
but of the "voting" that time servers do to settle upon a common time.
Try changing this server to a REFERENCE, allow it to dial whenever it
chooses (or are you paying per connection?), and you should see this
type of drift go away.

Quote:>can keep my unix box on time with a once-a-week sync, but NW5 doesn't seem
>to want to slave to it via Timesync/NTP.  Perhaps I should go back to the
>NTP-only NLM, and try slaving that to my unix??

There's another possible option.

Ken Agress/CNE
Note - While I may reply to direct e-mails, if you really
want an answer, please post to the Newsgroups.
Please note that my e-mail address has changed.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Clarence Dol » Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:00:00



: <snip>
:>
:>My problem is that I have a dialup link to the internet.  I don't want to
:>do an NTP lookup to the dialup every ten minutes.  I'd like to do it a lot
:>less oftne, but that doesn't seem to play quite right.  Actually, the
:>timekeeping on my NW5 is dreadful... 20 seconds loss every ten minutes.  I

: I'm betting your NW 5 server is a PRIMARY time server, right?  That
: much creep is almost certainly not the fault of the server hardware,
: but of the "voting" that time servers do to settle upon a common time.
: Try changing this server to a REFERENCE, allow it to dial whenever it
: chooses (or are you paying per connection?), and you should see this
: type of drift go away.

Hmmm... how much did you bet?
This started as soon as NW5 was installed.  There was no other NW to
negotiate with, and the time slips backwards, not forwards, as I saw with
Timesysnc long ago (or maybe that was Banyon Vines, I forget).
There was no time sync at all.  It was just slipping.
It was set to REFERENCE, SINGLE, and PRIMARY, with no apparent effect.

I can set Timesync to do a very slow poll to the internet, like once a day,
but the time slip in the interim is intolerable.  I wanted to slave the NW5
box to a unix box, but the Unix ntp doesn't seem to have a setting allowing
long delays between syncs.

I might need to fetch xntp for unix, instead of ntp.  Maybe that has an
option for longer time syncs.  I also wonder if I can tell NW5 that it is
_not_ a Stratum 1 source.  The Unix seems to come up as Stratum 16.

Of course, if the NW time was within 30 seconds a week, I wouldn't fuss
with any of this.

And, yes, I am paying line time for my internet connection.  Standard
business rates are $.03 per connection, plus $.01 per minute, making a 24x7
connection more expensive than DSL.

--
---

                - Pope Valley & Napa CA.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Mark H. Woo » Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:00:00


[snippage]

Quote:> BTW, I'm no expert on Novell Timesync - but wouldn't be better just to
> have the primary sync to an NTP host, and then just let the other
> servers sync to the primary?

I wish Novell had never used that word "primary" since it's so
confusing.  SINGLE (if you have only one) or REFERENCE (if you want
redundancy) is the highest level of the time sync. hierarchy in
Netware.  PRIMARY servers want to get their time from a SINGLE or
REFERENCE server but will redistribute it to SECONDARY servers.
Nobody but clients will trust a SECONDARY.

I've seen quite knowledgable people stumble over this bit of
terminology.

++++++++++++

The question of having a Netware box serve up time to NT hinges upon
the question of just what time services your version of Netware will
provide.  If it will respond to SNTP clients then the little goodie
from the resource kit should work.  Otherwise it may be best to set up
one NT box to sync. via SNTP to the same place(s) you're using to
sync. your Netware box, and then point any other NT boxes to *that*
one.  That's what I do here and it works well enough.

--

"Where's the kaboom?  There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"
         -- Marvin Martian, 01/01/2000 00:00:00

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Hansang Ba » Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Quote:>I wish Novell had never used that word "primary" since it's so
>confusing.  SINGLE (if you have only one) or REFERENCE (if you want
>redundancy) is the highest level of the time sync. hierarchy in
>Netware.  PRIMARY servers want to get their time from a SINGLE or
>REFERENCE server but will redistribute it to SECONDARY servers.
>Nobody but clients will trust a SECONDARY.
>I've seen quite knowledgable people stumble over this bit of
>terminology.

Alas..... et tu Brute?

SINGLE is mutially exclusive with PRIMARY OR REFERENCE.  
REFERENCE has a voiting power of 16, while Primary only has 1 (or 8?).
REF will not change it's time so other PRI's will eventually converge to
the REF server.

Remember, If you have a REF or PRI, it needs a voting partner.  But you
should not ahve two REFs unless they are synced IDENTICALLY.

*********** Remove the REMOVE if emailing me directly **************
Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to  
reply to emails sent to my account.  Please post a followup instead.
********************************************************************
Hansang Bae        Director of Network Operations, Eastern Region  

Specializing in Network Design/Troubleshooting and Protocol Analysis
********************************************************************

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Ken Agres » Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:00:00




<snip>

Quote:>REFERENCE has a voiting power of 16, while Primary only has 1 (or 8?).

It's been a long, long time, but I thought a Reference had a vote of
12.  I do know that a Primary has 1 vote.

Ken Agress/CNE
Note - While I may reply to direct e-mails, if you really
want an answer, please post to the Newsgroups.
Please note that my e-mail address has changed.

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Mark H. Woo » Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:00:00




>>I wish Novell had never used that word "primary" since it's so
>>confusing.  SINGLE (if you have only one) or REFERENCE (if you want
>>redundancy) is the highest level of the time sync. hierarchy in
>>Netware.  PRIMARY servers want to get their time from a SINGLE or
>>REFERENCE server but will redistribute it to SECONDARY servers.
>>Nobody but clients will trust a SECONDARY.

>>I've seen quite knowledgable people stumble over this bit of
>>terminology.

> Alas..... et tu Brute?

> SINGLE is mutially exclusive with PRIMARY OR REFERENCE.  
> REFERENCE has a voiting power of 16, while Primary only has 1 (or 8?).
> REF will not change it's time so other PRI's will eventually converge to
> the REF server.

What can I say?  A while back, I got a call from one of the corporate
networking guys, someone whose opinion I trust.  He was scanning the
timesync report in DSREPAIR and saw that I had a PRIMARY.  He felt it
was inappropriate for a departmental server to be providing time for
the whole corp. net.  I had to explain that PRIMARY doesn't mean what
it looks like; that his pair of REFERENCE servers were the(1) ones
that provide time to the others and that my PRIMARY server(2)
redistributes that time to our other departmental servers so we don't
hit his REFERENCE boxes so much.

Theoretically 33 PRIMARY servers that all pretty much agreed on the
*wrong* time could outvote the REFERENCE servers, but I don't expect
to live long enough to see it make a significant difference in
anyone's life.  In our tree there *are* no other PRIMARY servers, so
my box is never going to win an argument.

Thanks for pointing out some of the internal details of time sync.

---------------
1.  I actually wrote the word "primary" here at first.  See how
    confusing it is?

2.  I still want to write "primarily" here.  I had to oversimplify the
    operation of a PRIMARY server to prevent overcomplicating my sentence.

--

"Where's the kaboom?  There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"
         -- Marvin Martian, 01/01/2000 00:00:00

 
 
 

Time sync between NT and NetWare servers

Post by Hansang Ba » Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:00:00



[snip]

Quote:>Thanks for pointing out some of the internal details of time sync.
>---------------
>1.  I actually wrote the word "primary" here at first.  See how
>    confusing it is?
>2.  I still want to write "primarily" here.  I had to oversimplify the
>    operation of a PRIMARY server to prevent overcomplicating my sentence.

You think *THIS* is confusing:  Novell's doc has an example of using a
(their words: Single Reference Time server.  In this case, the word
Single == One, as in singular.  They meant to say "the one and only one
Reference server.  NOT that it was a Single Reference Time server.
Aspirin, anyone?

*********** Remove the REMOVE if emailing me directly **************
Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to  
reply to emails sent to my account.  Please post a followup instead.
********************************************************************
Hansang Bae        Director of Network Operations, Eastern Region  

Specializing in Network Design/Troubleshooting and Protocol Analysis
********************************************************************

 
 
 

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------------------------------------------------
Paul Ponting - Communications Support Analyst
Certified Netware Administrator. CNA-4, CNE-4 2B


www   : http://www.pponting.demon.co.uk

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