Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by George Brook » Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:00:00



Can I use Exchange 5.5 to contact my ISP periodically to get mail and
deliver it to my Exchange mailbox?  I know that I can do it with the
client, but I would rather do it with the server.  I also know that I
can have my mail automatically forwarded.

Thanks,
George

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:00:00


[This followup was posted to microsoft.public.exchange.setup and a copy
was sent to the cited author.]

In article


Quote:> Can I use Exchange 5.5 to contact my ISP periodically to get mail and
> deliver it to my Exchange mailbox?  I know that I can do it with the
> client, but I would rather do it with the server.  I also know that I
> can have my mail automatically forwarded.

The short answer is no.

The long answer is that there are several packages that will allow you to
fetch mail from a POP3 mailbox and then toss it at Exchange Server's SMTP
port. Some are commercial products. Pullmail and Email Retriever are
freeware.

<< soap-box mode ON >>

And why Microsoft chose to neglect this extremely popular, simple, and
efficient way to fetch mail via a dial-up connection is quite beyond me.

Yes, I've heard all the arguments against using POP3 as a means to get
mail into Exchange Server, and it still doesn't wash. In MY market
segment (small business) dial-up connectivity is the norm (full time
connections being prohibitively expensive) and finding an ISP who can, or
will, deal with dial-up SMTP issues is tough. More to the point, why
should I or my customers HAVE to seek out such a provider, when a POP3
domain mailbox is so dirt simple to deal with?

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Scott W. Petersen - N9S » Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Why not?  I am doing this with 5.0 is there something wrong with 5.5?

Your ISP just has to give you the command to tell the ISP you are
ready to receive mail and that command can be different for each ISP.

Time for UNIX if you ask me.



>[This followup was posted to microsoft.public.exchange.setup and a copy
>was sent to the cited author.]

>In article


>> Can I use Exchange 5.5 to contact my ISP periodically to get mail and
>> deliver it to my Exchange mailbox?  I know that I can do it with the
>> client, but I would rather do it with the server.  I also know that I
>> can have my mail automatically forwarded.

>The short answer is no.

>The long answer is that there are several packages that will allow you to
>fetch mail from a POP3 mailbox and then toss it at Exchange Server's SMTP
>port. Some are commercial products. Pullmail and Email Retriever are
>freeware.

><< soap-box mode ON >>

>And why Microsoft chose to neglect this extremely popular, simple, and
>efficient way to fetch mail via a dial-up connection is quite beyond me.

>Yes, I've heard all the arguments against using POP3 as a means to get
>mail into Exchange Server, and it still doesn't wash. In MY market
>segment (small business) dial-up connectivity is the norm (full time
>connections being prohibitively expensive) and finding an ISP who can, or
>will, deal with dial-up SMTP issues is tough. More to the point, why
>should I or my customers HAVE to seek out such a provider, when a POP3
>domain mailbox is so dirt simple to deal with?

-------------------------------
Scott W. Petersen - N9SLA
Web Page:  www.wwa.com/~scooter
Elgin, IL - USA
Packet E-mail:

-------------------------------
Please remove *N*o*S*p*a*m* from my e-mail if you wish to reply.
 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Andy Web » Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Why don't the ISP's respond to the market pressure and provide a decent
service?  Microsoft wrote a product that has the capability to be used in a
dial-up manner.  Let the ISP fix the problem.

"Fetching" mail is unreliable and inefficient.  Since routing and delivery
information is lost (not all of it, but certainly some of it) when mail is
delivered to a POP mailbox, there is no reasonable way for a product to be
100% reliable here.

If I am a small business owner (which I am) I want that mail delivery to be
as reliable as possible.  The impact to me of missing one message is much
greater than the impact of Microsoft missing one message.  Why should I
settle for an ISP that doesn't care to serve my needs?

Dirt simple = dirt functionality in this case.  If mail is important to your
business, get something better than POP.  If the Exchange Server license is
valuable, then completing the picture with an appropriate connection seems
like a reasonable solution.

It does become a tradeoff.  If you don't need the features of Exchange
server, continue to use POP - it's probably suitable.  If you do find value
in the features of Exchange Server, why skimp on the ISP piece?

--
=======================================================
Andy Webb

Simpler-Webb, Inc.                Austin, TX     "Mauve has more RAM" -
Dilbert
=======================================================


>[This followup was posted to microsoft.public.exchange.setup and a copy
>was sent to the cited author.]

>In article


>> Can I use Exchange 5.5 to contact my ISP periodically to get mail and
>> deliver it to my Exchange mailbox?  I know that I can do it with the
>> client, but I would rather do it with the server.  I also know that I
>> can have my mail automatically forwarded.

>The short answer is no.

>The long answer is that there are several packages that will allow you to
>fetch mail from a POP3 mailbox and then toss it at Exchange Server's SMTP
>port. Some are commercial products. Pullmail and Email Retriever are
>freeware.

><< soap-box mode ON >>

>And why Microsoft chose to neglect this extremely popular, simple, and
>efficient way to fetch mail via a dial-up connection is quite beyond me.

>Yes, I've heard all the arguments against using POP3 as a means to get
>mail into Exchange Server, and it still doesn't wash. In MY market
>segment (small business) dial-up connectivity is the norm (full time
>connections being prohibitively expensive) and finding an ISP who can, or
>will, deal with dial-up SMTP issues is tough. More to the point, why
>should I or my customers HAVE to seek out such a provider, when a POP3
>domain mailbox is so dirt simple to deal with?

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Anthon » Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:00:00



><< soap-box mode ON >>

>And why Microsoft chose to neglect this extremely popular, simple, and
>efficient way to fetch mail via a dial-up connection is quite beyond me.

Read the Internet RFCs, and perhaps the reason will come within your grasp.

In short, POP3 is a _client_ protocol, not a _server_ protocol, and so it is
not supported by Exchange _Server_, although it is supported by Microsoft
e-mail _clients_ such as Outlook.  Microsoft makes the important distinction
between clients and servers, just like the RFCs upon which Internet mail is
based.  I see no mystery here.

Quote:>Yes, I've heard all the arguments against using POP3 as a means to get
>mail into Exchange Server, and it still doesn't wash.

Exchange Server uses SMTP exclusively to exchange mail with other Internet
mailers, in complete conformance with the Internet RFCs that define the
protocols for transfer of Internet mail.  Are you opposed to a
standards-based messaging solution?

Quote:>In MY market segment (small business) dial-up connectivity is
>the norm (full time connections being prohibitively expensive)
>and finding an ISP who can, or will, deal with dial-up SMTP issues
>is tough.

Then an untapped market is just waiting for ISPs who have the competence and
will to expend the effort to do things right for their customers.

Quote:>More to the point, why should I or my customers HAVE to seek
>out such a provider, when a POP3 domain mailbox is so dirt
>simple to deal with?

Because there is enormous value in adhering to standards and doing things
right the first time.  Some companies recognize this, and others don't.

All Internet mailers work this way, because they all use SMTP, by
definition.  Exchange is not an exception to the rule.

--
Anthony

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Anthon » Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:00:00


What you are doing is not the same thing.  The ETRN extension to SMTP is
fully supported in both directions by Exchange, beginning with Exchange 5.0
SP1.  That is very different from pretending to be a client with POP3.

--
Anthony



>Why not?  I am doing this with 5.0 is there something wrong with 5.5?

>Your ISP just has to give you the command to tell the ISP you are
>ready to receive mail and that command can be different for each ISP.

>Time for UNIX if you ask me.



>>[This followup was posted to microsoft.public.exchange.setup and a copy
>>was sent to the cited author.]

>>In article


>>> Can I use Exchange 5.5 to contact my ISP periodically to get mail and
>>> deliver it to my Exchange mailbox?  I know that I can do it with the
>>> client, but I would rather do it with the server.  I also know that I
>>> can have my mail automatically forwarded.

>>The short answer is no.

>>The long answer is that there are several packages that will allow you to
>>fetch mail from a POP3 mailbox and then toss it at Exchange Server's SMTP
>>port. Some are commercial products. Pullmail and Email Retriever are
>>freeware.

>><< soap-box mode ON >>

>>And why Microsoft chose to neglect this extremely popular, simple, and
>>efficient way to fetch mail via a dial-up connection is quite beyond me.

>>Yes, I've heard all the arguments against using POP3 as a means to get
>>mail into Exchange Server, and it still doesn't wash. In MY market
>>segment (small business) dial-up connectivity is the norm (full time
>>connections being prohibitively expensive) and finding an ISP who can, or
>>will, deal with dial-up SMTP issues is tough. More to the point, why
>>should I or my customers HAVE to seek out such a provider, when a POP3
>>domain mailbox is so dirt simple to deal with?

>-------------------------------
>Scott W. Petersen - N9SLA
>Web Page:  www.wwa.com/~scooter
>Elgin, IL - USA
>Packet E-mail:

>-------------------------------
>Please remove *N*o*S*p*a*m* from my e-mail if you wish to reply.

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Amiri Jone » Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:00:00




Quote:> I'm gonna have to get the FAQ updated or just create a boiler-plate
> reply to such questions.

        Better yet, Microsoft should include an explanation of the difference
between SMTP and POP3 as they relate to Exchange Server in the
documentation for said product.

Quote:> No.

        That sounds like a good boilerplate to me!! <G>
 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Anthon » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00



Quote:> Better yet, Microsoft should include an explanation of the difference
>between SMTP and POP3 as they relate to Exchange Server in the
>documentation for said product.

Anyone implementing a mail server for an enterprise should already know the
difference.  Exchange Server is not intended for administration by people
who have never touched an e-mail system before.

--
Anthony

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by Anthon » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00


I should have qualified it with respect to gateways.  If you want to connect
Exchange to the Internet, for example, it is assumed that you know how SMTP
mail works; if you want to connect it to an X.400 provider, it is assumed
that you know how X.400 works.  As far as I can remember, nothing in the
Exchange documentation explains how these e-mail protocols work, just as
nothing in Microsoft Word tells you how to write a research paper or annual
report.

--
Anthony






>>> Better yet, Microsoft should include an explanation of the difference
>>>between SMTP and POP3 as they relate to Exchange Server in the
>>>documentation for said product.

>>Anyone implementing a mail server for an enterprise should already know
the
>>difference.  Exchange Server is not intended for administration by people
>>who have never touched an e-mail system before.

>I would prefer that wording read "Exchange server is not intended for
>administration by persons who are unwilling to research their system."

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00



says...

Quote:> Why not?  I am doing this with 5.0 is there something wrong with 5.5?

Uh..., sorry? You reply out of context and I'm confused. Why not _what_?

Quote:

> Your ISP just has to give you the command to tell the ISP you are
> ready to receive mail and that command can be different for each ISP.

> Time for UNIX if you ask me.

I have nothing against *nix. I've been a big fan of the Linux project for
years. But I fail to see why I should even CONSIDER setting up a unix box
to solve one piddly problem that Microsoft SHOULD have allowed for when
they first started thinking about the small business market and offering
so much other functionality over a dial-up connection.  
 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00




Quote:> Why don't the ISP's respond to the market pressure and provide a decent
> service?  Microsoft wrote a product that has the capability to be used in a
> dial-up manner.  Let the ISP fix the problem.

Sorry, that dog don't hunt, son. The ISP has no problem to fix. I've been
using a domain POP3 mailbox to deliver mail to flatline.com for quite
some time, with no problems whatsoever. It is absurdly easy to deal with.

I should qualify this discussion by describing my perspective. My
experience with Exchange Server is almost solely with the SBS product.
Given Microsoft's stated target market, they've ignored a very easy
solution for my customers' e-mail connectivity needs. These are small
shops (<25 users) with very simple setups. There is, quite simply, no
earthly reason why they need any of the additional functionality that
comes with the ability to receive their mail via SMTP. On the contrary,
there are valid reasons why they shouldn't have to mess with it.

Quote:

> "Fetching" mail is unreliable and inefficient.  Since routing and delivery
> information is lost (not all of it, but certainly some of it) when mail is
> delivered to a POP mailbox, there is no reasonable way for a product to be
> 100% reliable here.

My experience is otherwise. Yes, broken mail software could manage to get
things to a domain maibox that wouldn't be able to find there way to
users past that point. I don't think I need to make allowances for them.
Nor do my customers. Your mileage may vary. That's a call we shouldn't
make for each other.

Quote:

> If I am a small business owner (which I am) I want that mail delivery to be
> as reliable as possible.  The impact to me of missing one message is much
> greater than the impact of Microsoft missing one message.  Why should I
> settle for an ISP that doesn't care to serve my needs?

Why should ANY of us? By the same line of reasoning, why isn't Microsoft
providing for our needs by providing POP3 connectivity? Third parties
have certainly seen that need and are making money filling the void.
 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00




Quote:> >More to the point, why should I or my customers HAVE to seek
> >out such a provider, when a POP3 domain mailbox is so dirt
> >simple to deal with?

> Because there is enormous value in adhering to standards and doing things
> right the first time.  Some companies recognize this, and others don't.

> All Internet mailers work this way, because they all use SMTP, by
> definition.  Exchange is not an exception to the rule.

This is false. We can split hairs over just what is an "internet mailer"
if you insist, but there are several (Mercury32 leaps to mind) that offer
the capability I've talked about. Standards compliance aside, the thing
just works, provided one doesn't make demands of it that it wasn't
designed to handle.

Why would it be so damning for Microsoft to add a feature that
accomplishes the same thing for Exchange Server?

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00






> > Better yet, Microsoft should include an explanation of the difference
> >between SMTP and POP3 as they relate to Exchange Server in the
> >documentation for said product.

> Anyone implementing a mail server for an enterprise should already know the
> difference.  Exchange Server is not intended for administration by people
> who have never touched an e-mail system before.

Time out.

This is the same kind of BS arrogance that I so detest in the typical
unix-jock defense of some powerful but cryptic tool like vi; "If you
can't figure out how to run vi, you shouldn't OWN a unix system, dude".

ESPECIALLY with the delivery of SBS, it appears that Microsoft does
indeed "intend" for Exchange Server to be administered by just such un-
sanctified losers.

I shouldn't HAVE to figure out how to run vi to appreciate certain
features of unix. I shouln't HAVE to exploit all the features of Exchange
Server to use the ones I want or need to use.

 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00


[This followup was posted to microsoft.public.exchange.setup and a copy
was sent to the cited author.]


Quote:> Here we go again, guys.

You aren't paying attention...

Quote:

> >I should qualify this discussion by describing my perspective. My
> >experience with Exchange Server is almost solely with the SBS product.
> >Given Microsoft's stated target market, they've ignored a very easy
> >solution for my customers' e-mail connectivity needs. These are small
> >shops (<25 users) with very simple setups. There is, quite simply, no
> >earthly reason why they need any of the additional functionality that
> >comes with the ability to receive their mail via SMTP. On the contrary,
> >there are valid reasons why they shouldn't have to mess with it.

> There are equally valid reasons why they shouldn't do it. Such as loss
> of message routing fidelity when an "alternative solution" is used to
> retrieve POP3 mail and redirect it to an SMTP server.

Just what ARE these equally valid reasons? Can you give us a scenario
where an RFC compliant mail message (sent by something written in this
decade) does NOT get to its intended recipient via this gawdawful setup
(POP3 Domain mailbox) that I haven't managed see fail yet?
 
 
 

Can Exchange Server get POP mail from ISP?

Post by John Nels » Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

> >This is false. We can split hairs over just what is an "internet mailer"
> >if you insist, but there are several (Mercury32 leaps to mind) that offer
> >the capability I've talked about. Standards compliance aside, the thing
> >just works, provided one doesn't make demands of it that it wasn't
> >designed to handle.

> "Standards compliance aside"??? The only reason the internet works at
> all is because of standards.

Stick with us here. Quoting out of context only wastes our time. The
POINT is, the thing works, doesn't produce broken mail, etc. HOW it does
this is of secondary importance as long as the end result is the desired
functionality. I believe I also qualified this scenario with a limiting
the demands place on the setup. The end result is, out of both ends, a
simple and functional mail transport.
 
 
 

1. Getting Mail from ISP pop mail.

Is there a way to have my exchange server automatically retrieve mail from
my ISP and route it to the proper mail recipient.  I have 4 mail accounts
setup with my ISP and the internet mail client set up on the OL2000 clients.
This works fine, however, I would like to have my exchange server get mail
from these accounts and pass it on.

I know that I can have Exchange be my pop mail server, however, that
requires a fixed IP address etc. and I don't have that $$$ luxury right now.

Thanks
Rob

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