which RFC uses IMS

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Eico Neuman » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00



Hello,

which RFC does the Internet Mail Service use?

RFC821 or RFC822?

Thanks for your help

Eico Neumann

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Chris Scharf » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>Hello,

>which RFC does the Internet Mail Service use?

>RFC821 or RFC822?

Not sure I understand the question.

--
Chris Scharff, MVP-Exchange
Senior Systems Consultant
Simpler-Webb, Inc.

Exchange FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Slava Plyushchiko » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00


I guess both (four).

According to MSDN IMC uses:

RFC-821 (specifies the exchange protocol and is the basis for SMTP)

RFC-822 (specifies the message format)

RFC 1521 ((MIME) works with RFC-822)

RFC-1154 (for attachment support)

In your style of question, I would say that it "uses" more RFC 822 regarding
message format then RFC 821, but it will understand RFC 821 message style
and translate it properly.

Regards,
Slava.


Quote:> Hello,

> which RFC does the Internet Mail Service use?

> RFC821 or RFC822?

> Thanks for your help

> Eico Neumann

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Rich Matheisen [MVP » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00



>which RFC does the Internet Mail Service use?

>RFC821 or RFC822?

RFC822 describes the format and content of the message body and
headers.

RFC821 describes the SMTP protocol.

Strctly speaking, Exchange 5.5 uses IMAIL to convert the message
contents, and IMAIL is part of the Informatins Store -- so RFC821 is
probably the best answer to this question.

------------------
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Eico Neuman » Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:00





> >which RFC does the Internet Mail Service use?

> >RFC821 or RFC822?

> RFC822 describes the format and content of the message body and
> headers.

> RFC821 describes the SMTP protocol.

> Strctly speaking, Exchange 5.5 uses IMAIL to convert the message
> contents, and IMAIL is part of the Informatins Store -- so RFC821 is
> probably the best answer to this question.

Thanks for your answer.
We want to connect a Lotus Domino Server with Exchange, and the Domino Guys
asked me which RFC Exchange follows. There is some sort of switch, to let
Domino talk 822 or 821 if I understood them right.

Eico Neumann

Quote:

> ------------------
> Rich Matheisen
> MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
> MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Chris Scharf » Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>Thanks for your answer.
>We want to connect a Lotus Domino Server with Exchange, and the Domino Guys
>asked me which RFC Exchange follows. There is some sort of switch, to let
>Domino talk 822 or 821 if I understood them right.

Nah, I think the Domino guys are probably just clueless.

--
Chris Scharff, MVP-Exchange
Senior Systems Consultant
Simpler-Webb, Inc.

Exchange FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Slava Plyushchiko » Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:00


May be the Domino guys are not so lost.

I am not very good in E/S connectivity issues, but let me tell this.

Mr. Eico Neumann made the good points:

1. RFC821 has nothing to do with the message format, only the transmission
protocol.

2. Exchange Server 5.5 IMS has a different from previous E/S 4 IMC
architecture, since IMAIL now is a part of the IS. Thus, we cannot say now
that IMS is involved in message format parsing/conversion and, subsequently,
has anything to do with RFC822.

For me everything is correct here.

However, from certain position RFC 821 commands may provide the message
format information.
For example, whatever goes after the "MAIL FROM" in SMTP conversation (RFC
821) has similar meaning to the "From:" header field in the message (RFC
822). May be the Domino Guys just need to know what will appear in the
message "From:", when user will open it finally in his mailbox, and they are
going to specify the "correct" value in only one case.

Vivid imagination, but read the "SYMPTOMS" part of the MSDN KB Q152930.
Does it make a feeling that RFC 821 and RFC 822 has some overlapping things
from some point of view?

I guess, if the Domino Guys have some sort of RFC 822 - RFC 821 switch, the
only explanation is that in the "RFC 821" mode they will suppress some RFC
822 message header fields and will expect Exchange Server to pick them up
from the SMTP conversation.

What do you think. Did I go too far?

Regards,
Slava.




> >Thanks for your answer.
> >We want to connect a Lotus Domino Server with Exchange, and the Domino
Guys
> >asked me which RFC Exchange follows. There is some sort of switch, to let
> >Domino talk 822 or 821 if I understood them right.

> Nah, I think the Domino guys are probably just clueless.

> --
> Chris Scharff, MVP-Exchange
> Senior Systems Consultant
> Simpler-Webb, Inc.

> Exchange FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Slava Plyushchiko » Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:00


Oops, my mistake.

The line

Quote:> Mr. Eico Neumann made the good points:

should be

Quote:> Mr. Rich Matheisen made the good points:

Sorry.

Slava.


> May be the Domino guys are not so lost.

> I am not very good in E/S connectivity issues, but let me tell this.

> Mr. Eico Neumann made the good points:

> 1. RFC821 has nothing to do with the message format, only the transmission
> protocol.

> 2. Exchange Server 5.5 IMS has a different from previous E/S 4 IMC
> architecture, since IMAIL now is a part of the IS. Thus, we cannot say now
> that IMS is involved in message format parsing/conversion and,
subsequently,
> has anything to do with RFC822.

> For me everything is correct here.

> However, from certain position RFC 821 commands may provide the message
> format information.
> For example, whatever goes after the "MAIL FROM" in SMTP conversation (RFC
> 821) has similar meaning to the "From:" header field in the message (RFC
> 822). May be the Domino Guys just need to know what will appear in the
> message "From:", when user will open it finally in his mailbox, and they
are
> going to specify the "correct" value in only one case.

> Vivid imagination, but read the "SYMPTOMS" part of the MSDN KB Q152930.
> Does it make a feeling that RFC 821 and RFC 822 has some overlapping
things
> from some point of view?

> I guess, if the Domino Guys have some sort of RFC 822 - RFC 821 switch,
the
> only explanation is that in the "RFC 821" mode they will suppress some RFC
> 822 message header fields and will expect Exchange Server to pick them up
> from the SMTP conversation.

> What do you think. Did I go too far?

> Regards,
> Slava.





> > >Thanks for your answer.
> > >We want to connect a Lotus Domino Server with Exchange, and the Domino
> Guys
> > >asked me which RFC Exchange follows. There is some sort of switch, to
let
> > >Domino talk 822 or 821 if I understood them right.

> > Nah, I think the Domino guys are probably just clueless.

> > --
> > Chris Scharff, MVP-Exchange
> > Senior Systems Consultant
> > Simpler-Webb, Inc.

> > Exchange FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Chris Scharf » Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:00


On Thu, 25 May 2000 10:47:07 -0500,  "Slava Plyushchikov"


>May be the Domino guys are not so lost.

Nah, I think they're still lost.

Quote:>I am not very good in E/S connectivity issues, but let me tell this.

>Mr. Eico Neumann made the good points:

>1. RFC821 has nothing to do with the message format, only the transmission
>protocol.

>2. Exchange Server 5.5 IMS has a different from previous E/S 4 IMC
>architecture, since IMAIL now is a part of the IS. Thus, we cannot say now
>that IMS is involved in message format parsing/conversion and, subsequently,
>has anything to do with RFC822.

>For me everything is correct here.

>However, from certain position RFC 821 commands may provide the message
>format information.
>For example, whatever goes after the "MAIL FROM" in SMTP conversation (RFC
>821) has similar meaning to the "From:" header field in the message (RFC
>822). May be the Domino Guys just need to know what will appear in the
>message "From:", when user will open it finally in his mailbox, and they are
>going to specify the "correct" value in only one case.

>Vivid imagination, but read the "SYMPTOMS" part of the MSDN KB Q152930.
>Does it make a feeling that RFC 821 and RFC 822 has some overlapping things
>from some point of view?

Well, they overlap in that they both describe the basic transport of a
message via SMTP, but Q152930 describes a bug which was already fixed.

Quote:>I guess, if the Domino Guys have some sort of RFC 822 - RFC 821 switch, the
>only explanation is that in the "RFC 821" mode they will suppress some RFC
>822 message header fields and will expect Exchange Server to pick them up
>from the SMTP conversation.

>What do you think. Did I go too far?

It's just SMTP mail... I guess if they wanted to know if Exchange
supported MIME or UUENCODE that might make sense, but RFC821 vs
RFC822? Doesn't seem to me to make any sense.

--
Chris Scharff, MVP-Exchange
Senior Systems Consultant
Simpler-Webb, Inc.

Exchange FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Rich Matheisen [MVP » Sat, 27 May 2000 04:00:00



>May be the Domino guys are not so lost.

I have to agree with Chris on this one. All the "Domino guys" need to
know is that Exchange conforms to RFC821 and RFC1123 for basic SMTP.

RFC822 deals with the message body and headers. Those headers are used
by the transmitting UA to compose the "MAIL FROM" and "RCPT TO"
commands. That's all that's required by SMTP. This is the message
"envelope" or the "P1" header in X.400.

The message body is a different story altogether. The message body is
enclosed in the envelope. It's the "P2" or "P22" message part in
X.400. But SMTP doesn't do anything with the message body.

Quote:>I am not very good in E/S connectivity issues, but let me tell this.

>Mr. Eico Neumann made the good points:

>1. RFC821 has nothing to do with the message format, only the transmission
>protocol.

Correct.

Quote:>2. Exchange Server 5.5 IMS has a different from previous E/S 4 IMC
>architecture, since IMAIL now is a part of the IS. Thus, we cannot say now
>that IMS is involved in message format parsing/conversion and, subsequently,
>has anything to do with RFC822.

Where the conversion takes place isn't important. IMAIL was always
used to convert the message content. It just moved from the IMS to the
STORE to improve performance in Exchange 5.0 and to handle content
conversion for NNTP, POP3 (and IMAP in 5.5). In the process it was
renamed to IMAIL2.

Quote:>For me everything is correct here.

>However, from certain position RFC 821 commands may provide the message
>format information.

RFC821 is silent on the message body except for the "Received:"
header.

Quote:>For example, whatever goes after the "MAIL FROM" in SMTP conversation (RFC
>821) has similar meaning to the "From:" header field in the message (RFC
>822).

Whatever appears in the "From:" header is never to be trusted (nor is
the contents of the "To:" header. Spammers know this all too well.

If this set of data was passed to a SMTP server, could you tell who
sent it and who should have received it? The information conforms to
RFC821 ans RFC822:



  DATA


  Subject: Fooled ya!

  .
  QUIT

Quote:>May be the Domino Guys just need to know what will appear in the
>message "From:", when user will open it finally in his mailbox, and they are
>going to specify the "correct" value in only one case.

>Vivid imagination, but read the "SYMPTOMS" part of the MSDN KB Q152930.

That's pretty old.

Quote:>Does it make a feeling that RFC 821 and RFC 822 has some overlapping things
>from some point of view?

Perhaps with Exchange 4.0 it did.

Quote:>I guess, if the Domino Guys have some sort of RFC 822 - RFC 821 switch, the
>only explanation is that in the "RFC 821" mode they will suppress some RFC
>822 message header fields and will expect Exchange Server to pick them up
>from the SMTP conversation.

They'd be badly mistaken if they expected that to happen. Perhaps with
sendmail, where the thing acts as both MTA and Gateway?

Quote:>What do you think. Did I go too far?

I think you're reaching.

------------------
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Eico Neuman » Sat, 27 May 2000 04:00:00


Thank you all for your very informative Discussion.
I Think I do have to read the thread two or three times more to understand
all you said,
but this does help me in my next meeting :-)

Eico Neumann

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Slava Plyushchiko » Sat, 27 May 2000 04:00:00


Rich Matheisen,
Thank you for the clarification. I guess the issue in general is clear now.
I have the last small question:



> [...]
> Whatever appears in the "From:" header is never to be trusted (nor is
> the contents of the "To:" header. Spammers know this all too well.

> If this set of data was passed to a SMTP server, could you tell who
> sent it and who should have received it? The information conforms to
> RFC821 ans RFC822:



>   DATA


>   Subject: Fooled ya!

>   .
>   QUIT
> [...]

Does this mean that when the Exchange Server 5.5 (an opposite to E/S 4?)
receives the above mentioned message, the addresses will be


, not the


when I open this message later in my MS OL 2000?

I thought that E/S 5.5 relies on RFC822 here. If the source is FRC821, how
such thing as "Forward message (to the SMTP address of the outside-of-my-org
E/S 5.5 mailbox) with the method <leave message intact>" is possible? It
forwards a message to the new destination, yet preserving the original TO
and FROM.

Regards,
Slava.

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Chris Scharf » Sat, 27 May 2000 04:00:00


On Fri, 26 May 2000 10:48:05 -0500,  "Slava Plyushchikov"


>Rich Matheisen,
>Thank you for the clarification. I guess the issue in general is clear now.
>I have the last small question:



>> [...]
>> Whatever appears in the "From:" header is never to be trusted (nor is
>> the contents of the "To:" header. Spammers know this all too well.

>> If this set of data was passed to a SMTP server, could you tell who
>> sent it and who should have received it? The information conforms to
>> RFC821 ans RFC822:



>>   DATA


>>   Subject: Fooled ya!

>>   .
>>   QUIT
>> [...]

>Does this mean that when the Exchange Server 5.5 (an opposite to E/S 4?)

It would be the same in both,

>receives the above mentioned message, the addresses will be


>, not the


>when I open this message later in my MS OL 2000?


Quote:>I thought that E/S 5.5 relies on RFC822 here. If the source is FRC821, how
>such thing as "Forward message (to the SMTP address of the outside-of-my-org
>E/S 5.5 mailbox) with the method <leave message intact>" is possible? It
>forwards a message to the new destination, yet preserving the original TO
>and FROM.

It preserves the RFC822 headers.
 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Slava Plyushchiko » Sat, 27 May 2000 04:00:00


Thank you, Chris and Rich for the information.
It was a good discussion thread.
I have no regrets that I started looking into some IT oriented Exchange
newsgroups, outside my "home" developers'
microsoft.public.platformsdk.messaging. Now I am learning even more new
things everyday then before.

Regards,
Slava.


> On Fri, 26 May 2000 10:48:05 -0500,  "Slava Plyushchikov"

> >Rich Matheisen,
> >Thank you for the clarification. I guess the issue in general is clear
now.
> >I have the last small question:



> >> [...]
> >> Whatever appears in the "From:" header is never to be trusted (nor is
> >> the contents of the "To:" header. Spammers know this all too well.

> >> If this set of data was passed to a SMTP server, could you tell who
> >> sent it and who should have received it? The information conforms to
> >> RFC821 ans RFC822:



> >>   DATA


> >>   Subject: Fooled ya!

> >>   .
> >>   QUIT
> >> [...]

> >Does this mean that when the Exchange Server 5.5 (an opposite to E/S 4?)

> It would be the same in both,

> >receives the above mentioned message, the addresses will be


> >, not the


> >when I open this message later in my MS OL 2000?


> >I thought that E/S 5.5 relies on RFC822 here. If the source is FRC821,
how
> >such thing as "Forward message (to the SMTP address of the
outside-of-my-org
> >E/S 5.5 mailbox) with the method <leave message intact>" is possible? It
> >forwards a message to the new destination, yet preserving the original TO
> >and FROM.

> It preserves the RFC822 headers.

 
 
 

which RFC uses IMS

Post by Rich Matheisen [MVP » Sat, 27 May 2000 04:00:00


                                        [ snip ]



>>   DATA


>>   Subject: Fooled ya!

>>   .
>>   QUIT
>> [...]

>Does this mean that when the Exchange Server 5.5 (an opposite to E/S 4?)
>receives the above mentioned message, the addresses will be



No, not at all. That was my point: the RFC822 headers are
untrustworthy.

>, not the


>when I open this message later in my MS OL 2000?

Nope, the message will appear to be from Herbert to "criminal".

Quote:>I thought that E/S 5.5 relies on RFC822 here.

It does. That's why you'll see things like that!

Quote:>If the source is FRC821, how
>such thing as "Forward message (to the SMTP address of the outside-of-my-org
>E/S 5.5 mailbox) with the method <leave message intact>" is possible? It
>forwards a message to the new destination, yet preserving the original TO
>and FROM.

That happens because the original message body is undisturbed -- it's
RFC822. The RFC821 MAIL FROM and RCPT TO control the message delivery.

------------------
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm

 
 
 

1. Exchange 5.5 IMS behaviour not RFC compliant?

BUG REPORT (TO: Anyone in the Exchange Group)

I am observing an unsatisfactory behaviour in the Exchange v.5.5 IMS:

There exists a mail domain for which there are two MX records.  The server
with the lowest valued  MX record (10) has a service on port 25 to which the
IMS can connect, but it never sends the SMTP banner (or any subsequent
dialog).  The second server (with a higher valued MX record: 20) does accept
and deliver mail for the domain if the mail is explicitly directed to it.

The Exchange 5.5 IMS, however, never tries the second server.  Exchange
reports:

"A timeout occurred while trying to deliver mail to 10.1.1.1 (for
mail.xxxx.xxx). Undelivered mail will be retried later. The timeout occurred
while waiting for the sign-on banner."  This process repeats until
eventually the message is NDR'd back to the originator.

Unfortunately RFC974 only states:

"Implementors are encouraged to write mailers so that they try the MXs in
order until one of the MXs accepts the message, or all the MXs have been
tried."

it does not *require* this behaviour.  RFC1123 states:

"To provide reliable mail transmission, the sender-SMTP MUST be able to try
(and retry) each of the addresses in this list in order, until a delivery
attempt succeeds."

The Exchange IMS is NOT trying any server other than the one associated with
lowest valued MX record.  I believe that this is a non conformance and needs
to be remedied.  Sendmail, interestingly, *does* deliver the message to the
second server.

AB.
--

MCSE

2. Problem after moving server with Outllook 2000

3. Error starting IMS-service when using IMS Wizard.

4. Outlook object model

5. Exhange Upgrade

6. My admin inbox is increasing by ten every second!!!!

7. Exchange Site IMS to Site IMS connection not using the internet

8. Exchange 5.5: connecting multiple sites using IMS, or via Internet HELP

9. using IMS?