ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Janek Czeka » Sun, 10 Jan 1999 04:00:00



Hi,

Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing up the
Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

From what Ive read the Information Store is a live database much in the
same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with Microsoft
SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked before a
reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing this.

However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC software
which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar plug-in
for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software that I
have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything extra in it
that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system to use
for backing up WINNT period?

I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun working
for? I dont think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

Any information gratefully received.

Janek.

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Chris Scharf » Sun, 10 Jan 1999 04:00:00


ArcServe makes an Exchange aware backup, as does Seagate. The version of NT
backup that comes with Exchange server is also exchange aware and capable of
offline backups. Finding a test server and restoring from tape is the best
way to make sure everything is going as expected.

Chris Scharff
Exchange Administrator
BV Solutions Group

#include std_disclaim.h

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Janek Czeka » Sun, 10 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Thanks Chris,


>ArcServe makes an Exchange aware backup, as does Seagate. The version of NT
>backup that comes with Exchange server is also exchange aware and capable
of
>offline backups. Finding a test server and restoring from tape is the best
>way to make sure everything is going as expected.

>Chris Scharff
>Exchange Administrator
>BV Solutions Group

>#include std_disclaim.h

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Douglas Buchana » Sun, 10 Jan 1999 04:00:00


I've used Arcserve 6.5 reliably on 5.0 and 5.5. This version and those above
it add a "brick" level backup, which allows single mailbox backup/restore
and thus provides speedier recovery. This is a solution for mailboxes of
critical importance [CEO, President, your own ;-) ]


Quote:>Hi,

>Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing up the
>Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

>From what Ive read the Information Store is a live database much in the
>same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with Microsoft
>SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked before a
>reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing this.

>However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC software
>which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar plug-in
>for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software that I
>have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
>Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

>How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
>back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything extra in
it
>that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system to use
>for backing up WINNT period?

>I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun
working
>for? I dont think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
>back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
>Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

>Any information gratefully received.

>Janek.

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Danny St. Ong » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00


The key to Backing up Exchange Servers is to understand that it is a
transactional database design.  The database is only consistent, when the
Exchange Services have been shut down gracefully.

Two types of backups
OnLine and Offline Backups.

Offline backups can be achieved with any file level backup software can
achieve this.  Problem with this software is that you do in fact have to
stop the Exchange Services before initiating the backup.  Another drawback
is that there is no error checking that during this type of backup, but does
not afford maximum recoverability from failures.  Benefits include: easy to
restore from offline backup

Online backups can be achieved with an Exchange Aware Backup Agent.  As
mentioned by others, you can use NT Backup that is part of NT (and is made
Exchange Aware by installing of the Admin Program) Seagate Backup Exec or
ArcServe.  Both Seagate and ArcServe require the purchase of the Exchange
Agent.  DO NOT BE FOOLED INTO BUYING ARCSERVE'S OPEN FILE AGENT, it is not
the same as the Exchange Agent. Legatto makes backup software and an
Exchange Agent, but I personally think that it causes more problems that it
is worth.

Online backups with Circular Logging disabled give you the most
recoverability possible.  Online backups interact with your Exchange
databases while the services are running and users are functioning, to
ensure an accurate backup.  Benefits include:  Direct reads made to each
page of the database,  backups without stopping services.

The disaster recovery whitepaper, on Microsoft's Web Site
(www.microsoft.com\exchange) will elaborate on some of these concepts.

Most people feel the need to purchase a 3rd Party Backup Software program,
because NTBackup is not intuitively schedulable.  To schedule backups with
NT Backup, you will need to utilize the Schedule Service and AT commands.

Hope this helps.....


Quote:>Hi,

>Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing up the
>Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

>From what Ive read the Information Store is a live database much in the
>same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with Microsoft
>SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked before a
>reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing this.

>However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC software
>which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar plug-in
>for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software that I
>have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
>Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

>How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
>back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything extra in
it
>that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system to use
>for backing up WINNT period?

>I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun
working
>for? I dont think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
>back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
>Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

>Any information gratefully received.

>Janek.

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Janek Czeka » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Danny/Douglas,

Thanks for both your imputs....

In particulalr, thanks Danny as your reply has proved my fears about the
ArcServe software which my company is using. They have only purchased the
'basic' ArcServe software and, as I suspected, this will not provide
reliable backups....

Unfortunately, they seem convinced that it WILL provide a reliable back-up.
Oh well, I've pointed this out to them and they don't seem too worried.

What is interesting it that they recently purchased the Exchange server from
Dell.  As far I am aware Dell is now shipping servers with Exchange
pre-installed WITH Seagate Backup Exec software. If this is the case I have
ot wonder why this particular company choose ArcServe over Seagate.

Thanks again,

Janek.


>The key to Backing up Exchange Servers is to understand that it is a
>transactional database design.  The database is only consistent, when the
>Exchange Services have been shut down gracefully.

>Two types of backups
>OnLine and Offline Backups.

>Offline backups can be achieved with any file level backup software can
>achieve this.  Problem with this software is that you do in fact have to
>stop the Exchange Services before initiating the backup.  Another drawback
>is that there is no error checking that during this type of backup, but
does
>not afford maximum recoverability from failures.  Benefits include: easy to
>restore from offline backup

>Online backups can be achieved with an Exchange Aware Backup Agent.  As
>mentioned by others, you can use NT Backup that is part of NT (and is made
>Exchange Aware by installing of the Admin Program) Seagate Backup Exec or
>ArcServe.  Both Seagate and ArcServe require the purchase of the Exchange
>Agent.  DO NOT BE FOOLED INTO BUYING ARCSERVE'S OPEN FILE AGENT, it is not
>the same as the Exchange Agent. Legatto makes backup software and an
>Exchange Agent, but I personally think that it causes more problems that it
>is worth.

>Online backups with Circular Logging disabled give you the most
>recoverability possible.  Online backups interact with your Exchange
>databases while the services are running and users are functioning, to
>ensure an accurate backup.  Benefits include:  Direct reads made to each
>page of the database,  backups without stopping services.

>The disaster recovery whitepaper, on Microsoft's Web Site
>(www.microsoft.com\exchange) will elaborate on some of these concepts.

>Most people feel the need to purchase a 3rd Party Backup Software program,
>because NTBackup is not intuitively schedulable.  To schedule backups with
>NT Backup, you will need to utilize the Schedule Service and AT commands.

>Hope this helps.....

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by RiZPc » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Very quickly, I too face this dilemma as to which is better....I've been
told that BE is easier than AS to install/work out/maintain etc, so our
company standard is BE. However, I do have AS running on one of the servers
and it seems to work well, though a little difficult (in my opinion) to
understand.

Kind Regards,
Rich


Quote:>Hi,

>Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing up the
>Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

>From what Ive read the Information Store is a live database much in the
>same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with Microsoft
>SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked before a
>reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing this.

>However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC software
>which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar plug-in
>for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software that I
>have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
>Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

>How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
>back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything extra in
it
>that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system to use
>for backing up WINNT period?

>I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun
working
>for? I dont think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
>back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
>Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

>Any information gratefully received.

>Janek.

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Andy Web » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Brick backup, though, requires significantly more time though - and did not
always back up the full mailbox when first released (does it now?).

A more practical alternative - regardless of which product you use (CA or
Seagate) is to use EXMerge to export (copy) the few mailboxes deemed
critical to PST files which can be backed up separately - and VERY quickly
recovered.

This gives you the benefit of fast, fully supported online backups of the
full Exchange server, and the fast recovery of a particular, critical,
mailbox.

--
=======================================================
Andy Webb

Simpler-Webb, Inc.                Austin, TX     "Mauve has more RAM" -
Dilbert
=======================================================

>I've used Arcserve 6.5 reliably on 5.0 and 5.5. This version and those
above
>it add a "brick" level backup, which allows single mailbox backup/restore
>and thus provides speedier recovery. This is a solution for mailboxes of
>critical importance [CEO, President, your own ;-) ]



>>Hi,

>>Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing up
the
>>Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

>>From what I've read the Information Store is a live database much in the
>>same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with
Microsoft
>>SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked before a
>>reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing this.

>>However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC software
>>which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar
plug-in
>>for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software that I
>>have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
>>Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

>>How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
>>back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything 'extra' in
>it
>>that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system to
use
>>for backing up WINNT - period?

>>I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun
>working
>>for? I don't think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
>>back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
>>Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

>>Any information gratefully received.

>>Janek.

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Elton Tucke » Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Without the exchange module arcserve will NOT backup your exchange server.
The only kind of backup you will be able to do is an offline which requires
the exchange services to be stopped.

Frankly, the decision makers responsible for that choice don't know what
they are talking about.  You'd be in a better position is they didn't buy
arcserve at all.  NTBackup on the exchange server will be modified to allow
for online backups and is free.

Elton Tucker MCSE ASE
Futurelink/Sysgold Ltd.
www.futurelink.net


>Danny/Douglas,

>Thanks for both your imputs....

>In particulalr, thanks Danny as your reply has proved my fears about the
>ArcServe software which my company is using. They have only purchased the
>'basic' ArcServe software and, as I suspected, this will not provide
>reliable backups....

>Unfortunately, they seem convinced that it WILL provide a reliable back-up.
>Oh well, I've pointed this out to them and they don't seem too worried.

>What is interesting it that they recently purchased the Exchange server
from
>Dell.  As far I am aware Dell is now shipping servers with Exchange
>pre-installed WITH Seagate Backup Exec software. If this is the case I have
>ot wonder why this particular company choose ArcServe over Seagate.

>Thanks again,

>Janek.


>>The key to Backing up Exchange Servers is to understand that it is a
>>transactional database design.  The database is only consistent, when the
>>Exchange Services have been shut down gracefully.

>>Two types of backups
>>OnLine and Offline Backups.

>>Offline backups can be achieved with any file level backup software can
>>achieve this.  Problem with this software is that you do in fact have to
>>stop the Exchange Services before initiating the backup.  Another drawback
>>is that there is no error checking that during this type of backup, but
>does
>>not afford maximum recoverability from failures.  Benefits include: easy
to
>>restore from offline backup

>>Online backups can be achieved with an Exchange Aware Backup Agent.  As
>>mentioned by others, you can use NT Backup that is part of NT (and is made
>>Exchange Aware by installing of the Admin Program) Seagate Backup Exec or
>>ArcServe.  Both Seagate and ArcServe require the purchase of the Exchange
>>Agent.  DO NOT BE FOOLED INTO BUYING ARCSERVE'S OPEN FILE AGENT, it is not
>>the same as the Exchange Agent. Legatto makes backup software and an
>>Exchange Agent, but I personally think that it causes more problems that
it
>>is worth.

>>Online backups with Circular Logging disabled give you the most
>>recoverability possible.  Online backups interact with your Exchange
>>databases while the services are running and users are functioning, to
>>ensure an accurate backup.  Benefits include:  Direct reads made to each
>>page of the database,  backups without stopping services.

>>The disaster recovery whitepaper, on Microsoft's Web Site
>>(www.microsoft.com\exchange) will elaborate on some of these concepts.

>>Most people feel the need to purchase a 3rd Party Backup Software program,
>>because NTBackup is not intuitively schedulable.  To schedule backups with
>>NT Backup, you will need to utilize the Schedule Service and AT commands.

>>Hope this helps.....

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Janek Czeka » Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Hi,

Thanks everyone for your imput on this matter....

I've also had many personal emails - the majority favouring Seagate over
ArcServe.... Unfortunately, the choice is out of my hands....

I agree with Elton's comments and have tried to explain this to the
organisation that I am contracting for. They seem totally against Seagate as
they claim, (this is one individual), that they have had enormous problems
with it in the past. I absolutely love Seagate and have personally found it
very reliable - epsecially its SQL plug-in.

I think it is a case of someone having made a decision to go with ArcServe
and now not wanting to backtrack on the matter. Interestingly, the tape
backups have now been placed in the charge of a guy who only started last
week and who, up until that point, had never done a tape backup in his life
before.... This is a major American financial institution by the way.... :-)

Have fun, be happy.

Jan.


>Very quickly, I too face this dilemma as to which is better....I've been
>told that BE is easier than AS to install/work out/maintain etc, so our
>company standard is BE. However, I do have AS running on one of the servers
>and it seems to work well, though a little difficult (in my opinion) to
>understand.

>Kind Regards,
>Rich



>>Hi,

>>Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing up
the
>>Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

>>From what Ive read the Information Store is a live database much in the
>>same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with
Microsoft
>>SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked before a
>>reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing this.

>>However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC software
>>which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar
plug-in
>>for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software that I
>>have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
>>Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

>>How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
>>back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything extra in
>it
>>that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system to
use
>>for backing up WINNT period?

>>I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun
>working
>>for? I dont think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
>>back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
>>Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

>>Any information gratefully received.

>>Janek.

 
 
 

ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Post by Lynn DeMa » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00


The ARCserve product is pretty darn good at backing up the system....so
I wouldn't worry about the product....you or the person in charge should
explore the www.CAI.com website and locate all necessary component
updates for the ARCserve product.  Your company should also look at the
Disastor Recovery Component of ARCserve.....this along with a complete
server backup makes a complete server recovery very easy...simple has
just loading a couple of boot disks and following the instructions.

ARCserve is a Enterprise Network backup solution and works very well.
Just goto the job status window, right click on the server computer and
then click properties....note the different versions and build no's of
each ARCserve component.......then goto the www.CAI.com website and look
at all of the updates that may or may not apply to your ARCserve
components.   Talk with CAI tech support for further assistance....they
are not to bad.

Take care and good luck with ARCserve.

-----Original Message-----

Posted At: Monday, January 11, 1999 2:27 PM
Posted To: admin
Conversation: ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?
Subject: Re: ArcServe versus Seagate for reliable back-ups?

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your imput on this matter....

I've also had many personal emails - the majority favouring Seagate over
ArcServe.... Unfortunately, the choice is out of my hands....

I agree with Elton's comments and have tried to explain this to the
organisation that I am contracting for. They seem totally against
Seagate as
they claim, (this is one individual), that they have had enormous
problems
with it in the past. I absolutely love Seagate and have personally found
it
very reliable - epsecially its SQL plug-in.

I think it is a case of someone having made a decision to go with
ArcServe
and now not wanting to backtrack on the matter. Interestingly, the tape
backups have now been placed in the charge of a guy who only started
last
week and who, up until that point, had never done a tape backup in his
life
before.... This is a major American financial institution by the way....
:-)

Have fun, be happy.

Jan.


>Very quickly, I too face this dilemma as to which is better....I've
been
>told that BE is easier than AS to install/work out/maintain etc, so our
>company standard is BE. However, I do have AS running on one of the
servers
>and it seems to work well, though a little difficult (in my opinion) to
>understand.

>Kind Regards,
>Rich



>>Hi,

>>Can anyone provide information on the following in regard to backing
up
the
>>Information Store on Exchange 5.5?

>>From what I've read the Information Store is a live database much in
the
>>same way as databases are on Microsoft SQL server. The thing with
Microsoft
>>SQL databases is that, in effect, they need to be shut or locked
before a
>>reliable back-up can take place. Microsoft has its own way of doing
this.

>>However, SEAGATE provide a very good add-in to their BACKUP EXEC
software
>>which accomplishes this very well. I notice that there is a similar
plug-in
>>for BACKUP EXEC for Exchange 5.5. This is the only back-up software
that I
>>have seen that claims to assist in reliable tape back-ups for the
>>Information Store.  So, my question(s) is this....?

>>How does ArcServe compare with Seagate when it comes to reliable tape
>>back-ups of the Information Store? Does ArcServe have anything 'extra'
in
>it
>>that is aimed towards Exchange 5.5 or is ArcServe just a good system
to
use
>>for backing up WINNT - period?

>>I ask this as I am concerned about a company which I have just begun
>working
>>for? I don't think, perhaps wrongly, that they really understand tape
>>back-ups and I am not certain that they are reliably backing up their
>>Information Store on 5.5? It could all end in tears ?

>>Any information gratefully received.

>>Janek.