NT authentication from a local windows NT 4.0 Wks to a NT Server 4.0

NT authentication from a local windows NT 4.0 Wks to a NT Server 4.0

Post by JO tehl » Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:59:58



Hi

Could someone please explain or lead me to where I can get further
information.

Scenerio:

I create a local user on an NT 4.0 Workstation , eg. test000

I create an account on a NT 4.0 Server (enterprise ed. a PDC) the id
and password as the workstation user id - the user belongs to the
domain users group.

I create a share on the server eg: d:\files with permission granted to
everyone.

Now I long into the workstation locally , without authenticating
outside, (ie using the local sam.)

I try mapping a drive to the NT server share, and the drive is mapped
automatically without any challege.

My question is why does this automatically happen ? aren't there two
separate SAM databases, on the local machine and the sam on the PDC??

However if I can change either password, (ie no longer in sync), only
then I get a challege.

Does this happen in WIN2K ????

THanks

Jo


 
 
 

NT authentication from a local windows NT 4.0 Wks to a NT Server 4.0

Post by What Eve » Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:19:27


NT to NT will pass the username & password of the logged in user to
authenticate if needed by default without user intervention.

This should explain why it works when both the username & passwords are the
same on both boxes.

If you change the password on one, & the other doesn't match, you will get a
box asking for the password, hence user intervention is required.

You say, you have a share, with the everyone permission, by default, you
also should have an NTFS permission of everyone as well.

This should let everbody into this share.

Is the partition a NTFS one, as if so, what are the permissions on it?

It is the same on win2K as well.


> Hi

> Could someone please explain or lead me to where I can get further
> information.

> Scenerio:

> I create a local user on an NT 4.0 Workstation , eg. test000

> I create an account on a NT 4.0 Server (enterprise ed. a PDC) the id
> and password as the workstation user id - the user belongs to the
> domain users group.

> I create a share on the server eg: d:\files with permission granted to
> everyone.

> Now I long into the workstation locally , without authenticating
> outside, (ie using the local sam.)

> I try mapping a drive to the NT server share, and the drive is mapped
> automatically without any challege.

> My question is why does this automatically happen ? aren't there two
> separate SAM databases, on the local machine and the sam on the PDC??

> However if I can change either password, (ie no longer in sync), only
> then I get a challege.

> Does this happen in WIN2K ????

> THanks

> Jo




 
 
 

NT authentication from a local windows NT 4.0 Wks to a NT Server 4.0

Post by Brandon L. Parri » Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:59:04


Jo,

This is a normal part of Windows NT/2000 security.  When the
workstation is logged into locally, a username and password is
activated and lets you in.  The security on this account is local, so
it could be a user, power user, or admin account, whatever you have
setup for it.  Now, when you go out to map a network share on a remote
system, what happens is that you send a packet that contains your user
id and password to the remote system.  If it is an NT box (workstation
or server), it checks your information versus its user database.  If
your credintials on both systems are identical, it authenticates you
on the remote system with whatever access you have rights to.  It then
checks what you are trying to do (e.g. acess a shared folder in this
case) and verifies that your account on that system has the right to
do so.  If it does, it grants it, if it does not, you are rejected.
Now, if you were on a domain, and tried to map to a share that was on
a standalone server or a remote workstation that you did NOT have an
account on, you would be challenged for a username and password.  You
would either have to create a local account on the standalone server
or be logged into the same domain with it so you could access shares.
The reason that it is different on the PDC or a BDC is because the
Domain user database is the same as the local user database for those
machines.  Hope this helps and that I didnt turn a simple concept into
a complex one...i tend to rant a bit :)

Brandon


> Hi

> Could someone please explain or lead me to where I can get further
> information.

> Scenerio:

> I create a local user on an NT 4.0 Workstation , eg. test000

> I create an account on a NT 4.0 Server (enterprise ed. a PDC) the id
> and password as the workstation user id - the user belongs to the
> domain users group.

> I create a share on the server eg: d:\files with permission granted to
> everyone.

> Now I long into the workstation locally , without authenticating
> outside, (ie using the local sam.)

> I try mapping a drive to the NT server share, and the drive is mapped
> automatically without any challege.

> My question is why does this automatically happen ? aren't there two
> separate SAM databases, on the local machine and the sam on the PDC??

> However if I can change either password, (ie no longer in sync), only
> then I get a challege.

> Does this happen in WIN2K ????

> THanks

> Jo



 
 
 

NT authentication from a local windows NT 4.0 Wks to a NT Server 4.0

Post by JO tehl » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:17:01


Firstly thank you for replying,

The drive is NTFS and Permission set to ' Full Control' to 'Everyone'
therefore any valid domain user should  be able to map to the share.

Just a further question on WIN2K, would the same happen say from a
local NT workstation to WIN2K Advance Server (would it matter if
security was handled via Active Directory as well)

Correct me if I'm wrong, would Win2k use Net Bios authentication if I
want to map a drive.

Thanks in advance.

Jo

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:19:27 +1100, "What Ever"


>NT to NT will pass the username & password of the logged in user to
>authenticate if needed by default without user intervention.

>This should explain why it works when both the username & passwords are the
>same on both boxes.

>If you change the password on one, & the other doesn't match, you will get a
>box asking for the password, hence user intervention is required.

>You say, you have a share, with the everyone permission, by default, you
>also should have an NTFS permission of everyone as well.

>This should let everbody into this share.

>Is the partition a NTFS one, as if so, what are the permissions on it?

>It is the same on win2K as well.

 
 
 

NT authentication from a local windows NT 4.0 Wks to a NT Server 4.0

Post by JO tehl » Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:43:29


Brendan,

Thanks for your reply....

Quote:>The reason that it is different on the PDC or a BDC is because the
>Domain user database is the same as the local user database for those
>machines.

If a user (test000) on a NT workstation (local account - ie logs in
locally) tries to access a share on a server SERV1 (member server not
PDC /BDC) belonging to a domain DOM1 and the user account test000
exists as a domain user on DOM1. The share on SERV1 is set to 'Full
Control' for Everyone. Passwords are the same on the workstation and
domain account on the PDC/BDC.

Would this mean the user will be challeged or rejected ?

Would the mapping be successful or without challege, if the user logs
into the domain DOM1 from the workstation (not using the local Sam)

Quote:>Hope this helps and that I didnt turn a simple concept into
> a complex one...i tend to rant a bit :)

Indeed this was helpful, thanks again.

Jo



>Jo,

>This is a normal part of Windows NT/2000 security.  When the
>workstation is logged into locally, a username and password is
>activated and lets you in.  The security on this account is local, so
>it could be a user, power user, or admin account, whatever you have
>setup for it.  Now, when you go out to map a network share on a remote
>system, what happens is that you send a packet that contains your user
>id and password to the remote system.  If it is an NT box (workstation
>or server), it checks your information versus its user database.  If
>your credintials on both systems are identical, it authenticates you
>on the remote system with whatever access you have rights to.  It then
>checks what you are trying to do (e.g. acess a shared folder in this
>case) and verifies that your account on that system has the right to
>do so.  If it does, it grants it, if it does not, you are rejected.
>Now, if you were on a domain, and tried to map to a share that was on
>a standalone server or a remote workstation that you did NOT have an
>account on, you would be challenged for a username and password.  You
>would either have to create a local account on the standalone server
>or be logged into the same domain with it so you could access shares.
>The reason that it is different on the PDC or a BDC is because the
>Domain user database is the same as the local user database for those
>machines.  Hope this helps and that I didnt turn a simple concept into
>a complex one...i tend to rant a bit :)

>Brandon

>> Hi

>> Could someone please explain or lead me to where I can get further
>> information.

>> Scenerio:

>> I create a local user on an NT 4.0 Workstation , eg. test000

>> I create an account on a NT 4.0 Server (enterprise ed. a PDC) the id
>> and password as the workstation user id - the user belongs to the
>> domain users group.

>> I create a share on the server eg: d:\files with permission granted to
>> everyone.

>> Now I long into the workstation locally , without authenticating
>> outside, (ie using the local sam.)

>> I try mapping a drive to the NT server share, and the drive is mapped
>> automatically without any challege.

>> My question is why does this automatically happen ? aren't there two
>> separate SAM databases, on the local machine and the sam on the PDC??

>> However if I can change either password, (ie no longer in sync), only
>> then I get a challege.

>> Does this happen in WIN2K ????

>> THanks

>> Jo