Very Computer

Quote:

>Maybe I picked the wrong OS, I probably should have learned
>this under Lynux.  Anyway, your help with my problem would
>be greatly appreciated, here is my situation...

>I have a number of machines on a network, but I will only refer to
>two of them for this problem.  One computer is a Win95 machine,
>One is running NT Server.  I have an ISDN terminal adapter on the
>NTServer machine.  

>My ISDN is dedicated, and I have a class C with my ISP.  All machines
>on the network have TCP/IP installed, and designated IP addresses.
>The dialup adapter on the NT machine has it's own IP, which is
>required by my ISP.  This is different from the NT machine's address.

>I am trying to set it up so the NT machine will route IP to and from
>the dialup adapter, to all the other machine and itself on my LAN.  
>But it doesn't seem to want to work.  

>My settings are as follow:

>(I am running NT4.0)

>NT Machine:

>Dialup adapter IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.1
>NTmachine        : XXX.XXX.XXX.5
>The NT machine has IP forwarding turned on.  
>NTmachine subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
>NT Default Gateway: XXX.XXX.XXX.1  (the dialup adapter)

>With this, I can access the internet, ping all that, no problem
>from the NT machine.  

>Win95 machine:

>Default Gateway: XXX.XXX.XXX.5 or XXX.XXX.XXX.1  (tried both)
>IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.4
>mask: 255.255.255.0

>I can ping the NTServer machine from win95 machine, I can ping the
>win95 machine from the NTServer machine.  and I can access the internet
>from the NT Machine.  But I can't access the internet from win95 machine.

Since you are using a subnet of 255.255.255.0 on all adapters (RAS and
NIC), all adapters will appear on the same logical (IP) network:
XXX.XXX.XXX.0.

When TCP needs to send a packet, it determines the destination network (by
masking the IP with the subnet mask). It then checks all adapters to see,
if the network is attached to one of them. If it is, the packet is placed
on that adapter.  If not, the route table is searched for a specific route
to the destination IP or network. If none is found the packet is sent to
the default gateway.

Since your NT machine has 2 adapters (RAS and NIC) that appear on the
same logical network, it will have problems trying to route packets between
them.

The simplest way to place the NT's RAS adapter on a different logical
network from its NIC would be to have your ISP issue a separate IP (either
static or dynamic) for your NT's RAS adapter.

If your ISP is unwilling to do this, you will have to split (subnet) your
class C block. Use a subnet mask of 255.255.255.192 on all machines.
Assign an IP of xxx.xxx.xxx.65 to your NT's RAS adapter. Use IPs from
xxx.xxx.xxx.129 - xxx.xxx.xxx.190 for all NIC adapters, including the NT's.

Either way, assign the default gateway on all LAN machines as the NT's
NIC IP. Leave the NT's default gateway blank. Set the RAS settings to
'Use default gateway on remote server'.

--
John R Buchan            

  Network Address          Netmask  Gateway Address        Interface  Metric
          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       2
    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
    111.111.111.1  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
    111.111.111.4  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
    111.111.111.5  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
  111.111.111.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1

by default.  so which routes would mach up? I would thing 0.0.0.0
would match, simply because 222.222.222.222 && 0.0.0.0 = 0.0.0.0,
and nt should send this out 111.111.111.1, which is the dialup adapter.  

Or maybre I'm just going insane.  I posted some more info down a
thread or two if you want to see it.  

regards,
Jim

Quote:

>>If your use of XXX.XXX.XXX. for the first 3 octets of all your IPs
>>indicates that the first 3 octets are identical in all IPs, then this
>>is your problem.

>>Since you are using a subnet of 255.255.255.0 on all adapters (RAS and
>>NIC), all adapters will appear on the same logical (IP) network:
>>XXX.XXX.XXX.0.

>>When TCP needs to send a packet, it determines the destination network (by
>>masking the IP with the subnet mask). It then checks all adapters to see,
>>if the network is attached to one of them. If it is, the packet is placed
>>on that adapter.  If not, the route table is searched for a specific route
>>to the destination IP or network. If none is found the packet is sent to
>>the default gateway.

>Ok, my logical network is, say, 111.111.111.0 .  both my nic and
>dialup adapters have IP's in this logical network.   111.111.111.1 =
>dialup, 111.111.111.5 = nic.  all machines on the lan have default
>gateways set to the .5 address, and the nt does nnot have a
>default gateway set, but he dialup adapter is set to use the
>default gateway on remote network.  Now, if I try and send a packet
>from the nt machine to 222.222.222.0, and in following your description,
>the nt server would mask this with 255.255.255.0, get back 222.222.222.0,
>check to see if any of the installed adapters take this address, which
>would be no.  Then it goes ot the routing table, and looks for something
>that can take this address.  NT has the routing set as-

>  Network Address          Netmask  Gateway Address        Interface  Metric
>          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       2
>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>    111.111.111.1  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>    111.111.111.4  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>    111.111.111.5  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>  111.111.111.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1

>by default.  so which routes would mach up? I would thing 0.0.0.0
>would match, simply because 222.222.222.222 && 0.0.0.0 = 0.0.0.0,
>and nt should send this out 111.111.111.1, which is the dialup adapter.  

>Or maybre I'm just going insane.  I posted some more info down a
>thread or two if you want to see it.  

>regards,
>Jim

In response to some of your other suggestions, I have the dialup
adapter set to 111.111.111.1, because my ISP has a static IP
set for my connection, which is this address.  I can change this
on their end, but only to some other Ip within my logical network.
i.e. 111.111.111.xxx  xxx being whatever I want.

I would rather not have to change this at all, if I don't have to.

The problem here is, 111.111.111.5 receives IP from the win95
machine for addresses 222.222.222.0, 333.333.333.0, etc, but
does nothing with them.  In looking at the NT routing tables,
and following your scenario, I am unsure of what the NT machine
is doing with these packets. If anything at all.

Regards and thanks in advance,

Jim Mathies

Quote:

>Maybe I picked the wrong OS, I probably should have learned
>this under Lynux.  Anyway, your help with my problem would
>be greatly appreciated, here is my situation...

>I have a number of machines on a network, but I will only refer to
>two of them for this problem.  One computer is a Win95 machine,
>One is running NT Server.  I have an ISDN terminal adapter on the
>NTServer machine.  

>My ISDN is dedicated, and I have a class C with my ISP.  All machines
>on the network have TCP/IP installed, and designated IP addresses.
>The dialup adapter on the NT machine has it's own IP, which is
>required by my ISP.  This is different from the NT machine's address.

>I am trying to set it up so the NT machine will route IP to and from
>the dialup adapter, to all the other machine and itself on my LAN.  
>But it doesn't seem to want to work.  

>My settings are as follow:

>(I am running NT4.0)

>NT Machine:

>Dialup adapter IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.1
>NTmachine        : XXX.XXX.XXX.5
>The NT machine has IP forwarding turned on.  
>NTmachine subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
>NT Default Gateway: XXX.XXX.XXX.1  (the dialup adapter)

>With this, I can access the internet, ping all that, no problem
>from the NT machine.  

>Win95 machine:

>Default Gateway: XXX.XXX.XXX.5 or XXX.XXX.XXX.1  (tried both)
>IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.4
>mask: 255.255.255.0

>I can ping the NTServer machine from win95 machine, I can ping the
>win95 machine from the NTServer machine.  and I can access the internet
>from the NT Machine.  But I can't access the internet from win95 machine.

>HELP!

>any assistance would be greatly appreciated,

>regards,
>Jim Mathies

and add these following routes on the nt machine

route -p xxx.xxx.xxx.4 xxx.xxx.xxx.5

and similiar for any other local lmachines

this tells nt to reach them use the .5 address ... since .1 is your default
gateway all packets are going out that interface...

this should then work fine.. in adddition make sure your isp has the
static route setup so that your whole class C uses your .1 interface..
(ask them they may be assuming you are using rip or something and
don't have static routes)...

--
_________________________________________________________________________
Larry Kahn            __    __    __    __       Senior Software Engineer
                     /  \  /  \  /  \  /  \       Dynamics Research Corp.
____________________/  __\/  __\/  __\/  __\_____________________________
___________________/  /__/  /__/  /__/  /________________________________

                  \_/   \_/   \_/   \_/   \    o \  
                                           \_____/--<


_________________________________________________________________________

Maybe I picked the wrong OS, I probably should have learned
this under Lynux.  Anyway, your help with my problem would
be greatly appreciated, here is my situation...

I have a number of machines on a network, but I will only refer to
two of them for this problem.  One computer is a Win95 machine,
One is running NT Server.  I have an ISDN terminal adapter on the
NTServer machine.  

My ISDN is dedicated, and I have a class C with my ISP.  All machines
on the network have TCP/IP installed, and designated IP addresses.
The dialup adapter on the NT machine has it's own IP, which is
required by my ISP.  This is different from the NT machine's address.

I am trying to set it up so the NT machine will route IP to and from
the dialup adapter, to all the other machine and itself on my LAN.  
But it doesn't seem to want to work.  

My settings are as follow:

(I am running NT4.0)

NT Machine:

Dialup adapter IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.1
NTmachine        : XXX.XXX.XXX.5
The NT machine has IP forwarding turned on.  
NTmachine subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
NT Default Gateway: XXX.XXX.XXX.1  (the dialup adapter)

With this, I can access the internet, ping all that, no problem
from the NT machine.  

Win95 machine:

Default Gateway: XXX.XXX.XXX.5 or XXX.XXX.XXX.1  (tried both)
IP: XXX.XXX.XXX.4
mask: 255.255.255.0

I can ping the NTServer machine from win95 machine, I can ping the
win95 machine from the NTServer machine.  and I can access the internet
from the NT Machine.  But I can't access the internet from win95 machine.

HELP!

any assistance would be greatly appreciated,

regards,
Jim Mathies

Quote:

>Ok, my logical network is, say, 111.111.111.0 .  both my nic and
>dialup adapters have IP's in this logical network.   111.111.111.1 =
>dialup, 111.111.111.5 = nic.  all machines on the lan have default
>gateways set to the .5 address, and the nt does nnot have a
>default gateway set, but he dialup adapter is set to use the
>default gateway on remote network.  Now, if I try and send a packet
>from the nt machine to 222.222.222.0, and in following your description,
>the nt server would mask this with 255.255.255.0, get back 222.222.222.0,
>check to see if any of the installed adapters take this address, which
>would be no.  Then it goes ot the routing table, and looks for something
>that can take this address.  NT has the routing set as-

>  Network Address          Netmask  Gateway Address        Interface  Metric
>          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       2
>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>    111.111.111.1  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>    111.111.111.4  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>    111.111.111.5  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>  111.111.111.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1

>by default.  so which routes would mach up? I would thing 0.0.0.0
>would match, simply because 222.222.222.222 && 0.0.0.0 = 0.0.0.0,
>and nt should send this out 111.111.111.1, which is the dialup adapter.  

>Or maybre I'm just going insane.  I posted some more info down a
>thread or two if you want to see it.  

>regards,
>Jim

The problem here isn't routing packets to the Internet, it's routing them
to your LAN. You will be able to ping 111.111.111.4, 111.111.111.5, and
111.111.111.1 (all adapters on the NT). If you try to ping any other
address on your LAN, say 111.111.111.6, there is no static route for
this specific address, but there are 2 for the network 111.111.111.0.
One has a metric of 1 and one has a metric of 2.  The packet will be sent
by the shortest route (metric 1). Unfortunately, this is your RAS adapter.

If you only have a few machines on your LAN, you can simply follow Larry
Kahn's advise: Add a static route to your table for each IP in use on
the LAN.

I haven't tried it, but you might also be able to write a batch file that
connects to your ISP, then deletes the route:

 111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1

This would leave the only route to your LAN (111.111.111.0) as the one
using your NIC (111.111.111.5). So, you should be able to route packets
to the LAN.

--
John R Buchan            

Quote:>Ok, my logical network is, say, 111.111.111.0 .  both my nic and
>dialup adapters have IP's in this logical network.   111.111.111.1 =
>dialup, 111.111.111.5 = nic.  all machines on the lan have default
>gateways set to the .5 address, and the nt does nnot have a
>default gateway set, but he dialup adapter is set to use the
>default gateway on remote network.  Now, if I try and send a packet
>from the nt machine to 222.222.222.0, and in following your description,
>the nt server would mask this with 255.255.255.0, get back 222.222.222.0,
>check to see if any of the installed adapters take this address, which
>would be no.  Then it goes ot the routing table, and looks for something
>that can take this address.  NT has the routing set as-

>  Network Address          Netmask  Gateway Address        Interface  Metric
>          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       2
>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>    111.111.111.1  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>    111.111.111.4  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>    111.111.111.5  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1       1
>  111.111.111.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1       1
>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1
>  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5       1

>In thinking about what I just said, I set about testing this.  
>with these routes, if I ping 222.222.222.0, the packet is sent
>out the dialup adapter, IP .1 .  If I delete the 0.0.0.0 route,
>then ping 222.222.222.0, the host is unreachable.  So I think that my
>scenario is true, and my routing is working.  BUT, when I try and
>ping 222.222.222.0 from the win95 machine, (default gateway of
>111.111.111.5) the nt machine ignores this.  Why?

>In response to some of your other suggestions, I have the dialup
>adapter set to 111.111.111.1, because my ISP has a static IP
>set for my connection, which is this address.  I can change this
>on their end, but only to some other Ip within my logical network.
>i.e. 111.111.111.xxx  xxx being whatever I want.

>I would rather not have to change this at all, if I don't have to.

>The problem here is, 111.111.111.5 receives IP from the win95
>machine for addresses 222.222.222.0, 333.333.333.0, etc, but
>does nothing with them.  In looking at the NT routing tables,
>and following your scenario, I am unsure of what the NT machine
>is doing with these packets. If anything at all.

Can you ping this machine from the NT?
Did you try the ping 222.222.222.0 before or after you deleted the default
  gateway on the NT machine?
What response did you get to the ping attempt (222.222.222.0 is an invalid
  IP, so you will not get a reply)?
Try pinging 198.105.232.1 (this is MS's machine 'ftp').
If this fails, try 'tracert 198.105.232.1'. What is the output?

--
John R Buchan            

Quote:

>>According to your routing table NT would properly route the ping to the
>>Internet through its default gateway (0.0.0.0), using your RAS adapter
>>as the interface. When it receives the reply from 222.222.222.2, it will
>>attempt to route it.  The reply will be bound for an IP on 111.111.111.0.
>>Since there are 2 static routes for this network, the shortest one (the
>>one with the smallest metric) will be used. Unfortunately this is your
>>RAS adapter. So, the reply will be sent back to your ISP, who will route
>>it back to your router (the NT machine). This loop will continue until
>>the packet's TTL expires (it times out).

>Ok, I can accept this, but the only problem here is that I can
>watch to see if the packet bound for 222.222.222.0 is actually
>leaving via the dialup adapter, as I have the diplay status up.
>I am quite sure it never gets here what so ever.  I can Test your
>idea by deleting the route you siad was causing the loop, but it
>still does no good.  

>I am convinced that NT does NOT do routing!  :)

>I think Ill just go buy a router and try that, because this
>is getting rediculous.

>Still plugging away,
>Jim Mathies

>(Thanks for the help, all)

Ping packets sent to the dialup adapter from beyond my network
don't get routed to the 111.111.111.5 address of NT.  and packets
bound for the dialup adapter sent to 111.111.111.5, don't get
forwarded to the dialup adapter.  (I do have the IP forwarding
checked, honest)

AAAARRGH

Jim

Quote:>In doing some more thinking about this, and with some help from
>Larry Kahn, I have come to realize that NT is not routing at all.

>Ping packets sent to the dialup adapter from beyond my network
>don't get routed to the 111.111.111.5 address of NT.  and packets
>bound for the dialup adapter sent to 111.111.111.5, don't get
>forwarded to the dialup adapter.  (I do have the IP forwarding
>checked, honest)

   www.microsoft.com/kb/bussys/winnt/xxxxxx.htm

Q140859  TCP/IP Routing Basics for Windows NT
Q139983  Class C Subnetting Options for RAS Routing
Q121877  Using RAS for Routing of IP Packets
Q143168  Routing IP Packets to Network Adapter Rather than RAS
Q138878  Routing TCP/IP Packets On a Multihomed RAS Computer
Q128647  Troubleshooting TCP/IP LAN and RAS Routing Issues

--
John R Buchan            

I am convinced that NT does NOT do routing!  :)

I think Ill just go buy a router and try that, because this
is getting rediculous.

Still plugging away,
Jim Mathies

(Thanks for the help, all)

Quote:>>Ok, my logical network is, say, 111.111.111.0 .  both my nic and
>>dialup adapters have IP's in this logical network.   111.111.111.1 =
>>dialup, 111.111.111.5 = nic.  all machines on the lan have default
>>gateways set to the .5 address, and the nt does nnot have a
>>default gateway set, but he dialup adapter is set to use the
>>default gateway on remote network.  Now, if I try and send a packet
>>from the nt machine to 222.222.222.0, and in following your description,
>>the nt server would mask this with 255.255.255.0, get back 222.222.222.0,
>>check to see if any of the installed adapters take this address, which
>>would be no.  Then it goes ot the routing table, and looks for something
>>that can take this address.  NT has the routing set as-

>>  Network Address          Netmask  Gateway Address        Interface  Metric
>>          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1      
1
>>        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1      
1
>>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5      
2
>>    111.111.111.0    255.255.255.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1      
1
>>    111.111.111.1  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1      
1
>>    111.111.111.4  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5      
1
>>    111.111.111.5  255.255.255.255         127.0.0.1         127.0.0.1      
1
>>  111.111.111.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5      
1
>>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.1     111.111.111.1      
1
>>        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5      
1
>>  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     111.111.111.5     111.111.111.5      
1

>>by default.  so which routes would mach up? I would thing 0.0.0.0
>>would match, simply because 222.222.222.222 && 0.0.0.0 = 0.0.0.0,
>>and nt should send this out 111.111.111.1, which is the dialup adapter.  

>>Or maybre I'm just going insane.  I posted some more info down a
>>thread or two if you want to see it.  

>In thinking about what I just said, I set about testing this.  
>with these routes, if I ping 222.222.222.0, the packet is sent
>out the dialup adapter, IP .1 .  If I delete the 0.0.0.0 route,
>then ping 222.222.222.0, the host is unreachable.  So I think that my
>scenario is true, and my routing is working.  BUT, when I try and
>ping 222.222.222.0 from the win95 machine, (default gateway of
>111.111.111.5) the nt machine ignores this.  Why?

>In response to some of your other suggestions, I have the dialup
>adapter set to 111.111.111.1, because my ISP has a static IP
>set for my connection, which is this address.  I can change this
>on their end, but only to some other Ip within my logical network.
>i.e. 111.111.111.xxx  xxx being whatever I want.

>I would rather not have to change this at all, if I don't have to.

>The problem here is, 111.111.111.5 receives IP from the win95
>machine for addresses 222.222.222.0, 333.333.333.0, etc, but
>does nothing with them.  In looking at the NT routing tables,
>and following your scenario, I am unsure of what the NT machine
>is doing with these packets. If anything at all.

--
John R Buchan            

--
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Larry Kahn            __    __    __    __       Senior Software Engineer
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