Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by Todd J Hero » Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:00:00



This doesn't sound like a physical network problem.  Have you enabled
File and Printer Sharing for your network?

--
Todd J Heron
US Army, Ft Campbell, Ky
Until July '99

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by I Do Not Exis » Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:00:00


I just brought a 10M/S 8 port hub to network two Windows 98 computers. I
have a cable modem which I attached to a crossover port on the hub. It works
great.

Unforunately either of the computers can see each other on the network. I
have a cable coming out of computer 1 into port 1. I have a cable coming out
of computer 2 into port 2.

The network cards are both NE2000 compatibles, ISA.  They are jumperless and
come with bundled software to configure them. This writes info to an EEPROM
on the card. Both cards are successfully detected by the OS and are not
conflicting with any other software.

The bundled software comes with a self diagnostic tool for the network
cards. All self-tests pass with flying colors (making me believe there is
nothing wrong with the network cards). When I run a packet test between the
two modems I get nothing. When I check the hub and the NICs the lights are
flashing telling me they are receiving a signal during the test, but nothing
gets reported by the programs.

In Win 98 I have
Client for Microsoft Networks (for network)
Dial-Up Adapter (for modem)
NE2000 Compatible (network card adapter)
NetBEUI --> NE2000 Compatible (for network, default protocol)
TCP/IP --> Dial-Up Adapter (for modem)
TCP/IP --> NE2000 Compatible (for cable modem)
File and printer sharing for MS Networks (for network)

These settings are repeated on both computers.
Computer names are different, workgroup names are the same.

Any help greatly appreicated.
Thank you.


Colin Heacock
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by I Do Not Exis » Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:00:00



>This doesn't sound like a physical network problem.  Have you enabled
>File and Printer Sharing for your network?

>--
>Todd J Heron
>US Army, Ft Campbell, Ky
>Until July '99

I have File and Printer sharing installed on both computers. On the first
computer browse master is enabled and on the second computer I have it
disabled. Both computers are sharing resources (the first one a directory or
two and the second one a whole hard drive).

I do have two protocols sharing the same network card on the first computer.
Could this be causing problems? I need TCP/IP binded to the network card for
my cable modem, and I need NetBEUI binded to my network card for the UTP
network.

Any suggestions?
Thank you for you help.
Much appreicated.

Colin Heacock


 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by Chris Shan » Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:00:00


Hi Colin,

This problem is usually to do with IRQ's and Plug and Play.
Two things to check and play with:
1. Go back into your dos diag/config program that came with your NIC. Make
sure that the cards are set to NE2000 compatible mode not PnP, and check the
IRQ's and I/O's/ Go back into Win98 and check to see these settings match
what is being reported in Device Manager. If not change these setting
manually to match the DOS version.
2. Another thing to play with is in the BIOS. In the PCI/PNP section of your
BIOS, try various configurations of resources automatically assigned and
manually assigned, and PnP OS installed 'Yes No'.
Finding the right combination of these two things should solve the problem.
Hope this helps
Chris


>I just brought a 10M/S 8 port hub to network two Windows 98 computers. I
>have a cable modem which I attached to a crossover port on the hub. It
works
>great.

>Unforunately either of the computers can see each other on the network. I
>have a cable coming out of computer 1 into port 1. I have a cable coming
out
>of computer 2 into port 2.

>The network cards are both NE2000 compatibles, ISA.  They are jumperless
and
>come with bundled software to configure them. This writes info to an EEPROM
>on the card. Both cards are successfully detected by the OS and are not
>conflicting with any other software.

>The bundled software comes with a self diagnostic tool for the network
>cards. All self-tests pass with flying colors (making me believe there is
>nothing wrong with the network cards). When I run a packet test between the
>two modems I get nothing. When I check the hub and the NICs the lights are
>flashing telling me they are receiving a signal during the test, but
nothing
>gets reported by the programs.

>In Win 98 I have
>Client for Microsoft Networks (for network)
>Dial-Up Adapter (for modem)
>NE2000 Compatible (network card adapter)
>NetBEUI --> NE2000 Compatible (for network, default protocol)
>TCP/IP --> Dial-Up Adapter (for modem)
>TCP/IP --> NE2000 Compatible (for cable modem)
>File and printer sharing for MS Networks (for network)

>These settings are repeated on both computers.
>Computer names are different, workgroup names are the same.

>Any help greatly appreicated.
>Thank you.


>Colin Heacock
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by David N Waldman » Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:00:00




> >This doesn't sound like a physical network problem.  Have you enabled
> >File and Printer Sharing for your network?

> >--
> >Todd J Heron
> >US Army, Ft Campbell, Ky
> >Until July '99

> I have File and Printer sharing installed on both computers. On the first
> computer browse master is enabled and on the second computer I have it
> disabled. Both computers are sharing resources (the first one a directory or
> two and the second one a whole hard drive).

> I do have two protocols sharing the same network card on the first computer.
> Could this be causing problems? I need TCP/IP binded to the network card for
> my cable modem, and I need NetBEUI binded to my network card for the UTP
> network.

> Any suggestions?
> Thank you for you help.
> Much appreicated.

> Colin Heacock



Colin;

You don't "NEED" NetBEUI for the UTP network. Just use TCP/IP. It works fine (as
in GREAT!).

dnw
--
David N. Waldmann
Vice President
Vermont Hardwoods
=============================================

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by Sacha Panasui » Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:00:00


When you say:
Quote:> It works great

to what are refering?  Can both computers access the Internet?

Removing NetBEUI, as another post suggested, is a good idea as there aren't
really any troubleshooting tools for it.  If both of the computers can
access the Internet (e.g. ping www.ibm.com works, or web browsing) then IP
is working correctly.

The problem you are likely left with is if you are using IP numbers from
your Cable Modem ISP then everything you want to transmit is going to the
cable modem.  It is likely that your cable modem ISP won't be too pleased
with your taking two IPs from its limited pool (I'm guessing this is Shaw as
I'm in Calgary using Shaw).  Also, this creates a serious security risk as
your Windows machines are accessible from the Internet.

Basically there are two options that will work well for you and provide
better security.
    1) Install a second network card in one of your Win9X machines, connect
it to your cable modem and install a proxy software package (e.g. winproxy
or wingate)
    2) If you have another machine to use (big IF) you could put two network
cards in it, install Linux on it and enable IP Masquarading

Both of these options are better solutions.  Feel free to email me if you
want more specifics.

___________________________
Sacha Panasuik
MCSE
CSP Data Systems Ltd.


Quote:>I just brought a 10M/S 8 port hub to network two Windows 98 computers. I
>have a cable modem which I attached to a crossover port on the hub. It
works
>great.

>Unforunately either of the computers can see each other on the network. I
>have a cable coming out of computer 1 into port 1. I have a cable coming
out
>of computer 2 into port 2.

>The network cards are both NE2000 compatibles, ISA.  They are jumperless
and
>come with bundled software to configure them. This writes info to an EEPROM
>on the card. Both cards are successfully detected by the OS and are not
>conflicting with any other software.

>The bundled software comes with a self diagnostic tool for the network
>cards. All self-tests pass with flying colors (making me believe there is
>nothing wrong with the network cards). When I run a packet test between the
>two modems I get nothing. When I check the hub and the NICs the lights are
>flashing telling me they are receiving a signal during the test, but
nothing
>gets reported by the programs.

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by Ed » Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:00:00


Did you SHARE the devices, ie: right click the c: drive go to sharing, and
set the device as a shared device (printers too)??

check it out
e


>I just brought a 10M/S 8 port hub to network two Windows 98 computers. I
>have a cable modem which I attached to a crossover port on the hub. It
works
>great.

>Unforunately either of the computers can see each other on the network. I
>have a cable coming out of computer 1 into port 1. I have a cable coming
out
>of computer 2 into port 2.

>The network cards are both NE2000 compatibles, ISA.  They are jumperless
and
>come with bundled software to configure them. This writes info to an EEPROM
>on the card. Both cards are successfully detected by the OS and are not
>conflicting with any other software.

>The bundled software comes with a self diagnostic tool for the network
>cards. All self-tests pass with flying colors (making me believe there is
>nothing wrong with the network cards). When I run a packet test between the
>two modems I get nothing. When I check the hub and the NICs the lights are
>flashing telling me they are receiving a signal during the test, but
nothing
>gets reported by the programs.

>In Win 98 I have
>Client for Microsoft Networks (for network)
>Dial-Up Adapter (for modem)
>NE2000 Compatible (network card adapter)
>NetBEUI --> NE2000 Compatible (for network, default protocol)
>TCP/IP --> Dial-Up Adapter (for modem)
>TCP/IP --> NE2000 Compatible (for cable modem)
>File and printer sharing for MS Networks (for network)

>These settings are repeated on both computers.
>Computer names are different, workgroup names are the same.

>Any help greatly appreicated.
>Thank you.


>Colin Heacock
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by I Do Not Exis » Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:00:00



Quote:> When you say:
> > It works great
> to what are refering?  Can both computers access the Internet?

Both computers can access the Internet. The first through the cable modem
and the second through a regular modem. I think the problem with the network
is either a bad network card at the second computer or a bad network cable.
I'm hoping to get hold of another network card in a couple of days to figure
out if it is the former.

Quote:> Removing NetBEUI, as another post suggested, is a good idea as there
aren't
> really any troubleshooting tools for it.  If both of the computers can
> access the Internet (e.g. ping www.ibm.com works, or web browsing) then IP
> is working correctly.

I defintely appreicate the advice you have offered, but truly don't
understand all of it. NetBEUI is the simplest protocol to use. It requires
no configuration with settings (unlike TCP/IP or IPX/SPX) and only needs to
be installed on both computers. I believe a good way to troubleshoot a
network is to install a very simple protocol. Where you could have missed a
setting with a different protocol, there is nothing to miss with NetBEUI.

Because NetBEUI hasn't worked I am trying different protocols now. I have so
far used NetBEUI and IPX/SPX and will be trying TCP/IP (which I dread trying
since it involves assigning IP addresses). Again thanks for the advice, even
if I don't totally agree with the reasons provided.

Quote:> The problem you are likely left with is if you are using IP numbers from
> your Cable Modem ISP then everything you want to transmit is going to the
> cable modem.  It is likely that your cable modem ISP won't be too pleased
> with your taking two IPs from its limited pool (I'm guessing this is Shaw
as
> I'm in Calgary using Shaw).  Also, this creates a serious security risk as
> your Windows machines are accessible from the Internet.

Any computer connected to a Shaw Cable modem is already at risk. Anyone with
a dedicated connection to the Internet is at risk. I'm not sure what you
mean when you say I will be a security risk, as this is what passwords and
user access is for.

I also don't know what you mean by I will be taking two IPs from Shaw's
limited pool. Since I have limited knowledge in this area I obviously could
be overlooking something, but as far as I know any addresses assigned would
be specific to my network. People could access them through the Internet,
but nothing would be taken from Shaw.

Quote:> Basically there are two options that will work well for you and provide
> better security.
>     1) Install a second network card in one of your Win9X machines,
connect
> it to your cable modem and install a proxy software package (e.g. winproxy
> or wingate)
>     2) If you have another machine to use (big IF) you could put two
network
> cards in it, install Linux on it and enable IP Masquarading

Again I am not trying to dump on your advice, as I appreicate any advice
offered, but I simply cannot agree with it.

My brother has proved to me (in my opinion) these are not the best
solutions. He has TCP/IP installed for his cable modem and uses NetBEUI for
his network (no IP addresses assigned to anything, except for the one Shaw
assigned him). Passwords and user access do not mark his network as a big
security risk. He also has installed a proxy server which gives him access
to the cable modem over the network (and even more security). He does not
use two network cards at his "cable modem computer". It seems totally
unnecessary in my opinion.

Anyway I will be trying out TCP/IP again and do thank you for all the advice
you have provided (even if I tend to be in disagreement with a lot of it).

Colin Heacock
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by I Do Not Exis » Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:00:00


Quote:>This problem is usually to do with IRQ's and Plug and Play.
>Two things to check and play with:
>1. Go back into your dos diag/config program that came with your NIC. Make
>sure that the cards are set to NE2000 compatible mode not PnP,

The configuration program doesn't offer this option. I don't believe it is a
Plug n' Play NIC, it is just a jumperless card that gets configured through
manufacturer provided software.

and check the

Quote:>IRQ's and I/O's/ Go back into Win98 and check to see these settings match
>what is being reported in Device Manager. If not change these setting
>manually to match the DOS version.

I checked. All settings in Device Manager match with what is stored on the
card's EEPROM.

Quote:>2. Another thing to play with is in the BIOS. In the PCI/PNP section of
your
>BIOS, try various configurations of resources automatically assigned and
>manually assigned, and PnP OS installed 'Yes No'.
>Finding the right combination of these two things should solve the problem.

I haven't tried this yet. I'll keep you updated on the results. Thanks so
much for the advice.  Everyone has been so willing to help, it is much
appreicated.

Colin Heacock

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by I Do Not Exis » Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:00:00


After all this trouble I finally solved the problem. Thanks to everyone for
their help.

I went in and started moving the card to different I/Os and IRQs, even
though there was no reported conflicts.

When I moved the card on the second computer to IRQ 12, I/O 300 everything
suddenly worked.

Does anyone know why?

Again thanks for everyones help.
Much appreicated.

Colin Heacock

 
 
 

Win 98 to Win 98 Network - doesn't work

Post by Sacha Panasui » Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:00:00





>> When you say:
>> > It works great
>> to what are refering?  Can both computers access the Internet?

>Both computers can access the Internet. The first through the cable modem
>and the second through a regular modem. I think the problem with the network
>is either a bad network card at the second computer or a bad network cable.
>I'm hoping to get hold of another network card in a couple of days to figure
>out if it is the former.

OOOHHHH!  The way I read your original post, it seemed to me that you had both computers connected to a hub and were obtaining an IP address for each computer from your cable modem.

Quote:>I defintely appreicate the advice you have offered, but truly don't
>understand all of it. NetBEUI is the simplest protocol to use. It requires
>no configuration with settings (unlike TCP/IP or IPX/SPX) and only needs to
>be installed on both computers. I believe a good way to troubleshoot a
>network is to install a very simple protocol. Where you could have missed a
>setting with a different protocol, there is nothing to miss with NetBEUI.

NetBEUI is one of the simplest protocols available and yes there is nothing to configure for it.  The trouble comes in when you try to troubleshoot a connectivity problem as it works or it doesn't.  NetBEUI also relies on broadcasts and browsers which can be troublesome on a network of more than a couple of computers (not an issue for your two).

If I now understand what you are after, (big IF) then TCP/IP would not be the protocol of choice.  The only time you would need to configure TCP/IP is when you want the computer not connected to the Wave to access it (which is where my advice comes in).

Quote:>Any computer connected to a Shaw Cable modem is already at risk. Anyone with
>a dedicated connection to the Internet is at risk. I'm not sure what you
>mean when you say I will be a security risk, as this is what passwords and
>user access is for.

Passwords and user access on Windows 9x are both fairly laughable.  My point was: if one computer is physically connected to the Internet and opposed to many there is less of a risk.  Again, this comes from my not understanding your setup correctly.

Quote:>I also don't know what you mean by I will be taking two IPs from Shaw's
>limited pool. Since I have limited knowledge in this area I obviously could
>be overlooking something, but as far as I know any addresses assigned would
>be specific to my network. People could access them through the Internet,
>but nothing would be taken from Shaw.

If both of your computers were configured to obtain an IP address automatically (i.e. via a DHCP server), these would come from Shaw's pool of IP numbers (i.e. a limited number).

Quote:>Again I am not trying to dump on your advice, as I appreicate any advice
>offered, but I simply cannot agree with it.

No problem.  Obviously I gave you advice that didn't apply because I didn't understand what you had configured or what you actually wanted to accomplish.  Glad to hear you got things working the way you wanted.

Quote:>My brother has proved to me (in my opinion) these are not the best
>solutions. He has TCP/IP installed for his cable modem and uses NetBEUI for
>his network (no IP addresses assigned to anything, except for the one Shaw
>assigned him). Passwords and user access do not mark his network as a big
>security risk. He also has installed a proxy server which gives him access
>to the cable modem over the network (and even more security). He does not
>use two network cards at his "cable modem computer". It seems totally
>unnecessary in my opinion.

By using one network card in a computer used as a proxy server for the Internet you are limiting your available bandwidth.  The card has a maximum of 10 megabit throughput in theory (in reality its lower), if you are spliting this between accessing information off the 'Net and delivering it to another computer, your througput will drop considerably.  As far as security, don't tell anyone what your brother's IP is! :)

Have fun!
--
___________________________
Sacha Panasuik
MCSE
CSP Data Systems Ltd.