fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by Thomas Künnet » Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:00:00



Hi,

question: have users of the german 5mx pro noticed the problem of the fading
keyboard as well?

Thanx in advance
Tommi

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by tb » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Previously I reported looking at the keyboard under high
magnification binocular.

The drops of white material seemed to be plastic, same
kind as the black.

I guess I have to take back this statement.

I have done some more testing, and when proded with a fine
needle, small pieces of these dots can come off, and
sometimes some liquid is oozing out.
It looks as if those dots that have a more splattered appearance
are more prone to loose bits and pieces of material,
if scratched hard.  What is left, is the bottommost layer,
which looks rather yellowish, because the black from underneath
shines through.
I guess this may explain the fading keys, whichstop after
a while.
The black material behaves actually rather similar, bits
and pieces can be scratched off as well, and somtimes
it gives the appearance of oozing a bit liquid.

I am not materials expert, so I have no clue if this
behaviour is normal, if this is plastic or some other stuff.

but it does look that under some circumstances, the
white drops can be damaged and may look more faded,
though one would suspect that a finger normally cannot
scratch the dots like I did with the needle (which required
not much force, but was sharp).

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by David Hawthorn » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00


So I wonder how this ties in with Psion's claim (unofficially by a Psion
employee in this NG, I seem to remember) that the keys are laser-etched?
Bobbles of paint don't sound very laser to me.


Quote:> Previously I reported looking at the keyboard under high
> magnification binocular.

> The drops of white material seemed to be plastic, same
> kind as the black.

> I guess I have to take back this statement.

> I have done some more testing, and when proded with a fine
> needle, small pieces of these dots can come off, and
> sometimes some liquid is oozing out.
> It looks as if those dots that have a more splattered appearance
> are more prone to loose bits and pieces of material,
> if scratched hard.  What is left, is the bottommost layer,
> which looks rather yellowish, because the black from underneath
> shines through.
> I guess this may explain the fading keys, whichstop after
> a while.
> The black material behaves actually rather similar, bits
> and pieces can be scratched off as well, and somtimes
> it gives the appearance of oozing a bit liquid.

> I am not materials expert, so I have no clue if this
> behaviour is normal, if this is plastic or some other stuff.

> but it does look that under some circumstances, the
> white drops can be damaged and may look more faded,
> though one would suspect that a finger normally cannot
> scratch the dots like I did with the needle (which required
> not much force, but was sharp).

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by SiB » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00



> So I wonder how this ties in with Psion's claim (unofficially by a Psion
> employee in this NG, I seem to remember) that the keys are laser-etched?
> Bobbles of paint don't sound very laser to me.

Maybe it's a plastic that expands when heated and holds the shape when
cooled? If that were the case then a fine IR laser fired on a blank key
in a pattern that resembled a letter of the alphabet would end up
causing the plastic on the surface of the key to rise in the shape of
that letter!
 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by tb » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00




> > So I wonder how this ties in with Psion's claim (unofficially by a Psion
> > employee in this NG, I seem to remember) that the keys are laser-etched?
> > Bobbles of paint don't sound very laser to me.

> Maybe it's a plastic that expands when heated and holds the shape when
> cooled? If that were the case then a fine IR laser fired on a blank key
> in a pattern that resembled a letter of the alphabet would end up
> causing the plastic on the surface of the key to rise in the shape of
> that letter!

Well, that's sort of the impression I had at first, that it's
hot plastic, shot like an ink jet at the keyboard, and then cooled.
I don't know how laser edged would come in here, though.
Unless the laser, while heating up the material, converts
the black to white.?? perhaps the plastic is sprayed on,
and then heated with the laser to mold it with the keys underneath?
 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by SiB » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00



> Well, that's sort of the impression I had at first, that it's
> hot plastic, shot like an ink jet at the keyboard, and then cooled.
> I don't know how laser edged would come in here, though.
> Unless the laser, while heating up the material, converts
> the black to white.?? perhaps the plastic is sprayed on,
> and then heated with the laser to mold it with the keys underneath?

No, what I mean is, the laser is fired at the surface of a plain dark
grey/black key and this causes the surface to expand (Almost like it
bubbles, but very controled), so there's nothing really put on to the
key. The expanded area, making up the letter, may then get slightly
compressed again as fingers repeatedly rub on it. This could explain
the darkening of the lettering?
 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by David Hawthorn » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00


But what I simply can't understand is why Psion had to use this apparently
(evidently) untested technology when their 3a keys were *excellent* - no
change *whatsoever* in four years' heavy use. What sort of company is this?
"This works - let's change it." Numbskulls.

> No, what I mean is, the laser is fired at the surface of a plain dark
> grey/black key and this causes the surface to expand (Almost like it
> bubbles, but very controled), so there's nothing really put on to the
> key. The expanded area, making up the letter, may then get slightly
> compressed again as fingers repeatedly rub on it. This could explain
> the darkening of the lettering?

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by Jon » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00


I'm glad that your 3a keys were fine: I owned 3 3as over the years and the
keys were prone to fading on all of them, mainly Shift and Return. It was a
lovely machine though!

Jon

> But what I simply can't understand is why Psion had to use this apparently
> (evidently) untested technology when their 3a keys were *excellent* - no
> change *whatsoever* in four years' heavy use. What sort of company is
this?
> "This works - let's change it." Numbskulls.




Quote:> > No, what I mean is, the laser is fired at the surface of a plain dark
> > grey/black key and this causes the surface to expand (Almost like it
> > bubbles, but very controled), so there's nothing really put on to the
> > key. The expanded area, making up the letter, may then get slightly
> > compressed again as fingers repeatedly rub on it. This could explain
> > the darkening of the lettering?

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by tb » Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:00:00




> > Well, that's sort of the impression I had at first, that it's
> > hot plastic, shot like an ink jet at the keyboard, and then cooled.
> > I don't know how laser edged would come in here, though.
> > Unless the laser, while heating up the material, converts
> > the black to white.?? perhaps the plastic is sprayed on,
> > and then heated with the laser to mold it with the keys underneath?

> No, what I mean is, the laser is fired at the surface of a plain dark
> grey/black key and this causes the surface to expand (Almost like it
> bubbles, but very controled), so there's nothing really put on to the
> key. The expanded area, making up the letter, may then get slightly
> compressed again as fingers repeatedly rub on it. This could explain
> the darkening of the lettering?

No, this is not at all the way it looks. These white
dots really look like spotted onto the surface.
and anyway, how would the laser convert the black plastic to
white?
 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by Robert M. Muenc » Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:00:00


On Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:58:06 +0200, "Thomas Knneth"


>question: have users of the german 5mx pro noticed the problem of the fading
>keyboard as well?

Hi, yes and I have contacted the German Psion support weeks ago: no
answer yet. This reminds me to ask again.

Robert M. Muench, Karlsruhe, Germany
       ==> ask for PGP public-key <==

    When do you want to reboot today?

Use the free portable GUI Library
OpenAmulet: http://www.openip.org

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by Thomas Künnet » Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Hi,

Quote:> Hi, yes and I have contacted the German Psion support weeks ago: no
> answer yet. This reminds me to ask again.

Fortunately mine does not show this effect (up to now); sad thing anyway,
thinking of the price of that machine...

Regards
Tommi

 
 
 

fading keyboard painting on 5mx pro as well?

Post by Keit » Tue, 30 Nov 1999 04:00:00


Maybe they are a "this is cheaper, quiker process, let's try it, company"


> But what I simply can't understand is why Psion had to use this apparently
> (evidently) untested technology when their 3a keys were *excellent* - no
> change *whatsoever* in four years' heavy use. What sort of company is this?
> "This works - let's change it." Numbskulls.

>>snip

 
 
 

1. 5mx Keyboard: Faded out of the box!

I am aware that the 5/5mx keyboards fade with use. This is especially
worrysome since my brand new 5mx had faded keys out of the box. Most
keys are bold but many on the left side of hte machine look like the
output of a laser printer with low toner!

Here's what I know from researching the net. There are apparently two
kinds of keyboards for the 5mx: one with tan symbols printed on charcoal
keys (the one I have), and another that has white symbols on black keys
(like the box).

Here's my question:

Should I send back the macine I have now and hope to get another with a
tan-on-choacoal keyboard that doesn't have fading...

-or-

... should I send this machine back and look for one that has the
whate-on-black keyboard?

I would prefer to do the former and was hoping someone could say that
there is a good chance of the exchanged machine's keyboard being bold.
I guess it boils down to the following: How many other people have had
fading problems out of the box?

Please reply to this newsgroup and my e-mail account:

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