Oracle Forms vs. Delphi

Oracle Forms vs. Delphi

Post by Duc Nguy » Thu, 20 Jul 1995 04:00:00



Hi all,
We'll be choosing either Oracle Forms4.5 or Borland's Delphi as our
development tool next week. I've used Powerbuilder, SQLWindows,
Visual Basic, and Delphi & and think Delphi is the best of the bunch.
However, my boss wants me to look at Forms4.5 because Oracle is
our DBMS.  If you've used both Forms4.5 and Delphi, what would you
choose ? I haven't used Forms4.5, BTW. What are the strengths and
weaknesses of Forms4.5 ? Anyone used Delphi against Oracle ? Any
comments ? Thanks.
-Duc Nguyen

 
 
 

Oracle Forms vs. Delphi

Post by Sylvain Taccuc » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00




Quote:

>Hi all,
>We'll be choosing either Oracle Forms4.5 or Borland's Delphi as our
>development tool next week. I've used Powerbuilder, SQLWindows,
>Visual Basic, and Delphi & and think Delphi is the best of the bunch.
>However, my boss wants me to look at Forms4.5 because Oracle is
>our DBMS.  If you've used both Forms4.5 and Delphi, what would you
>choose ? I haven't used Forms4.5, BTW. What are the strengths and
>weaknesses of Forms4.5 ? Anyone used Delphi against Oracle ? Any
>comments ? Thanks.

First of all, Delphi is an all purpose programming environment where FORMS 4.5
 is data centric.  Delphi is a compiler where FORMS is an interpreter.  Forms
4.5 has a much shorter learning curve than Delphi has.  I think that for
simple stuff, sutff that FORMS does well (Transaction control, query,
navigatioin from one record to the other, master detail etc...) it's going to
be easier and faster to develop stuff; although you can acheive the same thing
with Delphi's class, you'll need a serious and real good Delphi program that
should be in charge of developing component and class for the rest of the
team.  Delphi will allow you to build fancy stuff and you'll have more control
over performance issue.  But where Delphi use Borland SQL link drivers (they
work well with Oracle 7.1.3 under open vms) Oracle use internal call to
SQL*Net.  Forms 4.5 is looks like a real Windows product though.  You can use
VBX, DDE, OLE and you can call function inside DLL, so you can still use
Delphi to build the more fancy or technical part of you application.  If you
intend to distribute you're system on machine with less than 8 MB of RAM you
shoudn't even considering FORMS has an alternative.  Also the way FORMS
consume USER and GDI ressource is not under your control.  Delphi seems to
have no GPF where FORMS 4.5 still has some.  But to go with Delphi you should
have a really good team of dedicated programmers who wants to learn and dig
inside the product, where with FORMS you don't kneed has much an experience
teams.  Hope it helps!

 
 
 

Oracle Forms vs. Delphi

Post by Michael Ho » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Duc,

   I saw your request (below).  Admittedly, I have a biased opinion, but
I think Delphi does not hold a candle to Forms when it comes to client/server
applications.  Granted, Delphi is a nice tool for * up quick windows
applications, but it falls short when it comes to serious client/server
computing.  For example, Delphi champions will claim that fully compiled
executables are the ONLY way to go.  True, some CLIENT-SIDE operations can
be performed faster, but that is not the point.  The real issue should be
optimized CLIENT/SERVER performance, not just client performance.  By this,
I mean taking into account not just the client side app, but also the network
and database.  Any experienced developer will tell you that rarely is the
client the bottleneck in performance, but rather, the network or database.
As such, it is of paramount importance that the application development
tool you choose be well-integrated with these components.  Specifics
of this type of integration in Forms 4.5 are things like reduced network
traffic for each database reference, stored procedures, automatically
enforced referential integrity, default (from the ORACLE7 data dictionary)
functionality, etc. Furthermore, Forms4.5 (as you might imagine) has very
tight, lean integration with the ORACLE7 database.  Delphi, while they
do provide "native" drivers, will always suffer from a less elegant
interface (slower, more coding, etc).  

These points just scratch the surface.  Forms 4.5 is now part of a new
Oracle product called Developer/2000, which also includes:

Reports 2.5
Graphics 2.5
Procedure Builder 1.5
Browser 2.0
and a few other goodies.

The product is sold as a bundle with free, unlimited runtime.

In addition to Developer/2000, Oracle also has:

Designer/2000 - Modelling (CASE) tool - diagrammers, repository, generators
                for Forms 4.5, Reports 2.5 (that's right! no coding!)

Discoverer/2000 - DSS/Datawarehousing tools geared for the end user.

I could go on all day about this.  In the interest of being brief, I will
just point out a few more things to consider about Delphi:

- No portability (Windows only)
- No modelling (CASE) support for complex projects
- No repository support for team development
- Weak, unintegrated reporting functionality
- No application partitioning

I hope this helps you make the right choice.  Please feel to email me if
you have further questions.

Michael


>Hi all,
>We'll be choosing either Oracle Forms4.5 or Borland's Delphi as our
>development tool next week. I've used Powerbuilder, SQLWindows,
>Visual Basic, and Delphi & and think Delphi is the best of the bunch.
>However, my boss wants me to look at Forms4.5 because Oracle is
>our DBMS.  If you've used both Forms4.5 and Delphi, what would you
>choose ? I haven't used Forms4.5, BTW. What are the strengths and
>weaknesses of Forms4.5 ? Anyone used Delphi against Oracle ? Any
>comments ? Thanks.
>-Duc Nguyen


 
 
 

Oracle Forms vs. Delphi

Post by enma.. » Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Regarding Forms 4.5 and Delphi.  The answer is use BOTH!  You heard it right!  Both.  Although Forms 4.5 does some really nice
things.  The Developer 200 bundle is Poor! in many respects.  Oracle Reports is just awfull.  Oracle could get a good lesson in
developing a reportwriter by looking at ReportSmith.  ReportSmith far eaiser to use and Far superior in every respect.  Oracle
Browser is the PITs.  If you want a browser whip one out in Delphi or buy GQL from Andyne Ltd. Ontario Canada.  Where delphi
comes in is in letting you write routines that you can store in DLL's which can be called from forms.  This is far easier solution than
using Oracle's Pro*C for windows with is just the pits!  This works well with complex financial formulas that Forms does a poor job
with.  As far as Oracle is concerned.  Oracle has integrated its tools and its database so tightly with its PL/SQl engine that ANY tool
that does not support PL/SQL is going to be*Slooooow!  Do not however discount Delphi for many things. The Delphi C/S
package is far better at many things than Oracle will ever be.  Try putting Forms 4.5 on a salesman's laptop and the fun begins.  This
is where Delphi is far superior!  One last thing.  Forms 4.5 is riddled with GPF right now.  It will be at least a year before it is really
stable which is typical with Oracle.  Also, Forms 4.5 uses a ton of resources.  Try running the Designer and runtime at the same time
and open up three or four windows at runtime.    OK!  now watch your PC go Boom!  Delphi does not have the same problem.
 
 
 

Oracle Forms vs. Delphi

Post by Michael Taylo » Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:00:00



>Hi all,
>We'll be choosing either Oracle Forms4.5 or Borland's Delphi as our
>development tool next week. I've used Powerbuilder, SQLWindows,
>Visual Basic, and Delphi & and think Delphi is the best of the bunch.
>However, my boss wants me to look at Forms4.5 because Oracle is
>our DBMS.  If you've used both Forms4.5 and Delphi, what would you
>choose ? I haven't used Forms4.5, BTW. What are the strengths and
>weaknesses of Forms4.5 ? Anyone used Delphi against Oracle ? Any
>comments ? Thanks.
>-Duc Nguyen


Hi,
I use Forms 4.5 professionally and Delphi individually!  Of the
two programming environments, Delphi is extremely superior.
Forms has had an extraordinary problem in our environment (NLM
Oracle 7.0.16 w/ Windows 3.1) with reliability and I don't have
to bore you with our experiences with Oracle support.

The drawback to Delphi is that it is cross-database and is not as
tightly integrated with the back-end database.  Forms 4.5 can
'optimize' for Oracle.  Delphi executes many times faster since
its actually compiled (what a concept!) whereas Forms is
interpreted.  If you can optimize your C/S access enough, Delphi
is a better choice IMO.  Try using stored procedures for your
data-intensive work.

For what its worth, my site is pretty much stuck with
Oracle*Forms due to our software in production and our investment
in training.  Its NOT my tool of choice.


 
 
 

1. Delphi 2.0 vs. JAM vs. Powerbuilder 5.0

Powerbuilder 5 and Delphi 2 are new, so there aren't many head-to-head articles
about all three yet, but for JAM and Powerbuilder, look at Unix Review (May and June).
MacWorld (Oct-95, Aug. 96).  For JAM only, try DBMS Mag. (Nov-95), PC Week (Sept 4-95),
and Infoworld (Sept 25, 95, June-17, 96).  The JYACC web-site has more (www.jyacc.com).

Also, there are analyst reports from the Gartner, Standish, Giga, etc, but these
get expensive.  The vendors should have copies they can give you if you contact them.

Below is some info I have about all three, but I've only built apps with JAM, and
not with Powerbuilder or Delphi (plus I work for JYACC, so there is a bias here ;-)

JAM runs on Unix (SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, DG-UX, etc) in both character-mode
and Motif, on Win-31, Win-32s, Windows-95, Mac (6800 and PPC), OS/2, VMS,etc  It has
native drivers for Oracle, Sybase, Informix, ODBC, and close to 20 other databases.
JAM 7 has been shipping since last fall?, and JAM has been sold for over 10 years.

JAM has a Web Interface, and can be deployed across multiple-tiers (it was one
of the first tools to interface to Tuxedo), and you can build the other tiers in JAM,
if you want, or in C with native Tuxedo calls, or C with JAM C/Tuxedo calls.

Delphi 2.0 natively compiles on Windows.  It only runs on Windows (95?).  It is Pascal
based, and is pretty popular on the Windows platform.  I am not sure if they've done
a Windows-95 port yet, but it should be coming soon if it isn't here yet.  I am not
sure which database drivers are available, but they should have drivers for ODBC and
probably Oracle and Sybase, perhaps more.  It is the youngest of the three tools.

Powerbuilder natively compiles on Windows.  It runs on Windows (3.1? 95?) and Solaris.
I think it has native drivers for most databases if you are a Windows user, but on
the Unix side I think they only have a Sybase driver out.   Powerbuilder is very
popular on the Windows platform, and there are lots of third-party add-ons available.

For information about JAM, try www.jyacc.com (free eval copies of JAM and JAM/Web)
For information about Delphi, try Borland.
For information about Powerbuilder, try Powersoft or Sybase.

Feel free to contact me if you have any real-life questions (Can JAM do this? etc)
or contact the sales folks at JYACC.

Mark McNulty

Note- this reply is my own, and may not reflect the views of JYACC or JP Morgan.

2. New news = new subject

3. Delphi vs Forms and PowerBuilder

4. Desktop calculator for Win95 WANTED

5. PowerBuilder vs VisualBasic vs Oracle's CDE vs C++ vs SQLWindows vs ?

6. Romanee, Spectrum & Haarlemmer

7. Oracle vs Delphi??

8. sorround sound

9. Delphi vs Oracle 2000 ??

10. Article: Comparison of Delphi vs. Visual Basic

11. Borland Delphi vs. MS Visual Basic

12. Delphi vs Developper 2000 v1.2

13. Delphi vs Developper 2000 1.2