NT-Unix war is a continuation of VMS-Unix war (?)

NT-Unix war is a continuation of VMS-Unix war (?)

Post by Jerry Anderso » Tue, 11 Apr 1995 04:00:00




Quote:>VMS fans don't hate UNIX, they just don't understand it :-)

>And anyway, UNIX is just so...well... "inelegant" is the best word to
>describe it.

>Having recently used several UNIX systems, I have to say that they all
>"feel" like a step backwards from VMS into the dark ages of computing.

Re: elegance:  I'm a die-hard VMS supporter (call me an open-minded bigot), but
I must say that in the classic computer science sense of the "elegance" concept
(i.e., an algorithm implemented or solution derived in an optimal way with the
least coding effort), UNIX has it all over stock, uncustomized, off-the-shelf
VMS in some areas.

The trait that UNIX lacks is orthoganality.  IMHO, that's because it was
designed and implemented by commitee (multiple committees, actually) over a
long period of time with no common design spec, no communication between many
of the committee members, and (at least initially) no need to make it good
enough to get people to shell out money for.  Unlike VMS.

Given a large programming project, or the need for real security, or the
requirement that the O/S and the app stay up for any length of time, or the
need to be able to remember and make some degree of sense out of CLI commands
and qualifiers, I'll bet the business and my job on VMS.  Until they pry the
consolidated distribution CDs out of my cold, dead fingers.

                                Jerry Anderson

 
 
 

NT-Unix war is a continuation of VMS-Unix war (?)

Post by rc32.. » Wed, 12 Apr 1995 04:00:00




>>VMS fans don't hate UNIX, they just don't understand it :-)

>>And anyway, UNIX is just so...well... "inelegant" is the best word to
>>describe it.

>>Having recently used several UNIX systems, I have to say that they all
>>"feel" like a step backwards from VMS into the dark ages of computing.

> Re: elegance:  I'm a die-hard VMS supporter (call me an open-minded bigot), but
> I must say that in the classic computer science sense of the "elegance" concept
> (i.e., an algorithm implemented or solution derived in an optimal way with the
> least coding effort), UNIX has it all over stock, uncustomized, off-the-shelf
> VMS in some areas.

> The trait that UNIX lacks is orthoganality.  IMHO, that's because it was
> designed and implemented by commitee (multiple committees, actually) over a
> long period of time with no common design spec, no communication between many
> of the committee members, and (at least initially) no need to make it good
> enough to get people to shell out money for.  Unlike VMS.

>                            Jerry Anderson


But, Jerry, isn't that "orthagonality" what users perceive as the essence of an
OS?  It is not how the low-level calls are actually implimented in code (as
long as they WORK), but their ease-of-use and the consistency of the
environment they have to work in that provides their perception of the OS.  In
these aspects, VMS has it all over Unix, of any flavor.
--
**************************************************************************
Randy Hawley   | All opinions expressed |            John 3:16
Eli Lilly & Co | are mine, not theirs   | I'm not perfect, just Forgiven !
**************************************************************************

There is just no sense in trying to argue Science with an Environmentalist

 
 
 

NT-Unix war is a continuation of VMS-Unix war (?)

Post by Jerry Anderso » Wed, 12 Apr 1995 04:00:00



Quote:>But, Jerry, isn't that "orthagonality" what users perceive as the essence
>of an OS?  It is not how the low-level calls are actually implimented in
>code (as long as they WORK), but their ease-of-use and the consistency of
>the environment they have to work in that provides their perception of the
>OS.  In these aspects, VMS has it all over Unix, of any flavor.

Yep, you're right.  Perception is indeed reality, and the CLI is where most
users do their perceiving.  Witness that Unix was never a real market threat
until they slapped on an easy to use, consistent graphical interface (which
masks the chaos beneath to all but true *s).  I was just taking
issue with Roger's use of the term "elegant".  

I figure that if I'm gonna participate here, I've got to learn to be a little
crotchety just in self-defense.

                        Jerry Anderson

 
 
 

1. NT-Unix war is a contiunation of VMS-Unix war (?)


I was at a DEC/MS conference on Windows NT last fall, and DEC went out of their
way to say NT was the successor to VMS.

The one class on porting Unix to NT was worth going just to watch the hair
on the back of the Unix guys necks stand up <G>.

--
Tom Krotchko

"The information contained in this article represents my current view on
the issues discussed at the date of posting.  Because I must respond
to changing market conditions, it should not be interpreted to be a
commitment on my part, and I cannot guarantee the accuracy of any
information presented after the date of posting"

2. pgcc and GCC_EXEC_PREFIX

3. Endian wars - How to convert VAX double to x86 unix

4. how can i get last lsp code

5. Unix wars/Trek story

6. SSL accessing delay - min 1 minute!

7. OS-wars: Unix file system(s)

8. Profiles for MS SideWinder Force Feedback Pro Joystick

9. OS-wars: UNIX file system(s)

10. OS-wars: Unix file system(s)

11. VMS log. name search list length (CLI war)

12. FWD: RE: NFS between VMS & Unix (was Re: dropping VAX in favor of UNIX :-()

13. Star wars in ascii art !