EMC Symmetrix on VMScluster?

EMC Symmetrix on VMScluster?

Post by Scott Snadow, GTE Directories (9 » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00



Anybody running EMC Symmetrix storage on their VMSclusters?

I've asked this question before, but received few answers.  This
time, we're getting closer to actually trying the stuff.  And it'd
be nice if I could talk to somebody that's actually used it, in a
VMScluster, other than EMC employees talking about what they've
done in their own lab in Hopkinton.

Since EMC has graciously provided me with just ONE reference ---
and they gave me his name on the afternoon before he went on
vacation --- the outcome is predictable: I haven't had my voicemail
message returned.

So now I'm searching for references on my own.  Please feel free
to reply to my e-mail address (below), or to the newsgroups as
you wish (this message has been crossposted to comp.os.vms and
comp.arch.storage).

EMC, ARE YOU LISTENING?  OR ARE YOU AFRAID?  Sorry to be so
inflammatory in a public forum (OK, I'm not sorry), but I've
been asking you for references for several weeks now.  Casually
dropping names of other big corporations is NOT a reference, by
the way.  I want NAMES and PHONE NUMBERS (or EMAIL ADDRESSES) of
REAL PEOPLE (other than EMC employees).  And please don't waste
my time, nor the reference's time, by directing me to top-level
executives --- I want to talk to system managers.

Scott "not speaking for my employer (not DIRECTLY, anyway)" Snadow
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Scott Snadow, Former Californian.  I wasn't born in Texas,  |
|              but I got here as fast as I could!              |

+--------------------------------------------------------------+

 
 
 

EMC Symmetrix on VMScluster?

Post by Dan O'Reill » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00



Quote:>Anybody running EMC Symmetrix storage on their VMSclusters?

>I've asked this question before, but received few answers.  This
>time, we're getting closer to actually trying the stuff.  And it'd
>be nice if I could talk to somebody that's actually used it, in a
>VMScluster, other than EMC employees talking about what they've
>done in their own lab in Hopkinton.

Without being too specific about it (the letters "NDA" apply here),
the short answer is "only if you want to MSCP-serve them".   Even
then, you may or may not run into problems with VMS identifying the
devices as unknown SCSI devices.  I doubt strongly you'll ever see
true CI-cluster supported devices from EMC.

Besides, the performance numbers and costs of Symmetrix, especially
for smaller (<250gb) applications, simply don't justify the cost of doing
that.  StorageWorks is a much better alternative.

--
Dan O'Reilly
MCI Telcommunications
Systems Engineering/BT NIP
MS 1183/117
2424 Garden of the Gods Rd
Colorado Springs, CO  80919
719-535-1418

 
 
 

EMC Symmetrix on VMScluster?

Post by Kevin Beasl » Thu, 07 May 1998 04:00:00


Scott:

I saw your post back in April, but at that time I did not have any
facts.  Now (as of 1-May-1998) I do, so here goes.

I just finished setting up a 2 node, AS4100 cluster with the following
parts in each of the systems:

1: AS4100 5/533, 2 cpu's, 2GB memory, OVMS 7.1-1H1, 1 UltraScsi
Adapter (for StorageWorks shelf), 1 DE500-BA, 1 Memory Channel, and 1
KZPSA-BA for the EMC connection. The systems are identical (makes life
easy later on).   We built a SCSI hub out of a BA-356 shelf in 16 bit
mode, and 3 DWZZB-VA's (2 in from Alphas, 1 out to EMC).

2: EMC Symmetrix 5700 with FWD SCSI Controller ports.  The OpenSystems
volumes are set up as 4.3GB for VMS's viewing pleasure.

I put a copy of my FIS disk on an EMC volume and booted the first
machine there.  The first time I did this I made a mistake by not
setting up DECnet Phase IV first and by not loading the licenses for
all DEC layered products for both cluster nodes prior to running
CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM.  This cost me about 4 hours of work, but I learned
quite a bit on the way.

BTW, the quorum disk is on EMC as well.

After getting the first system root set up correctly, I simply ran
CLUSTER_CONFIG and added the second root to the system disk.  I booted
the second node into [sys1] and off we went.

The cluster is behaving just as one would expect, with the exception
that the Memory Channel is a little "tweaky".  I have DEC hardware
support working on this.  As long as the machines boot at the same
time, the MC is used for the cluster interconnect.  If one machine is
dropped, it rejoins after reboot by using the NI.  This is a
documented *feature*, but I don't have to like it.  

Today, we are building a cluster with 2 AS8400 5/625's and an AS4100
5/533.  The 8400's are identical machines, right down to the placement
of the three PCI busses and the cards in them.  These machines have 4
KZPSA's each, even though we will only start out with 2 scsi busses
connected to EMC.  We built 2 scsi hubs for the two connections, but
in all ways this cluster will look like the 2 node cluster described
above.  We should have this cluster built and running by the end of
the week.

The biggest potential source of problems is connecting up the machines
to the storage.  We got our DEC Field Engineer to reconfig the
machines so that each machine is identical, as far as the PCI busses
and the adapters in them are concerned.  My three words of advice are
"LABEL! LABEL! LABEL!".  We laid out every cable in advance, we
labeled the scsi hubs, the cables, the PCI busses, the consoles, the
machines, just everything.  By being overly careful at this step, you
are almost guaranteed to not have crossed-connected scsi's or memory
channels.

I ended up using both node allocation classes and port allocation
classes, even though it is not required.  The reason I did this is so
that I can mount the internal StorageWorks devices from either node to
the cluster without device naming conflicts.

In my opinion, doing a SCSI cluster is a pain in the butt, it is very
complex to set up or change, and a little bit edgy when you are a
traditional CI person.   However, the EMC disks are FAST and reliable.
The image backup from the UltraScsi FIS disk to an EMC volume ran in
6.5 minutes, with both /verify and /log !.  

The gotcha on EMC is that the microcode has to be very recent to make
the volumes work right with OVMS.

Feel free to email me or phone me if you want to get deeper into this.

Regards,



>Anybody running EMC Symmetrix storage on their VMSclusters?

>I've asked this question before, but received few answers.  This
>time, we're getting closer to actually trying the stuff.  And it'd
>be nice if I could talk to somebody that's actually used it, in a
>VMScluster, other than EMC employees talking about what they've
>done in their own lab in Hopkinton.

>Since EMC has graciously provided me with just ONE reference ---
>and they gave me his name on the afternoon before he went on
>vacation --- the outcome is predictable: I haven't had my voicemail
>message returned.

>So now I'm searching for references on my own.  Please feel free
>to reply to my e-mail address (below), or to the newsgroups as
>you wish (this message has been crossposted to comp.os.vms and
>comp.arch.storage).

>EMC, ARE YOU LISTENING?  OR ARE YOU AFRAID?  Sorry to be so
>inflammatory in a public forum (OK, I'm not sorry), but I've
>been asking you for references for several weeks now.  Casually
>dropping names of other big corporations is NOT a reference, by
>the way.  I want NAMES and PHONE NUMBERS (or EMAIL ADDRESSES) of
>REAL PEOPLE (other than EMC employees).  And please don't waste
>my time, nor the reference's time, by directing me to top-level
>executives --- I want to talk to system managers.

>Scott "not speaking for my employer (not DIRECTLY, anyway)" Snadow
>--
>+--------------------------------------------------------------+
>|  Scott Snadow, Former Californian.  I wasn't born in Texas,  |
>|              but I got here as fast as I could!              |

>+--------------------------------------------------------------+

Kevin Beasley
Clinical Systems Manager
Emory HealthCare
Atlanta, GA
404.727.4670

 
 
 

1. EMC Symmetrix on OpenVMS ?

Hi,

Has anyone tried connecting their Alphaserver to EMC Symmetrix? My OS level
is OpenVMS V6.2. As this doesn't support multiple path access to disks drive
yet, I need some suggestion on how to create a configuration that will
prevent single point of failure. Is there anyway to protect from the SCSI
HBA failure aside from using volume shadowing? EMC disks are already
mirrored protected. If I use volume shadowing, I will end up with 4 copies
which is too much.

Thanks in advance,

Carlos

2. Sharp Mobilon---Dial-up-Networking Problems

3. EMC / Symmetrix information requested

4. WTB: Fax software that auto switches between fax/answering machine

5. Wanted: feedback on EMC Symmetrix & IBM Shark in OpenVMS clusters

6. Using Google Web service using COM API

7. EMC Symmetrix storage and OpenVMS

8. Athlon 2200+ wird nur als 1500+ erkannt, nichts geht, Betriebssysteminstallationen werden abgebrochen!!!

9. Wanted: feedback on EMC Symmetrix & IBM Shark in OpenVMS clusters

10. News Release: EMC Symmetrix Named World's Best Storage System For IBMiSeries Servers

11. OVMS on Symmetrix

12. Symmetrix EMC2 5200

13. number of fiber connections from alpha to switch and from switch to symmetrix