MQSeries

MQSeries

Post by Jakob Erbe » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:50:13



Hello,

is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

regards

Jakob Erber

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Jan-Erik S?derhol » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:14:59


I know a case where it's used to glue together a DEC/EDI
installation on VMS/Alpha with a "native" MQS on a IBM
mainframe system. As far as I know (don't work with it directly
myself) it at least "works". Have been used for years under
fairly heavy load.

I'v no idea about cost, support and so on.

Jan-Erik S?derholm.


> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> regards

> Jakob Erber


 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by John Smit » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:54:59



Quote:> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

I have not used it on VMS, but I have used it extensively on Solaris and AIX
(1994-2000). It works exactly as advertised. It is pretty easy to use...you
really only need concern yourself with about 4-5 command verbs for most
applications.
 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Neil Riec » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:30:49


My boss wanted me to write an MQSeries interface for our Alpha VMS-7.2
system. However, I ran into some problems when this particular job also
required that the MQSeries client software at my end would need to connect
to a distant MQSeries queue via a non-standard (proprietary) VPN. Since the
only VPN client available was for Windows, I decided to create an MQSeries
gateway machine on a PC (which was running MQSeries Client as well as some
custom software written in Visual-C under Windows-2000) which would then
connect to a second PC (running a demo version of MQSeries Server under
Windows-2000) for simulated testing between the two. Our Alpha starts
everything by FTPing to the first PC. The first PC then converts from ASCII
to EBCDIC then sends to the second PC. Then the first PC then pulls it all
back and sends it to the Alpha. In the production software the second PC is
replaced by our remote customer's MQSeries system which is running on an IBM
OS-390.

The following URL may, or may not, be of some use to you.

Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/mqseries_client_on_openvms.html


Quote:> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> regards

> Jakob Erber

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Shael Richmon » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:02:38



> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

We've used version 2.2 for years on the Alpha.  We have a couple of
locations
using version 5.1 now.  It works fine, we use it to communicate from the
Alpha's
at remote sites to a central mainframe.  We even do a little with Windows.

Overall it's stable and works good.  We've seen a few cases where it seems
to step on itself.  VMS specific support is iffy at best.

Shael

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Eva » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:03:23





> > Hello,

> > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> I have not used it on VMS, but I have used it extensively on Solaris and AIX
> (1994-2000). It works exactly as advertised. It is pretty easy to use...you
> really only need concern yourself with about 4-5 command verbs for most
> applications.

my experience has been painful. we've recently upgraded to v5 and have
been working out problems for several weeks. ibm has very little vms
support and virtually none in the states. we recently dropped mqsi,
another type of message transfer they offer. i'd look for alternatives
 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by John Smit » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:02:08






> > > Hello,

> > > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS
AXP?
> > > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> > I have not used it on VMS, but I have used it extensively on Solaris and
AIX
> > (1994-2000). It works exactly as advertised. It is pretty easy to
use...you
> > really only need concern yourself with about 4-5 command verbs for most
> > applications.

> my experience has been painful. we've recently upgraded to v5 and have
> been working out problems for several weeks. ibm has very little vms
> support and virtually none in the states. we recently dropped mqsi,
> another type of message transfer they offer. i'd look for alternatives

That reminds me ....there was supposed to be a 'common' messaging standard
of some sort worked out years ago. Can't recall what the acronym was...but
it was being worked on by IBM, Peerlogic, Momentum (X-IPC????), and Digital
(before DECmessageQ) was sold to BEA. If the common interface standard was
ever worked out, and you are implementing messaging for the first time,
maybe you should call BEA to see what they have that is more VMS-friendly.

One of the stock exchanges did a beauty contest of all the available
messaging software back in 1994-timeframe, and liked both DECmessageQ and
IBM MQ, but settled on MQ because they didn't believe that Digital would
maintain the product long enough for them to be able to recommend
DECmessageQ to their members for long-term use. Prescient. I still may even
have a copy of their study someplace.

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Jack Fortun » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:10:54



> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> regards

> Jakob Erber

We have been using MQSeries version 2.2.1.1 for almost two years. It has proved to be very
stable and reliable. We use it to exchange data with Solaris, AS400, and MVS (I think) systems.

Since the MQSeries development & support people know precious little about VMS, let alone
VMS Clusters; we've had to re-write some of the startup/shutdown DCL. Once big annoyance
for me is that there are some MQSeries utilities that can only be run interactively - i.e. I've not
been able to embed these utility commands within DCL code.

Our big issue nowadays is that we are trying to upgrade MQSeries 2.2.1.1 to 5.1. Since the
MQSeries development group seems to have no clue about clusters, they place a lot of files into
SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] and SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]. This presents a great obstacle to
loading MQSeries 5.1 onto one cluster member while continuing to run MQSeries 2.2.1.1 on
another node which share a common system disk.

Jack Fortune
Fedex Trade Networks
Atlanta, GA

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by David Awerbu » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:09:08


Jakob,

I am an MQSeries architect / developer.  I have worked extensively
with MQ on the VAX, and have installed the product for test on the
same client's Alpha system.

I have had a good experience with the Alpha version (release 5.1).  As
with all MQSeries platform offerings, it is difficult to break, does
not lose messages, and gets the data across channels painlessly and
easily.  Now, aside from the marketing hype, the installation was
painless; throughput beats the *out of the VAX version (release
2.2.1).  What specificalyl would you like to know?

Regards,
David Awerbuch
APC Consulting Servcies, Inc.
Automated Solutions To Business Problems
West Hempstead, NY

(516) 481-6440


> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> regards

> Jakob Erber

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Jakob Erbe » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:51:12


Hello,

thanks a lot for all these replies. I was suprised about how many people had
something to say.

We are going to try using MQSeries in order to connect our large VMS AXP
installation to the new EAI Infrastructure, based on Seebeyonds 'e*gate',
which is not avail on VMS, but a a connector (eway) for MQ. We would have
prefered BEA MessageQ (former DEC Message Q), but BEA itself did not
recommend that we buy this product. Seems they do not want to support it in
the future. The MQ product seems to fit quite clumsily into the VMS
environment at the first clance and is very expensive too. IBM presses hard,
cause we do not indent to buy the rest of their Websphere suite.

More questions concerning the MQ product are:

1) Have there been problems in interoperability with MQ on other plattforms
(Windoze, Tru64, Sun)
2) Is it a good way, trying to manage the MQ Installation on VMS through a
PC (remote management feature)?
3) Does somebody has special hints, how to diagnoze problems on VMS best?

best regards

Jakob

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by John Smit » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:14:28


I've used MQ v1.x thru 5  on Solaris and AIX, in both cases talking to MQ on
OS/390 without problems. We also had the Solaris and AIX boxes 'talking' MQ
to one another without any problems. Wait a moment...I seem to recollect
some issue when we had a v2.x trying to talk with a v5.x installation, but I
can't recall the details. But generally, no problems when talking same
version to same version.

For VMS, just make sure that you have a sufficient disk quota set for the
account that owns the MQ processes. MQ is 'store/forward' so if the link
goes down, MQ continues to queue transactions awaiting restoration of the
link. Without sufficient disk quota, you can get in trouble. Not so much a
problem under unix the way most are configured (no quota).


Quote:> Hello,

> thanks a lot for all these replies. I was suprised about how many people
had
> something to say.

> We are going to try using MQSeries in order to connect our large VMS AXP
> installation to the new EAI Infrastructure, based on Seebeyonds 'e*gate',
> which is not avail on VMS, but a a connector (eway) for MQ. We would have
> prefered BEA MessageQ (former DEC Message Q), but BEA itself did not
> recommend that we buy this product. Seems they do not want to support it
in
> the future. The MQ product seems to fit quite clumsily into the VMS
> environment at the first clance and is very expensive too. IBM presses
hard,
> cause we do not indent to buy the rest of their Websphere suite.

> More questions concerning the MQ product are:

> 1) Have there been problems in interoperability with MQ on other
plattforms
> (Windoze, Tru64, Sun)
> 2) Is it a good way, trying to manage the MQ Installation on VMS through a
> PC (remote management feature)?
> 3) Does somebody has special hints, how to diagnoze problems on VMS best?

> best regards

> Jakob

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Bill McLaughl » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:55:29



> Hello,

> is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> regards

> Jakob Erber

We use the MQ client on Alpha VMS systems, with the server hosted on
AIX systems. Overall, the product is not bad. One thing to watch out
for that got us is their use of common event flags. Some of our older
software was using common event flag cluster 2 and MQSeries also uses
this cluster. Shortly after installing MQSeries and using it in some
of the code, our software would develop mysterious hangs. After many
conversations with IBM, they admitted that they were using cluster 2
but had not documented it. Once we changed our old code to use cluster
3 the problems went away. The only other complaint I have is fairly
minor one-- just like with Oracle, it's often difficult to find
someone at IBM that is familiar with VMS.

Regards,

Bill McLaughlin

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Gerald Mars » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:15:24


Hello Jakob,

I've been using MQSeries on OpenVMS for about a few years. Initially
we had some chronic resource problems but soon sorted them out. (BTW,
the MQ process quotas are controlled via system logical names. For
instance, MQS_FILLM. I believe they are still subject to the vagaries
of the PQL parameters, however.)

MQ's error reporting is interesting - a potential trawl through six
different error logs to find the correct one! It is one of those rare
breeds which creates a system error log entry if it has a really *
problem. V2.2.1.1 is a great improvement on its predecessor regarding
its error reporting so I suspect V5.1 - which we intend to install in
a few weeks - should be even better.

If you are able create a program to read the event queues within MQ.
We have a simple program which interprets the message, creates HTML
and sends it to a webserver for detailed display. (It also reports the
event to Tivoli.)

A word of warning if you are using the IBM supplied examples to put
and get messages - they do not conform to OpenVMS' error handling and
you can get fatal exceptions reported as successes. (It's not that
tricky to get the things to behave, though. Send me an email if you
want more details.)

We use MQ in a highly business critical environment to talk to MVS,
AIX and NT systems. Of the implementations I suggest that OpenVMS' is
the most robust (there again I would say that!).

It was interesting to read that someone has had problems in running
the utilities from batch jobs. We use their utilities extensively -
for instance with Robomon - to look out for anything * happening,
like excessive queue depths.

Some good advice is to set define the system logical MQS_VMSERR to "1"
as this would give more diagnostics.

Over the years we have developed tools and techniques to ensure that
MQ is behaving itself. Drop me an email if you'd like more hints and
tips on this. The Java interface (via a server channel) is also very
useful. I've used it to graphically display depths of queues and to
place very large messages on a queue which would exceed DCL's limits.

Good luck with it!

Gerald.

Gerald Marsh

gerald -at- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- uk

On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:51:12 +0200, "Jakob Erber"


>Hello,

>thanks a lot for all these replies. I was suprised about how many people had
>something to say.

>We are going to try using MQSeries in order to connect our large VMS AXP
>installation to the new EAI Infrastructure, based on Seebeyonds 'e*gate',
>which is not avail on VMS, but a a connector (eway) for MQ. We would have
>prefered BEA MessageQ (former DEC Message Q), but BEA itself did not
>recommend that we buy this product. Seems they do not want to support it in
>the future. The MQ product seems to fit quite clumsily into the VMS
>environment at the first clance and is very expensive too. IBM presses hard,
>cause we do not indent to buy the rest of their Websphere suite.

>More questions concerning the MQ product are:

>1) Have there been problems in interoperability with MQ on other plattforms
>(Windoze, Tru64, Sun)
>2) Is it a good way, trying to manage the MQ Installation on VMS through a
>PC (remote management feature)?
>3) Does somebody has special hints, how to diagnoze problems on VMS best?

>best regards

>Jakob

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Shael Richmon » Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:02:14



> Hello,

> thanks a lot for all these replies. I was suprised about how many people had
> something to say.

> We are going to try using MQSeries in order to connect our large VMS AXP
> installation to the new EAI Infrastructure, based on Seebeyonds 'e*gate',
> which is not avail on VMS, but a a connector (eway) for MQ. We would have
> prefered BEA MessageQ (former DEC Message Q), but BEA itself did not
> recommend that we buy this product. Seems they do not want to support it in
> the future. The MQ product seems to fit quite clumsily into the VMS
> environment at the first clance and is very expensive too. IBM presses hard,
> cause we do not indent to buy the rest of their Websphere suite.

> More questions concerning the MQ product are:

> 1) Have there been problems in interoperability with MQ on other plattforms
> (Windoze, Tru64, Sun)

No problems connecting to WinNT, AS/400, or MVS.  Initially MQ on VMS
ran better then MQ on AS/400.

Quote:> 2) Is it a good way, trying to manage the MQ Installation on VMS through a
> PC (remote management feature)?

With version 5.1 you are supposed to be able to manage VMS via JAVA or
the MQexplorer product on Windows.

Quote:> 3) Does somebody has special hints, how to diagnoze problems on VMS best?

As someone mentioned turnon VMSERR and get used to looking at all the log files.

Shael

 
 
 

MQSeries

Post by Marc Van Dyc » Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:43:39


If I remember well the days when I was writing code,
when you need an EF, you call LIB$GET_EF which
will return to you the number of an EF that is not used
by anyone else. Of course, for that method to be safe,
everyone must use it (and also LIB$FREE_EF to free
the EF when you don't need it anymore). I suspect your
application's code doesn't use it, and MQSeries probably
neither. That's a serious breach of the rules explained in
the OpenVMS documentation.

Marc



Quote:> > Hello,

> > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?
> > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.

> > regards

> > Jakob Erber

> We use the MQ client on Alpha VMS systems, with the server hosted on
> AIX systems. Overall, the product is not bad. One thing to watch out
> for that got us is their use of common event flags. Some of our older
> software was using common event flag cluster 2 and MQSeries also uses
> this cluster. Shortly after installing MQSeries and using it in some
> of the code, our software would develop mysterious hangs. After many
> conversations with IBM, they admitted that they were using cluster 2
> but had not documented it. Once we changed our old code to use cluster
> 3 the problems went away. The only other complaint I have is fairly
> minor one-- just like with Oracle, it's often difficult to find
> someone at IBM that is familiar with VMS.

> Regards,

> Bill McLaughlin

 
 
 

1. MQSeries connection broken error on OVMS

The client that I am currently working with recently had a problem
with MQSeries V2.2 on OVMS 6.2.  I thought I would try to contribute
to the common reservoir of knowledge by posting the results of the
problem determination.

The problem we were having was a reason code 2009 (connection broken)
being returned on MQOPEN calls, after a successful MQCONN call, in our
application code.

When this condition would occur, we would be unable to even execute
RUNMQSC. We would get "Connection broken" error messages printed out
immediately after the "Starting MQSeries Commands" message and then
the program would exit. Receiver channels would be unable to start,
sometimes producing messages in the error log files, sometimes not.

The application code had previously been run without problem, the only
difference being that we were now running three instances of the
application instead of one.

When the condition would first arise, an FDC file would be produced in
the [mqm.errors] directory with the following messages in it:

|  Major Errorcode   :- xecF_E_UNEXPECTED_RC                        
|  Minor Errorcode   :- xecL_W_SEM_OWNER_DIED                      

| VMS Errorcode     :- -SYSTEM-W-NONEXPR, nonexistent process (000008E8)
| VMS error         :-
|      open: decc$open returned -1, errno no such device or address

When I reported the problem to IBM, the technical support person
searched his database and got a hit on the Major and Minor error
codes. The solution that had been recommended to that customer was to
increase the "page file quota" for the queue manager from 100,000 to
1,000,000 by defining the logical MQS_PGFLQUOTA accordingly in the MQ
startup COM file. This turned out to be a huge overkill, but it did
work.

All this stuff is documented, if somewhat vaguely, in bits and pieces
in the "System Management Guide", the "Troubleshooting guide" (support
pac MHD1), and the MQS_SYSTARTUP.TEMPLATE COM file.

Thanks to IBM MQSeries technical support. This is the second time we
had to report a problem to them and both times the problems were
resolved satisfactorily.

--
Tom Dockray

2. Describe or Ami Pro ?

3. MQseries Publish/Subscribe on OpenVMS

4. ftp^^^^

5. MQSeries Triggering on VAX ?

6. where is gcc?

7. MQSeries on VAX, TCP/IP problem?

8. Very vexing problem with Easylink - Mail.Com - Email.Com - iName.Com - et al.

9. MQSeries for OpenVMS Error

10. MQSeries

11. MQSeries on VMS (WAS: Using system to execute a program)