ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by David J. Dachter » Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:29:17



Here's the URL:

http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...

No mention of VMS.

Chalk up another one for Compaq marketing "no how".

No misspelling there: Who's gonna market VMS? As they said in "The
Wizard of Oz", "Not nobody, not no how!"

--
David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/

Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by JF Meze » Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:41:07



> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...

> No mention of VMS.

Yeah, but there are lots of news in that article. The first sentense is funny though:
                                 REFRESHING ITS COMMITMENT to the company's RISC-based
                      AlphaServer product line, Compaq on Tuesday introduced
three new
                      AlphaServer offerings.

(uppercase is part of article).

But the big clincher is:
##
Compaq will support its Alpha customers indefinitely and OS transitions to
Itanium should be seamless, but around 2003  the Alpha road map will morph to
Itanium and new versions of Alpha chips will be designed by an Intel team.
##

Got to give it to the producers of the Curly&Carly show, they sure know how to
stimulate the media with all sorts of funny statements.

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by Ed Wilt » Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:14:02




> Here's the URL:

> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...

> No mention of VMS.

> Chalk up another one for Compaq marketing "no how".

However, read the announcement on http://www.theregister.co.uk.  VMS is
clearly mentioned.  I don't think you've got a Compaq problem, but rather
an InfoWorld problem.

        .../Ed

--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by Bill Tod » Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:29:46



http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...
m

Quote:

> > No mention of VMS.

> Yeah, but there are lots of news in that article. The first sentense is
funny though:
> REFRESHING ITS COMMITMENT to the company's RISC-based
>                       AlphaServer product line, Compaq on Tuesday
introduced
> three new
>                       AlphaServer offerings.

> (uppercase is part of article).

> But the big clincher is:
> ##
> Compaq will support its Alpha customers indefinitely and OS transitions to
> Itanium should be seamless, but around 2003  the Alpha road map will morph
to
> Itanium and new versions of Alpha chips will be designed by an Intel team.
> ##

> Got to give it to the producers of the Curly&Carly show, they sure know
how to
> stimulate the media with all sorts of funny statements.

I suspect it was simply reporter confusion about the chips that will be
starting to appear in 'AlphaServers' (if that brand is still used) at about
that time (which of course will be 100% Itanic in nature, save for the
'legacy' real Alphas).

But I particularly enjoyed the statement

"I think the ES45 is further indication that we are absolutely committed to
the Alpha road map, and there is no backing off that commitment," she said.

Now that the Alpha road map has a big "Dead End!" sign and barricade well
this side of the horizon, it's possible that *this* commitment might
actually be adhered to - but I can't find it in my heart to give Compaq any
credit for that.

- bill

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by Alan Grei » Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:19:17


On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:29:17 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"


>Here's the URL:

>http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...

>No mention of VMS.

I just read it and it says:

"The ES45 is a four-way Unix server capable of running Compaq's Tru64
and OpenVMS operating systems, as well as Linux, Kahle said."

Kalhle being "Jackie Kahle, vice president of marketing for Compaq's
high-performance system division."

Has someone contacted them and had it corrected? If so well done.

Quote:>Chalk up another one for Compaq marketing "no how".

>No misspelling there: Who's gonna market VMS? As they said in "The
>Wizard of Oz", "Not nobody, not no how!"

--
Alan
 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by Robert Deining » Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:14:06




> Here's the URL:

> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...

> No mention of VMS.

It does mention VMS:

"The ES45 is a four-way Unix server capable of running Compaq's Tru64 and
OpenVMS operating systems, as well as Linux, Kahle said."

--
Robert Deininger

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by John McLea » Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:15:04






> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/10/16/011016hncompaq.xml?...
> m

> > > No mention of VMS.

> > Yeah, but there are lots of news in that article. The first sentense is
> funny though:
> > REFRESHING ITS COMMITMENT to the company's RISC-based
> >                       AlphaServer product line, Compaq on Tuesday
> introduced
> > three new
> >                       AlphaServer offerings.

> > (uppercase is part of article).

> > But the big clincher is:
> > ##
> > Compaq will support its Alpha customers indefinitely and OS transitions to
> > Itanium should be seamless, but around 2003  the Alpha road map will morph
> to
> > Itanium and new versions of Alpha chips will be designed by an Intel team.
> > ##

> > Got to give it to the producers of the Curly&Carly show, they sure know
> how to
> > stimulate the media with all sorts of funny statements.

> I suspect it was simply reporter confusion about the chips that will be
> starting to appear in 'AlphaServers' (if that brand is still used) at about
> that time (which of course will be 100% Itanic in nature, save for the
> 'legacy' real Alphas).

> But I particularly enjoyed the statement

> "I think the ES45 is further indication that we are absolutely committed to
> the Alpha road map, and there is no backing off that commitment," she said.

> Now that the Alpha road map has a big "Dead End!" sign and barricade well
> this side of the horizon, it's possible that *this* commitment might
> actually be adhered to - but I can't find it in my heart to give Compaq any
> credit for that.

> - bill

It's interesting that Compaq should say that the ES45 is a unix box when
Tru64 will clash with HP Unix and 64 will probably die as a result
(after some clustering things have been transferred).

Also on this thought, if Tru64 dies that would have left only VMS on
Alpha, so perhaps this is also why Alpha is disappearing; the costs of
supporting a processor for one "niche" operating system could not be
justified.

BTW, I love the continuous claims that the transition from Alpha to
Intel should be seamless.  Is this a reassuring comment to customers,
one that is supported by facts, or is it wishful thinking that it
"should" (but possibly won't) be the way things go.

John McLean

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by Terry C. Shanno » Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:39:33



Quote:

> BTW, I love the continuous claims that the transition from Alpha to
> Intel should be seamless.  Is this a reassuring comment to customers,
> one that is supported by facts, or is it wishful thinking that it
> "should" (but possibly won't) be the way things go.

Methinks it all depends on what the meaning of the word "seamless" is. Note
that Tandem did a CISC-to-RISC transition with minimal disruption to the
customer base. VAX to Alpha was more disruptive, but it was a reasonably
successful transition nonetheless. (And would have been more successful had
DEC managed the marketing, positioning, and phase-in more coherently.)
 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by JF Meze » Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:40:35



> Methinks it all depends on what the meaning of the word "seamless" is. Note
> that Tandem did a CISC-to-RISC transition with minimal disruption to the
> customer base. VAX to Alpha was more disruptive, but it was a reasonably
> successful transition nonetheless. (And would have been more successful had
> DEC managed the marketing, positioning, and phase-in more coherently.)

VAX to ALPHA wasn't seen as such a dismal failure because it was overshadowned
by Digital dropping a large portion of the software portfolio that had made
VMS popular, so any porting failures were in fact blamed on DEC abandonning products.

Digital used the Alpha port as an excuse to drop its leadership position in
messaging for instance, by not porting Message Router and all the Digital and
3rd party gateways that existed, not providing an upgrade path to its newer
Mailbus 400 product which never got off the ground, and forcing messaging
customers to keep some vaxes in their network/cluster to handle the messaging
portion that couldn't run on Alpha. At the very least, Digital could have
bowed out of the MTA business and made PMDF the official product for messaging backbone.

This, of course, was the prelude which gave some paper ammunition to Bobby GQ
Palmer to dump email alltogether and force all Digital to start using
Microsoft products for corporate email etc etc.

Had the VMS engineers accomplished the same level of porting as the Apple
engineers had done, Digital could not have used the VAX->ALPHA migration as an
excuse to drop so many products since VAX executables could have been run on
Alpha transparently by customers. Digital could have had all its products
automatically ported to Alpha, leaving the marginal products in emulation mode.

There is much less software available on VMS now, so I guess the port to
Itanium won't result in so many software apps not being ported. However, I
suspect that much of the 3rd party freeware applications won't make it to
IA64. If customers don't move to IA64, the apps they maintain won't move to
IA64.

Compaq/HP has an uphill battle to convince VMS customers to want to move to
IA64.  It isn't enough to provide the means to port (the engineer's job), you
also have to make customers want to migrate (marketing's job).

 
 
 

ES45 Announced as "UNIX server" - VMS absent again

Post by Fred Kleinsorg » Sat, 20 Oct 2001 00:47:55



>There is much less software available on VMS now, so I guess the port to
>Itanium won't result in so many software apps not being ported. However, I
>suspect that much of the 3rd party freeware applications won't make it to
>IA64. If customers don't move to IA64, the apps they maintain won't move to
>IA64.

What makes you sure that 3rd party freeware won't make it to Itanium?  Or
that "freeware" is the item critical to our customers operations?
 
 
 

1. "unix" vs "vms" code mgt. tools...

Unix and VMS share many pd code management tools...

Make exists for both...something like mms (or vice versa); script
file embeds info about what calls what. A tool called "makemake"
exists on some OSs (e.g. Amigados) to build makefiles.

SCCS exists on unix. Variants exist on RSX, VMS. These do sorece
oops, source mgt.

More folks use RCS (revision control system). Ports of RCS to
many unix flavors, to VMS, and some other OSs exist.

CVS (concurrent versioning system) exists for unix, but since Perl
exists on VMS, CVS might just run on VMS also; I haven't heard.

RCS and CMS both do source control, allow merging, etc.

There are loads of proprietary tools of these sorts for
unix and for vms. However, claiming that there exist "unix" or
"vms" tools is largely meaningless since most of the good stuff
exists in both places. It is perhaps more meaningful to ask
what versions exist on a particular OS flavor:

e.g. "does RCS V5.6 work on Solaris 2.3" (or indeed, does anything??? :-) )

rather than "does RCS 5.6 work on unix?" (It does, on some unix flavors.)

Glenn

2. Images sent to thermal printer skewed and inverted

3. F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB")

4. SNMP

5. """The Art of Debugging"" Was: Compiler Optimisation problems"

6. Information Wanted: TOUCH DISPLAYS

7. """Problems!"""

8. why the "unit number" disappeared?

9. VMS "sho dev" differs from console "sho dev"

10. "more" and "make" for VMS

11. Dumbing down comp.os.vms with "Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements?"

12. "-" or "/"

13. Cache "Total Size" vs. "Kbytes in use" ??