Very Computer

by **Jean-Guy D. Spet** » Mon, 01 May 1995 04:00:00

After reading so many complaints about the size/speed/bugginess/etc. of
MUI it occurred to me there *must* be a better alternative. While
browsing Aminet (dev/gui) I came upon Triton. From the README:

* Object oriented system
* Automatically font sensitive, font adaptive
* Automatic keyboard shortcuts for default window actions
* *Really* easy to use
* Beautiful customizable AmigaOS3.x look
* Comes as a freely distributable shared library
* Size! Though Triton is very powerful, it is a shared library of
less than 50KB. You don't need any startup tools, BOOPSI classes
or other things. It's the Triton among the minnows of GUI creation
systems ;)
* Resizability of windows wherever applicable
* A Preferences editor which allows you to customize the look and
feel of all Triton GUIs

My question: has anyone used it? I've never come across a program that
uses it. It seems to me this could be the answer. No more 200k
libraries, no more 2.5 meg installations (tri12usr.lha is only 160K).
Speed seems faster than MUI. No crashes (although, I have only the demo
programs to test this on, as I said before, I have no other program which
uses it).

Is there a reason why few (none?) people use this? It may not be as
programmer-powerful as MUI (ie. more work may be involved) but as an
intermediate step between MUI and gadtools I thought I would mention it
and see what kind of response it got. (BTW, I am not saying triton is
harder to develop with than MUI, I have used neither in my programs and
have no idea which is better from a programmer's standpoint.)

Well?

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

http://wlu.edu/~jspeton/homepage.html not know." -- Heraclitus

by **Thomas Eich** » Tue, 02 May 1995 04:00:00

[Triton]

Quote:> My question: has anyone used it? I've never come across a program that
> uses it.

A (really) small number of programs is in development right now.

Quote:> libraries, no more 2.5 meg installations (tri12usr.lha is only 160K).

That includes triton.library _and_ the prefs _and_ the docs!

Quote:> Speed seems faster than MUI.

Yeah.

Quote:> No crashes (although, I have only the demo
> programs to test this on, as I said before, I have no other program which
> uses it).

There are still several bugs in it, but all of them seem to be minor
slips, triton never made my machine crash (exept when fed incorrect
TagLists), always ran bravely. And there's a new release due soon.

Quote:> Is there a reason why few (none?) people use this?

Because everybody talks about MUI.
Because until today, Triton didn't get a Guibuilder. (You have to
create the Gui using TagLists).
Also, some people got pissed because Triton seemed like a free
alternative to MUI as release 1 but turned shareware later.

Quote:> It may not be as
> programmer-powerful as MUI (ie. more work may be involved) but as an
> intermediate step between MUI and gadtools I thought I would mention it
> and see what kind of response it got.

Triton does not offer much that couldn't be implemented with
gadtools. But it's way easier and more flexible.
And it's beautiful.

Quote:> (BTW, I am not saying triton is
> harder to develop with than MUI, I have used neither in my programs and
> have no idea which is better from a programmer's standpoint.)

There _should_ be a builder :-(

Quote:> Well?

Let's hear Stefan's comment on this :-)

mfg, Tom. (Trapped in Paderborn)
--

Windows for the masses - Amiga for the creative mind :^)

by **Stefan Burstro** » Wed, 03 May 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
> After reading so many complaints about the size/speed/bugginess/etc. of
> MUI it occurred to me there *must* be a better alternative. While
> browsing Aminet (dev/gui) I came upon Triton. From the README:

> * Object oriented system
> * Automatically font sensitive, font adaptive
> * Automatic keyboard shortcuts for default window actions
> * *Really* easy to use
> * Beautiful customizable AmigaOS3.x look
> * Comes as a freely distributable shared library
> * Size! Though Triton is very powerful, it is a shared library of
> less than 50KB. You don't need any startup tools, BOOPSI classes
> or other things. It's the Triton among the minnows of GUI creation
> systems ;)
> * Resizability of windows wherever applicable
> * A Preferences editor which allows you to customize the look and
> feel of all Triton GUIs

> My question: has anyone used it? I've never come across a program that
> uses it. It seems to me this could be the answer. No more 200k
> libraries, no more 2.5 meg installations (tri12usr.lha is only 160K).

Which installation of MUI takes 2.5 meg? I cannot understand why people talk
about this figure.
My installation of MUI takes (from memory)
400K for MUI23usr
+2 MEG for MUI23dev and that includes a lot of sourcecodes AGuide doc files etc.

Quote:> Speed seems faster than MUI. No crashes (although, I have only the demo
> programs to test this on, as I said before, I have no other program which
> uses it).

MUI hasn't crashed for me one single time!
If you refer to AMosaic then I'll tell you that I am working on it.
So far AMosaic1.4 beta has crashed _only_ once for me (it didn't crash, it just
started to wait for a packet that didn't show up).
Stop telling people that AMosaic crashes because of MUI!

Quote:
> Is there a reason why few (none?) people use this? It may not be as
> programmer-powerful as MUI (ie. more work may be involved) but as an
> intermediate step between MUI and gadtools I thought I would mention it
> and see what kind of response it got. (BTW, I am not saying triton is
> harder to develop with than MUI, I have used neither in my programs and
> have no idea which is better from a programmer's standpoint.)

I have had a look at both MUI and Triton. I don't remember why, but I
somehow didn't like Triton.

/Stefan Burstroem

by **Zachary A Forsy** » Wed, 03 May 1995 04:00:00

BGUI by the GadToolsBox author Jan van den Baard is an excellent
alternative to MUI in my opinion. Jan is very helpful and only requires
registration if you are going to use BGUI in a Shareware or Commercial
program. The user and the freeware programmer do not need to register
at all.

It has many of the advanced features of MUI (Pages, PopCycles, optional
ARexx class), but it doesn't go too far. The library is ~100K and Jan
has been very prompt with bug fixes and enhancements.

It would be perfect in my opinion if it had a builder, but the GUI
creation is definitely easier than doing it by hand with MUI.

And to boot...it's quick! What a concept... :)

Zach

--
/-------------------------\ /-------------------------------------------\

| 3DO \X/ 4000/040 | University of Minnesota Institute of Tech |
\-------------------------/ \-------------------------------------------/

by **Paul Kolenbrand** » Wed, 03 May 1995 04:00:00

> I have had a look at both MUI and Triton. I don't remember why, but I
> somehow didn't like Triton.

Now that's exactly how I feel. But then about MUI.

Quote:> /Stefan Burstroem

Paul

by **Kasper.B.Graver..** » Thu, 04 May 1995 04:00:00

MSGID: 2:237/36.1 2fa60170
Hi Jean-Guy...
You wrote about <triton.library: MUI replacement?>

JGD> After reading so many complaints about the size/speed/bugginess/etc.
JGD> of
JGD> MUI it occurred to me there *must* be a better alternative. While
JGD> browsing Aminet (dev/gui) I came upon Triton. From the README:

JGD> My question: has anyone used it? I've never come across a program
JGD> that

Try out the mega cool freeware autodoc-lookup-tool called "FetchRefs"
made by Anders Melchiorsen... v1.1a uses Triton.. BTW: FetchRefs is the
best lookup-tool for the Amiga that I've tried... especially when you
consider the price :-)

______ _____________________________ . . .
(___ :|/ /_____ \_ _____ __ _
| / _/ |: / __// ____________ . .
| \ ~\_| _\ .\_ /__:|_
| __ |\____/|________/_______/
! || |==========================
: || | -+ Kasper B. Graversen +-
. || :

... UserInfo1.00:CGIAJGFIBBIDFEECAFEHILDBHGDDBLCGJ01
--- Spot 1.3a #604
* Origin: Det gamle NENA regler jo totalt! (2:237/36.1)

by **Kasper.B.Graver..** » Fri, 05 May 1995 04:00:00

MSGID: 2:237/36.1 2fa74d6c
Hi Thomas...
You wrote about <triton.library: MUI replacement?>

[Triton]

TE> There are still several bugs in it, but all of them seem to be minor
TE> slips, triton never made my machine crash (exept when fed incorrect
TE> TagLists), always ran bravely. And there's a new release due soon.

Two of my friends using triton complained about some refresh bug that the
author denies exist.. too bad THAT bug won't be fixed this time ;)

TE> Because everybody talks about MUI.

Here in Denmark everybody talks about MUI being as slow as windows with
2-4 megs ram on a 286 ;-)

TE> Because until today, Triton didn't get a Guibuilder. (You have to
TE> create the Gui using TagLists).

Is there one out? What's the name of this program?

TE> Also, some people got pissed because Triton seemed like a free
TE> alternative to MUI

So? Are freeware programs bad programs?

TE> as release 1 but turned shareware later.

yeah what a shame.. :-)

TE> There _should_ be a builder :-(

Didn't you just say one existed? hmm well go ahead and make one ! :-)

______ _____________________________ . . .
(___ :|/ /_____ \_ _____ __ _
| / _/ |: / __// ____________ . .
| \ ~\_| _\ .\_ /__:|_
| __ |\____/|________/_______/
! || |==========================
: || | -+ Kasper B. Graversen +-
. || :

... UserInfo1.00:CGIAJGFIBBIDFEECAFEHILDBHGDDBLCGJ01
--- Spot 1.3a #604
* Origin: LB v1.0 - alletiders til multi-rename jobs! (2:237/36.1)

by **Thomas Eich** » Fri, 05 May 1995 04:00:00

[triton]

Quote:> JGD> My question: has anyone used it? I've never come across a program
> JGD> that
> Try out the mega cool freeware autodoc-lookup-tool called "FetchRefs"
> made by Anders Melchiorsen... v1.1a uses Triton.. BTW: FetchRefs is the
> best lookup-tool for the Amiga that I've tried...

I really can support that.

Quote:> especially when you > consider the price :-)

Yeah, Source's included, for those who want to see how Triton
works :-)

mfg, Tom. (Trapped in Paderborn)
--

Cato: Et ceterum censeo MS DOS esse delendam

by **Stefan Zeig** » Fri, 05 May 1995 04:00:00

> Also, some people got pissed because Triton seemed like a free
> alternative to MUI as release 1 but turned shareware later.

I think I've already explained a few times that this is not
true. Triton was a shareware product from the beginning on. With the
introduction of the preferences editor in release 1.1 the concept
changed. From this time on the basic Triton system (mainly
triton.library itself) was freeware. The only shareware part is the
preferences system - which did not yet exist in release 1.0.

Quote:> There _should_ be a builder :-(

Any volunteers? ;)

--

http://www.rhein-main.de/people/szeiger/index.htm

by **Thomas Eich** » Fri, 05 May 1995 04:00:00

Quote:> Hi Thomas...
> You wrote about <triton.library: MUI replacement?>
> Two of my friends using triton complained about some refresh bug that the
> author denies exist.. too bad THAT bug won't be fixed this time ;)

I had a refresh bug too. It disappeared when I reinstalled the
lastest versions of GCC _and_ triton.

Perhaps you could be more specific ?

Quote:> TE> Because everybody talks about MUI.
> Here in Denmark everybody talks about MUI being as slow as windows with
> 2-4 megs ram on a 286 ;-)

At least they talk about it.

Quote:> TE> Because until today, Triton didn't get a Guibuilder. (You have to
> TE> create the Gui using TagLists).
> Is there one out? What's the name of this program?

Sorry, messed up my english. Wanted to say something along the line
"triton's been around for some time now, but still no builder"

Quote:> TE> Also, some people got pissed because Triton seemed like a free
> TE> alternative to MUI
> So? Are freeware programs bad programs?

Where did I say that ?

Quote:> TE> as release 1 but turned shareware later.

For the "Prefs" program only. Like with MUI.

Quote:> yeah what a shame.. :-)

Let's make a deal: I will watch my english, you will watch your
attitude, ok ?

mfg, Tom. (Trapped in Paderborn)
--

WindowError:01B Illegal error. Do not get this error.

by **Kasper.B.Graver..** » Sat, 06 May 1995 04:00:00

MSGID: 2:237/36.1 2fa89aed
Hi Zachary...
You wrote about <triton.library: MUI replacement?>

ZAF> BGUI by the GadToolsBox author Jan van den Baard is an excellent
ZAF> alternative to MUI in my opinion. Jan is very helpful and only
ZAF> requires
ZAF> registration if you are going to use BGUI in a Shareware or
Commercial
ZAF> program. The user and the freeware programmer do not need to
register
ZAF> at all.

NICE! I'm currently using the old GadToolsBox v2.0b (for my userinfomaker
and my link-game :-)

ZAF> It has many of the advanced features of MUI (Pages, PopCycles,
ZAF> optional
ZAF> ARexx class), but it doesn't go too far. The library is ~100K and
Jan
ZAF> has been very prompt with bug fixes and enhancements.

The magic word screams out loud.. A BUILDER?!?!

ZAF> It would be perfect in my opinion if it had a builder, but the GUI
ZAF> creation is definitely easier than doing it by hand with MUI.

nahh.. argh! :-( I guess I have to stick to the GadToolsBox then :-(

______ _____________________________ . . .
(___ :|/ /_____ \_ _____ __ _
| / _/ |: / __// ____________ . .
| \ ~\_| _\ .\_ /__:|_
| __ |\____/|________/_______/
! || |==========================
: || | -+ Kasper B. Graversen +-
. || :

... UserInfo1.00:CGIAJGFIBBIDFEECAFEHILDBHGDDBLCGJ01
--- Spot 1.3a #604
* Origin: Thomas Edison: All Bibles are man-made. (2:237/36.1)

by **Stefan Zeig** » Sun, 07 May 1995 04:00:00

> Two of my friends using triton complained about some refresh bug that the
> author denies exist.. too bad THAT bug won't be fixed this time ;)

I can't remember getting any bug reports concerning refresh.
There were some problems with 'simple refresh' mode though. They were
already fixed in release 1.2. I don't know about any other refresh bugs.

--

http://www.rhein-main.de/people/szeiger/index.htm

by **Thomas Eich** » Wed, 10 May 1995 04:00:00

Quote:> Sometimes
> the names are longer than the gadgets containing these names.. This is
> where the problem occours.

Never heard about that problem, never saw it.
If you can isolate the problem, send the source and a description

Quote:> Also if the name is eg. 12 chars long, and the
> next is only 5 chars sometimes you'll see bits of the old name :(

Sounds to me like someone forgot to place the '\0' as 6th char.

Quote:> >> TE> Also, some people got pissed because Triton seemed like a free
> >> TE> alternative to MUI
> I was just wondering WHY people "got
> pissed" and I hoped you could explain.. thats all..

the sentence continued "but turned shareware later" (which Stefan
did explain better in his post), so where's the question ?

Quote:> How about you read my letters twice before getting mad at me for things
> you've misunderstood?

Not entirely my fault, I'd say.

Quote:> It seems like we have a langual problem, so let's
> stick to that (rather than going 'round "hating" eachother) ok?

Okay with me.

mfg, Tom. (Trapped in Paderborn)
--

**** MICROSOFT WINDOWS V3.1 ****
64Mb RAM SYSTEM 38911 SYSTEM BYTES FREE
READY.
I'll give up my Amiga when they pry it from my cold dead fingers...
[Charlie_Gibbs]

by **Kasper.B.Graver..** » Wed, 10 May 1995 04:00:00

MSGID: 2:237/36.1 2fac8f36
Hi Thomas...
You wrote about <triton.library: MUI replacement?>

>> Try out the mega cool freeware autodoc-lookup-tool called "FetchRefs"
>> made by Anders Melchiorsen... v1.1a uses Triton.. BTW: FetchRefs is the
>> best lookup-tool for the Amiga that I've tried...

TE> I really can support that.

So ofcourse you have sent a postcard to our dear programmer? (I gave him
mine personately - phew I saved $0.5 in stamps :-))

>> especially when you > consider the price :-)
TE> Yeah, Source's included, for those who want to see how Triton
TE> works :-)

So right, though there is a small problem for users not having anything
but the triton-library.. but it's only a triton configuration thing..
Anders is aware of the "bug" now..

______ _____________________________ . . .
(___ :|/ /_____ \_ _____ __ _
| / _/ |: / __// ____________ . .
| \ ~\_| _\ .\_ /__:|_
| __ |\____/|________/_______/
! || |==========================
: || | -+ Kasper B. Graversen +-
. || :

... UI110:EMOIIHAGHEDBJFEEBDCAFEHIMDCBBHCEPDRKFCDHCF01

--- Spot 1.3a #604
* Origin: oOo IconHandler development oOo (2:237/36.1)

by **Kasper.B.Graver..** » Wed, 10 May 1995 04:00:00

MSGID: 2:237/36.1 2fac92c4
Hi Thomas...
You wrote about <triton.library: MUI replacement?>

>> Two of my friends using triton complained about some refresh bug that
the
>> author denies exist.. too bad THAT bug won't be fixed this time ;)
TE> I had a refresh bug too. It disappeared when I reinstalled the
TE> lastest versions of GCC _and_ triton.
TE> Perhaps you could be more specific ?

Ehm, well, it's a danish program called envy (no you don't know it!) it
shows phonenumbers, callhours and stuff on bbs'es here in DK. Sometimes
the names are longer than the gadgets containing these names.. This is
where the problem occours. Also if the name is eg. 12 chars long, and the
next is only 5 chars sometimes you'll see bits of the old name :(

>> TE> Also, some people got pissed because Triton seemed like a free
>> TE> alternative to MUI
>> So? Are freeware programs bad programs?
TE> Where did I say that ?

Where did I claim you said so? I was just wondering WHY people "got
pissed" and I hoped you could explain.. thats all..

>> yeah what a shame.. :-)
TE> Let's make a deal: I will watch my english, you will watch your
TE> attitude, ok ?

How about you read my letters twice before getting mad at me for things
you've misunderstood? It seems like we have a langual problem, so let's
stick to that (rather than going 'round "hating" eachother) ok?

______ _____________________________ . . .
(___ :|/ /_____ \_ _____ __ _
| / _/ |: / __// ____________ . .
| \ ~\_| _\ .\_ /__:|_
| __ |\____/|________/_______/
! || |==========================
: || | -+ Kasper B. Graversen +-
. || :

... UI110:EMOIIHAGHEDBJFEEBDCAFEHIMDCBBHCEPDRKFCDHCF01
--- Spot 1.3a #604
* Origin: Even Russians use UserInfo - why don't YOU? (2:237/36.1)