Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Aaron July Motoll » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



The way I see it....The New Amiga is in no means going to be a
Revolution. I just don't see it being able to gain enough ground.
(Anyone know current user estimates) I am also sure that it will be a
better seller in Europe then in the US. Our European Brothers have it
better there then we do here in the states. IMHO. I think that the only
way for it to gain the support is through the Partnerships with
prominent company's. IE AMD, Intel, Micron. Also HP and Mitsubishi. If
they could somehow become a part of this. They would have there
prominence and be able to propell the Amiga into a larger sector. Also I
think if Advertising against Apple and IBM-Esque machines then people
feed up with those machines would be more inclined to purchase.

    AJM

"The only way to really appreciate the world is to see it blown sky
high!"- Soundgarden "Black Hole Sun"

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Al K » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> The way I see it....The New Amiga is in no means going to be a
> Revolution. I just don't see it being able to gain enough ground.

Well, back in 1985, was the A1000, later A500+A2000 being recognized as
a 'Revolution'? Or just as a 'games machine'? Help me to remember.

And did it get support from big players at all (besides ABasic made by
that nowadays WIN (not Me!) Corp? M$, you know ;-)?

And advertising against other PeeCee makers, besides the immense costs,
would not lead them (AI) the way they planned, IMHO. They'd rather compete
against f.e. WebTV/AOL TV, Palm OS, Thinkpads and like (small, transportable
computers), and between those also somehow vs Linux/Win/Mac/Be etc... (not
to forget the so called Internet and/or Home Appliances, cell phones,
tbc..).

That'd be more the way they want to go, I think, just don't know yet. But
don't get me wrong, I hope they'll bring out a block bustin' OS again.

And with that Elate it may *all* be possible (btw, as Elate is an 'object
based' OS, you remember that g2k/Amiga summer announcement - AmigaObjects,
just curios.. hmm).

Maybe we'll know if it *was* a 'Revolution' 15 years from now (hope so,
maybe a little bit early(ier)...)

That's just the way I see it.., no warranties.

Call me Al

Quote:>     AJM

> "The only way to really appreciate the world is to see it blown sky
> high!"- Soundgarden "Black Hole Sun"

"I Believe" - LRP - REM - 1985/86

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Matt Helgese » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> The way I see it....The New Amiga is in no means going to be a
> Revolution. I just don't see it being able to gain enough ground.
> (Anyone know current user estimates) I am also sure that it will be a
> better seller in Europe then in the US. Our European Brothers have it
> better there then we do here in the states. IMHO. I think that the only
> way for it to gain the support is through the Partnerships with
> prominent company's. IE AMD, Intel, Micron. Also HP and Mitsubishi. If
> they could somehow become a part of this. They would have there
> prominence and be able to propell the Amiga into a larger sector. Also I
> think if Advertising against Apple and IBM-Esque machines then people
> feed up with those machines would be more inclined to purchase.

    I don't think Amiga has a chance of competing as a mainstream computer,
at least not at first. However, aside from the current Amiga public, it will
also attract attention from Linux and Be public, as well as UAE users and
other people who left the platform. Tao is a good choice as it will (if I
understand the code-morphing correctly) be able to run windows apps
natively. That gives you lots of software, and will get some people who only
use Windows because of the software available.
 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Aaron July Motoll » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




> > {Snip}
> And advertising against other PeeCee makers, besides the immense costs,
> would not lead them (AI) the way they planned, IMHO. They'd rather compete
> against f.e. WebTV/AOL TV, Palm OS, Thinkpads and like (small, transportable
> computers), and between those also somehow vs Linux/Win/Mac/Be etc... (not
> to forget the so called Internet and/or Home Appliances, cell phones,
> tbc..).

> That'd be more the way they want to go, I think, just don't know yet. But
> don't get me wrong, I hope they'll bring out a block bustin' OS again.

> And with that Elate it may *all* be possible (btw, as Elate is an 'object
> based' OS, you remember that g2k/Amiga summer announcement - AmigaObjects,
> just curios.. hmm).

> Maybe we'll know if it *was* a 'Revolution' 15 years from now (hope so,
> maybe a little bit early(ier)...)

> That's just the way I see it.., no warranties.

Ok Al. Well This is quite true in itself. But isn't funny the way that
the Amiga has been passed around. Maybe by Q1 2003 we will be better
able to see if indeed it is a Revolution. It is funny the way that
computers and users are headed. Eventually the computer will be apart of
us completly. Maybe The new Amiga will be the Amiga in the form of a
Palm Top Computer. I think that would most certainly gain ground. I do
not see the Amiga as a * console. That would most certainly not do.

  AJM
"What you think it's funny! Do you see me laughing!" Hicks FFIII

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Al K » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





> > > {Snip}
> > > (Snip too..)

> > Maybe we'll know if it *was* a 'Revolution' 15 years from now (hope so,
> > maybe a little bit early(ier)...)

> > That's just the way I see it.., no warranties.

> Ok Al. Well This is quite true in itself. But isn't funny the way that
> the Amiga has been passed around. Maybe by Q1 2003 we will be better
> able to see if indeed it is a Revolution. It is funny the way that
> computers and users are headed. Eventually the computer will be apart of
> us completly. Maybe The new Amiga will be the Amiga in the form of a
> Palm Top Computer. I think that would most certainly gain ground. I do
> not see the Amiga as a * console. That would most certainly not do.

>   AJM
> "What you think it's funny! Do you see me laughing!" Hicks FFIII

Hey Aaron. Fact is: As I bought my 1st A500 back in 1988, friends asked
me 'Hey, what you wanna use it for? playing games?...' and laughed. I
didn't take that to serious, as I don't take anything *to* serious
(and at school we were using STs.., yeah Atari!).

That is what happenes with revolutions when they are starting.

BTW, the first real game i owned (bought ;-) was, i think Elite or maybe
some platform thingy, don't know anymore, in late 1989! Until then i used
the machine for programming, tried to update the desktop, as possible w/ a
floppy
based system, etc..., basically just used it and had fun.

But I don't want just another 'Multimedia OS' nowadays, Amiga defined that
before the word was known, to let the Amiga again pass all the others Amiga
Corp. needs to pull out something more.
I'am looking forward for that (Funny if I could control my new hiFi rack via
an Amiga palm top). Amiga was *not ever* about being a '* console' and
hopefully never will be.

call me Al

"Get Up" - Green - REM - 1989

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Lion » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




Quote:>    I don't think Amiga has a chance of competing as a mainstream computer,
>at least not at first. However, aside from the current Amiga public, it will
>also attract attention from Linux and Be public, as well as UAE users and
>other people who left the platform. Tao is a good choice as it will (if I
>understand the code-morphing correctly) be able to run windows apps
>natively. That gives you lots of software, and will get some people who only
>use Windows because of the software available.

If it runs Windoze apps natively, then there is exactly 0 incentive for
anybody to write native apps. "Revolution" over before it starts. Yay.

--
Lion

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Robb Perron » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Quote:

> "The only way to really appreciate the world is to see it blown sky
> high!"- Soundgarden "Black Hole Sun"

Sorry, not to be picky, but that quote isn't from "Black Hole Sun". I
can't remember, right now, which it is from...I"ll get back on that
when I remember.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Lyndo » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


I don't think even die-hard Amigans are expecting the Amiga
revolution to be PC killing.

What it will be hopefully, is an alternative to the PC/Mac
solution. Something that will give you all the computing power
without all the dead weight.

I think looking back to history is a mistake because so much has
changed. We can't look back to the days of the A1000 and say it's
going to happen again.

I don't really care if the AmigaNG is more of a hobbyist or niche
computer, as long as AI make enough bucks to keep developing. Using
a modern PC is like driving a Ferrari with the hand brake on. I know
that computers don't have to be so bogged down, OS 3.X is proof.

If on the other hand AI/Tao do a good job, it's possible they could
be lucky enough to have such a forward-thinking design that
Amiga will catch on and eventually take it's rightful place in the
heart of the computing world.

Wait and see.

cheers

Lyndon Hill

--
A1200T/603/040+BVision+ZIP+Flyer

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Coz » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





> >> The way I see it....The New Amiga is in no means going to be a
> >> Revolution. I just don't see it being able to gain enough ground.

> >Well, back in 1985, was the A1000, later A500+A2000 being recognized as
> >a 'Revolution'? Or just as a 'games machine'? Help me to remember.

>   There was something of a big deal made about it just before it first came
> out. BYTE featured the A1000 on its cover and really raved about the
> revolution that it should bring. I think Warhol and Blondie might have been
> at some big premier party for it. However, once it was released and did
> turn out to be better than everything else the big ones got scared and
> helped, along with a tremendous amount of help from CBM, to try to make it
> disappear.

More paranoia. Why do a damned thing to kill the Amiga when it was owned
by Commodore?

Quote:> >And did it get support from big players at all (besides ABasic made by
> >that nowadays WIN (not Me!) Corp? M$, you know ;-)?

Commodore helped*that up as well. MS wasn't exactly making a
fortune from it anyways and dealing with CBM would drive anyone away. It
was a port of the same BASIC the Mac was using. I frequently ran
programs for the Mac with just a little graphics tweaking.

Just a side note: A friend of mine owned the rights to the name Mac
BASIC and was always hoping Apple would*up and use the term. His
name came from before there was such a computer as the Macintosh.

Quote:> Borland and a few other companies had taken out a few ads making a big
> deal about it but they, or Borland at least, dropped out just before the
> A1000 release.

After the release. I never did get a convincing explanation of why Phil
Kahn abandoned the Amiga early on. I was drooling over the idea of Turbo
Pascal. That really HURT I think because Turbo Pascal did a lot for the
PC when it came to user programming for the PC. <whimper>

Quote:> Not that the MAC didn't get a bigger deal made over it upon its release
> though.

It didn't hurt that the Mac came out a year earlier in '84. There was
still room for competition with IBM which was the main player in those
days. The Amiga came in on the tail end of that period and was
submarined by CBM. If CBM had any sense the Amiga would be still around
and still considered a good alternative to Wintel and the Mac.

Coz
--
"You're my little cupcake!"
        Saddam Hussein to Satan in
        South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by lbau » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Quote:>>   There was something of a big deal made about it just before it first
>>   came
>> out. BYTE featured the A1000 on its cover and really raved about the
>> revolution that it should bring. I think Warhol and Blondie might have
>> been at some big premier party for it. However, once it was released
>> and did turn out to be better than everything else the big ones got
>> scared and helped, along with a tremendous amount of help from CBM, to
>> try to make it disappear.

>More paranoia. Why do a damned thing to kill the Amiga when it was owned
>by Commodore?

  I could swear that even a few interviews with CBM engineers had they talking
about a few dirty things that actually did really happen. I'm not saying it was
a vast, huge * but there actually did seem to be a few dirty doings
that did go on. It's hardly unheard for some *to go on whever there is
competition.

Quote:

>> >And did it get support from big players at all (besides ABasic made
>> >by that nowadays WIN (not Me!) Corp? M$, you know ;-)?

>Commodore helped*that up as well. MS wasn't exactly making a
>fortune from it anyways and dealing with CBM would drive anyone away. It
>was a port of the same BASIC the Mac was using. I frequently ran
>programs for the Mac with just a little graphics tweaking.

  Wasn't ABasiC the non-Microsoft one? Anyway, I don't think MS breaking 32bit
and stuff was any part of trying to sink the Amiga. If the other person implied
that I didn't mean to imply that I agreed.

Quote:>> Borland and a few other companies had taken out a few ads making a big
>> deal about it but they, or Borland at least, dropped out just before
>> the A1000 release.

>After the release. I never did get a convincing explanation of why Phil
>Kahn abandoned the Amiga early on. I was drooling over the idea of Turbo
>Pascal. That really HURT I think because Turbo Pascal did a lot for the
>PC when it came to user programming for the PC. <whimper>
>> Not that the MAC didn't get a bigger deal made over it upon its
>> release though.

>It didn't hurt that the Mac came out a year earlier in '84. There was
>still room for competition with IBM which was the main player in those
>days. The Amiga came in on the tail end of that period and was
>submarined by CBM. If CBM had any sense the Amiga would be still around
>and still considered a good alternative to Wintel and the Mac.

 True. CBM management simply was a disgrace. Heck, if Atari had had any sense
it could have too. Jay Miner approached Atari about producing something like an
Amiga early enough on that it would have beaten the MAC to the market. Atari
told him that it was too soon and tht they wanted to make some more money
milking out the 8bit line.
 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Aaron July Motoll » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






> > > > {Snip}
> > > > (Snip too..)

        (Snip tree...)

Quote:> I'am looking forward for that (Funny if I could control my new hiFi rack via
> an Amiga palm top). Amiga was *not ever* about being a '* console' and
> hopefully never will be.

> call me Al

> "Get Up" - Green - REM - 1989

Hey I was not disagreeing with you. Amiga is defintely not about *
Consoles. That is what Sony is for. Anyway....I agree with you. This is
my sentiments exactly!

   AJM
"The one and only Rando of the West" The Saint "Val Kilmer"

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Aaron July Motoll » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> > "The only way to really appreciate the world is to see it blown sky
> > high!"- Soundgarden "Black Hole Sun"

> Sorry, not to be picky, but that quote isn't from "Black Hole Sun". I
> can't remember, right now, which it is from...I"ll get back on that
> when I remember.

Hey that is ok. You are correct! It is from Blow up the Outside world
sung by Soundgarden. That is a awesome band! It is a shame that they had
to break-up! Terrible! But hey thanks for pointing that out!

   AJM
"New York, Paris, London, Munich! Everybody's talking about Pop Tarts"
The Next 24hours

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Rick Jone » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> I don't really care if the AmigaNG is more of a hobbyist or niche
> computer, as long as AI make enough bucks to keep developing. Using
> a modern PC is like driving a Ferrari with the hand brake on.

   Or my analogy - Using a Windows machine is like trying to fly the
Concorde on one engine.

--
                Rick Jones
        Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me

IBM - Invented By Morons

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by justi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> A minor historical note here... Color TV was around and selling in the
> US in the 1950's though the BIG jump in sales for these set really
> started around 1960 when the migration from black and white to color TV
> shows really got going. I bought my first color TV in 1969 and
> considered myself a Johnny-come-lately.  8^)

Come on, like I didn't know that... it was a JOKE, and yes I know I am
not very funny.

Quote:> > and look what's left to invent today. The only thing you
> > can do is grow faster and bigger, like MS (well...faster...?) and Intel.
> > 'Faster and Bigger' are really a very conservative way of thinking about
> > progression and evolution.

> You are kidding, right? This reminds me of the US Patent Office officer
> in the late 1890's who recommended that the Patent Office shut down
> because "everything has already been invented".

I don't say things shouldn't be fast, I just mean that something fast is
not necessarily good. Far from revolutionary.
For things to become faster and bigger all that is needed is time. for
something revolutionary to come just one moment is needed, it doesn't
need a certain point in time, or a certain time to pass it' just there
while a moment ago it wasn't... if you understand what I mean.

Justin

 
 
 

Why the 'New Amiga' will not be the 'Revolution'

Post by Coz » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




> > A minor historical note here... Color TV was around and selling in the
> > US in the 1950's though the BIG jump in sales for these set really
> > started around 1960 when the migration from black and white to color TV
> > shows really got going. I bought my first color TV in 1969 and
> > considered myself a Johnny-come-lately.  8^)

> Come on, like I didn't know that... it was a JOKE, and yes I know I am
> not very funny.

I didn't know how young you were. A lot of kids think history started
about when Madonna had her first hit song.

When ya joke the smiley is sometimes your only way of letting people
know you are kidding.

Quote:> > > and look what's left to invent today. The only thing you
> > > can do is grow faster and bigger, like MS (well...faster...?) and Intel.
> > > 'Faster and Bigger' are really a very conservative way of thinking about
> > > progression and evolution.

> > You are kidding, right? This reminds me of the US Patent Office officer
> > in the late 1890's who recommended that the Patent Office shut down
> > because "everything has already been invented".

I meant to comment in my earlier post that "'Faster and Bigger' are
really a very conservative way of thinking about progression and
evolution." is actually an acute observation. It can be easily
demonstrated on my A4000/030 that the machine is -slicker- than PCs of
the same generation (1992) and I still startled the daylights out of a
knowledgeable PC guy with what I could do on a pokey 25 MHz a mere 4
years ago.

Quote:

> I don't say things shouldn't be fast, I just mean that something fast is
> not necessarily good. Far from revolutionary.
> For things to become faster and bigger all that is needed is time. for
> something revolutionary to come just one moment is needed, it doesn't
> need a certain point in time, or a certain time to pass it' just there
> while a moment ago it wasn't... if you understand what I mean.

> Justin

Coz
--
"You're my little cupcake!"
        Saddam Hussein to Satan in
        South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut
 
 
 

1. SAS/C 6.55 won't compile a 'new.h' example, why?

Greetings, I'm attempting to learn C++ using SAS/C 6.55. The book I have
provides the following example:

#include <iostream.h>
#include <new.h>

const Chunk = 16;
class Foo { public: int val; Foo() { val = 0; } };

char *buf = new char[ sizeof(Foo) * Chunk ];

int main(void)
{
        Foo *pb = new (buf) Foo[ Chunk ];

        if((char*)pb == buf)
                cout << "Operator new worked!: pb: " << pb
                << " buf: " << (void*)buf << endl;
        return 0;

When I attempt to compile this with SAS/C 6.55 I get the following
results:

====================
 Foo *pb = new (buf) Foo[ Chunk ];
                                ^
p150.cxx 11 Error 1387: No match for call to function or overloaded
operator.
                    Called with argument types:
                       ( unsigned int ,  char * )

                    None of the following matched:
                     void *operator new(unsigned int )

p150.cxx 11 Error 1607: 'operator new' must return a ( void *) not a (
signed int ).
                     void *operator new(unsigned int )

Is this because the code in the book is non-standard? Is the book using a
feature that is not portable across all compilers? Is it a typographical
error in the book? Are there features SAS/C does not support? I vaguely
remember someone mention C++ features that SAS/C did not support. Does
anyone remember what this are?

Thank you for any insight you can give me. Please reply via email as well
as posting to the newsgroup but only until May 4th. This account disappears
after that date.

Darrell

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4. Disk and video interface questions on 1108/9

5. A1000 displays '''''''''''''... when booted up

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9. I'm sure it's a FAQ : Why B&W for Galaga '92?

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