Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Ian Kenne » Sun, 21 May 1995 04:00:00



All this speculation is pointless. Even if Escom starts making Amiga
again, they'll still be the same obsolete machines.

The ONLY thing the Amiga has that I still consider worth anything is
the operating system. Amiga DOS is still the finest personal computer
OS, IMHO.

The hardware is woefully obsolete. The max non-interlaced display is a
joke. And if you stick it in any of the 8bit modes it is a complete
DOG, as I learend with my A1200 (030/50 4MB fast ram).

The Amiga needs a complete hardware facelift. Escom MUST be commited
to doing this. If they are not then the machine will die out (again).

Escom also needs to activly court the major software publishers for
support, or really support the currrent Amiga software vendors.

From a practical point a new Amiga needs:

- A better display. Fast. 1280x1024. 256 color MINIMUM.
  more at lower resolutions. 3D acceleration is comming to the Intel
  world, may the Amiga could beat them to it in a big way.
- New sound. 8bit is out.  16bit. 8 voices. Wave table synth optional.

  The current amigas kind of have this(wave table synth) with MOD    
  files. Maybe via a killer DSP that could run its own OS and provide
  killer modem as well as sound all at the same time.
- Robust network client. PPP, ethernet, IPX/SPX, TCP/IP and clients
  for  Netware and WindowsNT VRedir. Peer to peer sharing. Device
  independant, of course.
- Clean NTSC/PAL video out for the video junkies.
- SCSI. Non of this IDE shit, except in the extreme low end.
- PCI bus so I can use common;y available add-ons.

On the software end:
- Virtual memory
- An API specifcally designed for games. Win95 will be getting this  
  with the Game SDK. Provide the speed games need with the OS support
  game developers hate to code (networking, sound) so they can
  concentrate on creating a good game and not worry about things like
  disk IO.

And for programmers : PUBLISH THE GOD-DAMN REFRENCE MANUALS! I don't
want to have to join some developers program from Escom just to get
refrence material. That's what really pissed me off about ADOS 3.X, no
docs available to the general hobbiest.

 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Darren Evela » Mon, 22 May 1995 04:00:00


: All this speculation is pointless. Even if Escom starts making Amiga
: again, they'll still be the same obsolete machines.

Obsolete machines that are in high demand.

: The ONLY thing the Amiga has that I still consider worth anything is
: the operating system. Amiga DOS is still the finest personal computer
: OS, IMHO.

Some hardware features of the amiga chipset are still excellent: the
ability to have pull down "screens", hardware sprites, copper, etc...
Intel seems to think that its best to have *ONE* super fast chip in the
system.  However I think the co-processor approach is best: multiple
processors each performing specific tasks to off load the "main cpu".

: The hardware is woefully obsolete. The max non-interlaced display is a
: joke. And if you stick it in any of the 8bit modes it is a complete
: DOG, as I learend with my A1200 (030/50 4MB fast ram).

I agree in the higher resultions/colour depths, the ECS/AGA chipset is
slow.  But it wasn't really intended for high resolutions.  Through a
graphics card in your system if you have some zorro slots.

: The Amiga needs a complete hardware facelift. Escom MUST be commited
: to doing this. If they are not then the machine will die out (again).

Agreed--but not right away.  There is seill demand for the A4000 and
cheap A1200 (maybe CD32?)

: Escom also needs to activly court the major software publishers for
: support, or really support the currrent Amiga software vendors.

True.

: From a practical point a new Amiga needs:

: - A better display. Fast. 1280x1024. 256 color MINIMUM.
:   more at lower resolutions. 3D acceleration is comming to the Intel
:   world, may the Amiga could beat them to it in a big way.
: - New sound. 8bit is out.  16bit. 8 voices. Wave table synth optional.

This is already on the drawing board with AAA/HOMBRE.

:   The current amigas kind of have this(wave table synth) with MOD    
:   files. Maybe via a killer DSP that could run its own OS and provide
:   killer modem as well as sound all at the same time.
: - Robust network client. PPP, ethernet, IPX/SPX, TCP/IP and clients
:   for  Netware and WindowsNT VRedir. Peer to peer sharing. Device
:   independant, of course.
: - Clean NTSC/PAL video out for the video junkies.
: - SCSI. Non of this IDE shit, except in the extreme low end.
: - PCI bus so I can use common;y available add-ons.

Most of this was already being planned...

: On the software end:
: - Virtual memory

Not necessary. I'd make it an "Option".  Virtual memory just slows the
system down.  The Amiga OS doesn't need gobs of RAM.

: - An API specifcally designed for games. Win95 will be getting this  
:   with the Game SDK. Provide the speed games need with the OS support
:   game developers hate to code (networking, sound) so they can
:   concentrate on creating a good game and not worry about things like
:   disk IO.

Would be nice.

: And for programmers : PUBLISH THE GOD-DAMN REFRENCE MANUALS! I don't
: want to have to join some developers program from Escom just to get
: refrence material. That's what really pissed me off about ADOS 3.X, no
: docs available to the general hobbiest.

Would be nice...

Darren

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|"Don't jump on the bandwagon, because it's headed over the cliff."      |
+------------------+------------------+---------+------------------------+
| WWW: http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/~darren | Amiga 3000/040, CD32+FMV, 486/66 |
| IRC: HammerD                        | Emplant, GVP Spectrum, 3.1 roms  |

+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------+

 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Andre Weissfl » Mon, 22 May 1995 04:00:00


[...]

Quote:

> On the software end:
[...]
> - An API specifcally designed for games. Win95 will be getting this  
>   with the Game SDK. Provide the speed games need with the OS support
>   game developers hate to code (networking, sound) so they can
>   concentrate on creating a good game and not worry about things like
>   disk IO.

??? Sorry, I don't get your point here. The WinG library you're
talking about is simply a brute force way to disable Windows'
brain dead bitmap handling and allow the games to access the
display memory more or less directly.

There is absolutely no need for this on AmigaOS.

For the networking and sound: there's Envoy, the serial.device and
the audio.device. Hmm, and there's also loads of stuff for disk
i/o in AmigaOS, isn't it?

All you need to do is to let the system alive and get the needed
cpu cycles in a legal way.

Quote:> And for programmers : PUBLISH THE GOD-DAMN REFRENCE MANUALS! I don't
> want to have to join some developers program from Escom just to get
> refrence material. That's what really pissed me off about ADOS 3.X, no
> docs available to the general hobbiest.

The Reference Manuals are available in every book store. The 3.x
developers update disks are available from eg. Hirsch & Wolf. For
everybody, not only 'registered developers'. The prices are ok,
compared to official developer material for the Mac or Windows.

-Floh.

 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Ian Kenne » Tue, 23 May 1995 04:00:00



>??? Sorry, I don't get your point here. The WinG library you're
>talking about is simply a brute force way to disable Windows'
>brain dead bitmap handling and allow the games to access the
>display memory more or less directly.
>There is absolutely no need for this on AmigaOS.

I'm not talking about WinG. I'm talking about the
GAME SDK for Win32. This is NOT WinG. It gives right
to the hardware killer performance while under Windows.
However, it does kill GDI, the windows GUI manager but leaves
networking and 32bit meory stuff intact. It essentially shuts down the
Win95 GUI but leaves everything else running. It is also device
independant.

The end result is speed, with support for netwokring and sound mixing
avaialbe. It's pretty cool and it's pretty damn fast.

Quote:>The Reference Manuals are available in every book store. The 3.x
>developers update disks are available from eg. Hirsch & Wolf. For
>everybody, not only 'registered developers'. The prices are ok,
>compared to official developer material for the Mac or Windows.

CBM never published the official reference guides for 3.X. I'm sure
you got some 3rd party books over in Euorpe, but all we got here in
the US were bad translations.
 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Thomas Boerk » Tue, 23 May 1995 04:00:00


Hi, Ian!

 > The ONLY thing the Amiga has that I still consider worth anything is the
 > operating system. Amiga DOS is still the finest personal computer OS,
 > IMHO.

Right.

 > The hardware is woefully obsolete. The max non-interlaced display is a
 > joke. And if you stick it in any of the 8bit modes it is a complete
 > DOG, as I learend with my A1200 (030/50 4MB fast ram).

OK, the A1200 is a LOW-END *cheap* machine. In the high-end Amigas,
you can plug in a CV64 and everything will be OK for you, until
we have new designed Amigas.

[...]

 > And for programmers : PUBLISH THE GOD-DAMN REFRENCE MANUALS! I don't
 > want to have to join some developers program from Escom just to get
 > refrence material. That's what really pissed me off about ADOS 3.X, no
 > docs available to the general hobbiest.

The Native Developers Kit 3.1 *is* available.

Bye,
    Thomas

 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Andre Weissfl » Thu, 25 May 1995 04:00:00




> >??? Sorry, I don't get your point here. The WinG library you're
> >talking about is simply a brute force way to disable Windows'
> >brain dead bitmap handling and allow the games to access the
> >display memory more or less directly.
> >There is absolutely no need for this on AmigaOS.

> I'm not talking about WinG. I'm talking about the
> GAME SDK for Win32. This is NOT WinG. It gives right
> to the hardware killer performance while under Windows.
> However, it does kill GDI, the windows GUI manager but leaves
> networking and 32bit meory stuff intact. It essentially shuts down the
> Win95 GUI but leaves everything else running. It is also device
> independant.

That's new to me. Is this an 'Official Microsoft Product(TM)'?
The last thing I read was that they didn't even get WinG 2.0 ready
for the Win95 release. Maybe all that game stuff is the true reason for
the August'95 deadline.

I hope they finally managed it to have some sort of elapsed time
counter which has a greater accuracy then 18.2 ticks/sec without hand
hacking the timer interrupt...

And I still say, there's no need for something like that GameSDK
in AmigaOS. The programmer already has access to all abstraction
layers in the system and can go to lower levels as long as it's done
in a friendly way.

Quote:> The end result is speed, with support for netwokring and sound mixing
> avaialbe. It's pretty cool and it's pretty damn fast.

Well, everything is pretty damn fast if you throw a P90 at it...

Quote:> >The Reference Manuals are available in every book store. The 3.x
> >developers update disks are available from eg. Hirsch & Wolf. For
> >everybody, not only 'registered developers'. The prices are ok,
> >compared to official developer material for the Mac or Windows.

> CBM never published the official reference guides for 3.X. I'm sure
> you got some 3rd party books over in Euorpe, but all we got here in
> the US were bad translations.

Yes and no... the last official books were the 2.x Reference Manuals.
The 3.x stuff was published as a 5 disks set and meant as an
update to the printed 2.x stuff.

-Floh.


...// Andre Weissflog, Gemeindestr.25, 08340 Bermsgruen, Germany...
\\// 90% of everything is *(Sturgeon's Law) ..................
=\\=======================================================boing!=

 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Ian Kenne » Tue, 30 May 1995 04:00:00



>The Native Developers Kit 3.1 *is* available.

Where? When I was still interested in Amiga programming I looked high
and low. No book store could get it for me. None. It was not
published. The local Amiga stores (the few there there were) could not
find it for me.

As to the video issue. The video cards available for the Amig tend to
be pretty cool, but over priced. This is not the Amigas fault, it is a
simple supply-demand and volume issue.

If the new Amigas have PCI busses (please!) this will not be an issue.

Later,
Ian.

/**************************************************************/

/ My Swell BBS : 206-885-9441 |                                     /
/**************************************************************/

 
 
 

Escom this and Escom that... blah blahblah

Post by Ra » Tue, 06 Jun 1995 04:00:00




>>The Native Developers Kit 3.1 *is* available.

>Where? When I was still interested in Amiga programming I looked high
>and low. No book store could get it for me. None. It was not
>published. The local Amiga stores (the few there there were) could not
>find it for me.

>As to the video issue. The video cards available for the Amig tend to
>be pretty cool, but over priced. This is not the Amigas fault, it is a
>simple supply-demand and volume issue.

>If the new Amigas have PCI busses (please!) this will not be an issue.

    The Native Developers Kit is not a book, nor does it contain one, so I'm
not suprised that your book store couldn't get it.  When I got my copy it was
on a German ftp site.  Unfortunately I don't remember which one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Richard Deken                   Graduate student in electrical engineering
 PGP public key available            Tennessee Technological University

 
 
 

1. Escom are gods(Spot the Escom ad)

This morning through the post with my local newspaper(This is in the East  
Midlands), what do I find? A glossy full page brouchure for Escom's PCs. Not  
ONCE did I get anything from Commodore like this, Escom have had the Amiga for  
ten minutes and I get this. The Amiga is in very safe hands I feel.

--

      __                                                          _____
     ///     NeXT/Amiga guy,NeXTMail loved,BucketHed on IRC      | N e |\
__  ///                3DO/SNES/Jaguar addict                    | X T | |
\\\///   Because life is too short to use third rate computers   |_____| |
 \XX/         Now playing: CycleDel.mod - great mod file          \_____\|

2. Bad DLL Files

3. Escom's rebirth: Escom 2001

4. What makes a robot a robot?

5. THE BEST THING THAT C blah blah blah death to

6. ATARI CLASSICS CAMPAIGN: LAST WEEK! (Re-send)

7. THE BEST THING THAT C blah blah blah death to truncated

8. restore help, please

9. All HAIL Bill GATES .... Blah, Blah, Blah.

10. How can you advocate blah blah..

11. Taligent, blah, blah

12. A4000/040/14/210 blah blah