Power PC chip

Power PC chip

Post by Keith Christoph » Sat, 24 Jul 1993 03:39:25



What is the possibility of getting an Amiga based on one ? It seems like a hot chip.

Keith

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Christoph Feck I » Sat, 24 Jul 1993 22:40:58



> What is the possibility of getting an Amiga based on one ? It seems like a hot chip.

It would be good, if Commodore could get the same chip, that
Apple gets - the one with hardware 680x0 code execution.

3k// Christoph `Pepo' Feck, TowerSystems
\X/ Waiting for RTG...

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Scott Ashdo » Sat, 24 Jul 1993 23:22:51




>> What is the possibility of getting an Amiga based on one ? It seems like a hot chip.

>It would be good, if Commodore could get the same chip, that
>Apple gets - the one with hardware 680x0 code execution.

It's my understanding that the 680x0 translation is to be done by a custom gate
array. As for Commodore getting it, PC Week says that Apple's even decided not
to provide it to new-found partner IBM, in order to maintain a competetive
advantage and keep their machines somewhat unique.
--
 Scott Ashdown        |  Carleton University Transputer Lab


 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Dave Schreib » Sun, 25 Jul 1993 00:58:49





>>> What is the possibility of getting an Amiga based on one ? It seems like a hot chip.

>>It would be good, if Commodore could get the same chip, that
>>Apple gets - the one with hardware 680x0 code execution.

>It's my understanding that the 680x0 translation is to be done by a custom gate
>array. As for Commodore getting it, PC Week says that Apple's even decided not
>advantage and keep their machines somewhat unique.
>to provide it to new-found partner IBM, in order to maintain a competetive

A couple of points:
1)  All 68000 emulation done by the PowerPC in the PowerPC Macs will be done
    in software only.  There's no special support for the 68000 in the PPC
    chip, nor will Apple be using any other sort of hardware assist.
2)  Apple and IBM developed the PPC jointly (based on the _IBM_ Power series
    processor);  Apple has neither the desire nor the right to keep IBM from
    using the PPC.  Note that the agreement that Motorola and IBM came to
    re. PPC manufacturing gives Motorola the sole right to manufacture the
    first PPC processor (the MPC601), but IBM will be able to manufacture
    future PPC processors (the 603, 604 and 620, for starters);  this may be
    what you were thinking of.

> Scott Ashdown        |  Carleton University Transputer Lab


--

"While modern technology has given people powerful new communication tools,
it apparently can do nothing to alter the fact that many people seem to have
nothing useful to say." - Chris Oakes, quoting Lee Gomes re. the Internet
 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Andrew L. Hansfo » Sun, 25 Jul 1993 00:03:29


davids> 2) Apple and IBM
davids> developed the PPC jointly (based on the _IBM_ Power series
davids> processor); Apple has neither the desire nor the right to keep
davids> IBM from using the PPC.  Note that the agreement that Motorola
davids> and IBM came to re. PPC manufacturing gives Motorola the sole
davids> right to manufacture the first PPC processor (the MPC601), but
davids> IBM will be able to manufacture future PPC processors (the
davids> 603, 604 and 620, for starters); this may be what you were
davids> thinking of.

Motorola is in on the PowerPC development also.  Additionally the 601
will be produced by IBM and the future versions will be produced by
Motorola.  (this may have to do with the technology transfer from IBM
to Motorola ) I do not know if IBM will still be able to produce the
PowerPC past the 601 or if Motorola has exclusive rights.



-- Andrew Hansford

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Evan Torr » Sun, 25 Jul 1993 07:44:41



>>It's my understanding that the 680x0 translation is to be done by a custom gate
>>array.

  You mean a ROM ?? :-)

Quote:>A couple of points:
>1)  All 68000 emulation done by the PowerPC in the PowerPC Macs will be done
>    in software only.  There's no special support for the 68000 in the PPC
>    chip, nor will Apple be using any other sort of hardware assist.

  This is correct.  Apple will put their 68K emulator in ROM for the
PowerPC machines.  This is the extent of having custom hardware.

Quote:>    using the PPC.  Note that the agreement that Motorola and IBM came to
>    re. PPC manufacturing gives Motorola the sole right to manufacture the
>    first PPC processor (the MPC601), but IBM will be able to manufacture
>    future PPC processors (the 603, 604 and 620, for starters);

  It's the other way round.  IBM is making all the 601's, but Motorola will
be co-manufacturing the 603/604/620.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can
 believe in everlasting punishment" - Bertrand Russell.

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Allan Dunc » Mon, 26 Jul 1993 22:49:30





> davids> 2) Apple and IBM
> davids> developed the PPC jointly (based on the _IBM_ Power series
> davids> processor); Apple has neither the desire nor the right to keep
> davids> IBM from using the PPC.  Note that the agreement that Motorola
> davids> and IBM came to re. PPC manufacturing gives Motorola the sole
> davids> right to manufacture the first PPC processor (the MPC601), but
> davids> IBM will be able to manufacture future PPC processors (the
> davids> 603, 604 and 620, for starters); this may be what you were
> davids> thinking of.

> Motorola is in on the PowerPC development also.  Additionally the 601
> will be produced by IBM and the future versions will be produced by
> Motorola.  (this may have to do with the technology transfer from IBM
> to Motorola ) I do not know if IBM will still be able to produce the
> PowerPC past the 601 or if Motorola has exclusive rights.

It has mainly to do with not keeping all your eggs in one basket, like
the Japanese memory makers did.  One fire and you're in trouble.



Fax    253 6664         UUCP     {uunet,hplabs,ukc}!munnari!trl.oz.au!a.duncan
    Telecom Research Labs, PO Box 249, Clayton, Victoria, 3168, Australia.

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Scott Ashdo » Tue, 27 Jul 1993 04:51:23


Ooops! That's what I get for quoting ancient PC Week issues and
not reading the latest BYTE...

The emulation's in ROM, of course.
--
 Scott Ashdown        |  Carleton University Transputer Lab


 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Dave Hayn » Sat, 14 Aug 1993 05:30:15




>> What is the possibility of getting an Amiga based on one ? It seems like a hot chip.
>It would be good, if Commodore could get the same chip, that
>Apple gets - the one with hardware 680x0 code execution.

Apple is using a plain old everyday PowerPC 601 chip in their first PowerPC
systems.  Neither it, nor any other announced PowerPC products have any
hardware emulation of the 680x0 instruction set.  Apple has announced that
PowerPC systems will run Mac binaries, but that's done via a soft 680x0
emulator.  With enough of the Mac OS routines recoded as native PowerPC
routines, the performance should be decent.  Don't compare it to a PClone
emulator.  A good portion of the slowdown in PClone emulators isn't based
on the need to emulate an 80x86 processor, but rather, the need to emulate
the PC's hardware registers at the bit level.  Since nothing in the Mac
OS should require any such bit-level emulation (in theory -- I'm sure Jim
Drew's gang could tell something about this in practice), Mac program
should run at full Mac II speed, at least, on PowerPCs.
--
Dave Haynie                |    Commodore Technology    | Ki No Kawa Ryu Aikido

{BIX,Portal}: hazy         | "The Crew That Never Rests"|    to be painless"

  "I will give the secrets you request, and you will be the one to sacrifice"
                                        -toad the wet sprocket

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Stephen John McGer » Sun, 15 Aug 1993 09:50:02



Quote:>Apple is using a plain old everyday PowerPC 601 chip in their first PowerPC
>systems.  Neither it, nor any other announced PowerPC products have any
>hardware emulation of the 680x0 instruction set.  

However, I think it is only fair to point out that the
instruction set of the PowerPC 601 is quite well suited to
running emulations of other processors. It has the ability
to think big-endian or little-endian, and (I am led to
believe) has a wide range of bit manipulation instuctions.

I would hazzard to say that emulation of other processors
was a strong design consideration.

Quote:>Apple has announced that
>PowerPC systems will run Mac binaries, but that's done via a soft 680x0
>emulator.  With enough of the Mac OS routines recoded as native PowerPC
>routines, the performance should be decent.  

I am told they have about 80% of the OS native 601
code. I suppose it depends a lot on _which_ 80% of the
OS is native. However, it is expected that the performance
will be similar to that of a 68040 Mac running at 25 Mhz,
while running the emulation on an 'average' application..
Again, sweeping statements, but you get the idea.

>--
>Dave Haynie                |    Commodore Technology    | Ki No Kawa Ryu Aikido

>{BIX,Portal}: hazy         | "The Crew That Never Rests"|    to be painless"

So is the "crew" thinking about porting things these days?
A 601 Amiga before mid-January would not only take a _lot_
of wind out of Apple's sails, it would surprise the whole
industry. And it's about time people had good reason to look
on the Amiga with a certain amount of awe, just like waaaay
back..

Stephen.

.........................................................................
: / T | /  Stephen John McGerty (C.Sci)  "Theory must never   Amiga  // :

:.......................................................................:

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Roy Pa » Wed, 18 Aug 1993 04:24:00


Quote:>Apple has announced that PowerPC systems will run Mac binaries, but that's
>done via a soft 680x0 emulator.

Does Commodore have something similar to this?  hint;hint   :)


First year Computer Engineering, University of Waterloo CANADA!
"My A5000 includes MIPS R4400 and NT compatibility!"

ps - how hard would it be to port current AmigaOS over to MIPS R4400?

 
 
 

Power PC chip

Post by Jan Holl » Fri, 20 Aug 1993 04:35:03





> >> What is the possibility of getting an Amiga based on one ? It seems like a hot chip.

> >It would be good, if Commodore could get the same chip, that
> >Apple gets - the one with hardware 680x0 code execution.

> Apple is using a plain old everyday PowerPC 601 chip in their first PowerPC
[...]
> Drew's gang could tell something about this in practice), Mac program
> should run at full Mac II speed, at least, on PowerPCs.

I read in c'T (one of german best computer-journals) that the speed of the
PowerMac is depending on the application running about the speed of a Mac
IIci (68030/25Mhz). But porting the software to the PowerPC code gains (of
course) a lot more speed and is said to be not of a big deal.

> --
> Dave Haynie                |    Commodore Technology    | Ki No Kawa Ryu Aikido

> {BIX,Portal}: hazy         | "The Crew That Never Rests"|    to be painless"

>   "I will give the secrets you request, and you will be the one to sacrifice"
>                                    -toad the wet sprocket

--

Jan Holler, Bern, Switzerland         Good is not good enough, make it better!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

1. 500mhz Power PC Chip

I've just read in the new issue of Byte Magazine that a company in
Silicon Valley will be producing a 500mhz Power PC chip in 1997. The chip
will be compatible with the 604. It achieves its speed by using bipolar
technology which can change states much more quickly than conventional
cmos. It will have a performance 3 times better than the fastest
Pentiums today (Presumably the Pentium Pro 200). The chip is tiny
- 150 mm^2 and has only 2kb of Level 1 cache and 32kb of level 2 cache on
chip. However, even with this small amount of cache it is believed that
when it is produced it will be the fastest microprocessor ever (Thats
what it says in Byte anyway).

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