DOOM : LET'S GET ON WITH IT ( Id Software (Doom) responds!)

DOOM : LET'S GET ON WITH IT ( Id Software (Doom) responds!)

Post by Kevin Pico » Sat, 17 Sep 1994 17:48:32

Date: 11 Sep 1994 03:43:36 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct, Inc.

Quote: aic> (Omicron) writes:

 > : : It shouldn't be that difficult, I know for a fact that a 1200 could
 > easily : : run a Doom like game, because I have a game called "Ledgends of
 > Valour" : : which has the screen scrolling thing which doom does, all you
 > really need to : : do is add Big guns, and more * things to kill... and
 > a few levels. not a : : problem.

 > :       You don't have a clue about Assembly programming, or the meaning :
 > of words like chunky, planar, etc... do you? Then don't state :       such
 > nonsense.

 > :       For the record : an intensive discussion has taken place in :      
 > these groups (I think it was csa.hardware, or programmer) :       between
 > Assembly language GURUS (know what this means?) a few :       months ago.
 > These guys know what they are talking about, they :       have been
 > developing games and demos on the Amy since ages.

 > :       They have been debating on the subject for a long time. Some of :  
 > them were persuaded DOOM could be done, some were persuaded of :       the
 > contrary. After some time, they finally *agreed* (read :       my lips,
 > they all agreed) on the point that DOOM *can't* be made :       on the
 > Amiga. Period. There are many reasons, here are some off :       the top of
 > my head (see Usenet archives for details) :

 > : - first of all, the fastest Amiga configuration might come close to :
 > DOOM on a mere 386, but for a market so small that it's not even : worth
 > mentioning it

 aic> What is this fastest Amiga '020 '030 I find it hard to believe that
 aic> 50Mhz  '040 machine *might* come close to 386.....

 Um well so do i , but its not worth considering a machine of that
 small a market share (if any)

 if 040's are to be considered at all the stock A4000 040 config. Will
 have to be there target ... and lower spec'd AGA machines 030's 25mhz
 and up.

 If enought options are in place the player should be able to remove
 as much detail as they wish to bring the game up to a respecable
 frame rate upon there machine. (window sizing / Pixel Blurs / Floors
 Death Cue etc etc)

 I guess with enought options it could run on a 020 a1200 with some
 fast ram (very very small window but!)

 > : - supposing you have this "fastest" Amiga, it will waste so much : time
 > converting chunky to planar that the resulting speed will be : laughable
 > (yes, even with akiko. Who's got Akiko anyway...)

 AKIKO is better than software . but not a real solution on its own

 Via some creative pipelining it should be possible to get the AKIKO
 to convert 3/4's of the window while the CPU does the rest ... (normal
 blitter/CPU chunky to planar style!)

 > : - now you tell me "look, there are all these pseudo-DOOM demos :
 > everywhere" (rot3d, wolf, etc...). Yes, but none of them has : neither
 > monsters (intelligent monsters that is), nor shooting. : And from an ID
 > developer's mouth, this is the kind of detail that : cuts the speed by a
 > non negligeable factor
 aic> I have seen plenty of tru 3d games albeit - the texture mapping run at

 Um like what ?? Legends of valour .... thats about all can think of.

 aic> 30fps on an Amiga 500 or 2000 7Mhz 68000 and in these games the enemys
 aic> were  also tro modeled 3D objects. In Japan there are games on Super
 aic> Nintendo  which approach DOOM quality (although not sophistication or
 aic> as many levels)

 If the Super Nes has texture mapped games , id personal say there games
 in question would use some type of custom chip in the cart ... LIKE the
 SFX chips.

 aic> Now am I to believe that with the addition of texture mapping, a game
 aic> with  the 3D sophistication I have seen many times on the slowest Amiga
 aic> suddenly  cant be done on this "fastest amiga"?

 Hmmm so you where talking FILLED Vectors before then .... OK COOL.

 Texture mapping is an unforgiving process ... unlike with filled vectors,
 when you map a scene every pixel is computed to some degree....
 where as with vectors ... the vertices (corner points) are rotated
 / clipped .. but the diference is to fill in the surface you simply
 draw the lines around the edges you wish to fill, then tell the blitter
 to fill it in ....

 You personal *DONT* consider each pixel in this case .. just the corner

 aic> Assembly Guru debate or not, to say that It can't be done *period* on
 aic> a  machine that is perfect for doing that type of game says that there
 aic> is a  serious mistake floating around out here somewhere. On the PC the
 aic> processor is bogged down running this game. On the Amiga  there are
 aic> chips which would offload the processor and free from a lot of
 aic> tasks.(especially graphic related).

 The AMIGA would and will be perfectly suited to this style of game
 when the GFX chips and blitter are updated to include CHUNKY pixel modes.
 (AAA has these .. i just hope CBM can bring them out.... SOON ENOUGHT!)

 > :       I apologize to the original poster, I just want to take the :      
 > opportunity to give some facts, for a change. I don't mean to be :      
 > harsh to them personally, but the kind of message they post is :      
 > typically what prevents this group from having interesting :       threads
 > by beating a horse that has been dead for ages now.
 aic> Someone should really look into the Amiga architecture and then we can
 aic> move  on...

 It has already been done... its possible but only in a greatly reduced
 form (without goind to such extremes as 50mhz 040's) . via the use of
 many options etc etc.

 Kevin Picone,
 Underware Design
FidoNet:  Kevin Picone 3:637/101.2