Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Stan & Joan Skirvi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



My apologies to all.

I was really unaware that so many people (I suspect now that there are far
more than two) enjoy what I regard as the blathering flamewars.

I do believe that I was slightly singed!

Having gotten an Internet account primarily for the information to which I
now have access and to follow the future (if any) of the Amiga, I failed
to recognize the enjoyments other folks find.

I'm sorry to have upset anyone.

I'll continue to use killfiles and nitpicking of what I download, always
hoping that I can recognize what is worth reading.

Have your fun.

Stan Skirvin

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by John Shee » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:>Having gotten an Internet account primarily for the information

Well, you're not going to find that in *.advocacy.  This is where the
most idealistic Amiga fans talk about how great the Amiga is, and how
much everything else sucks (in direct proportion to unit sales), and
others try to inject a bit of realism into the fantasia, while still
others troll as an end in itself.
--

 <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>

 ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Dr. Peter Kitt » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




>>Having gotten an Internet account primarily for the information

>Well, you're not going to find that in *.advocacy.  This is where the
>most idealistic Amiga fans talk about how great the Amiga is, and how
>much everything else sucks (in direct proportion to unit sales), and
>others try to inject a bit of realism into the fantasia, while still
>others troll as an end in itself.

Uh, please let me correct this slightly mistyped passage:

Well, you're not going to find that in *.advocacy.  This is where the
most idealistic Amiga fans talk about how great the Amiga is, and how
much everything else sucks (in direct mirroring of reality), and
some PC lusers spout hate and bullshit, because they can't dare that
others like such a nice thing like the Amiga and don't bow to Bill Gates.

--
Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel       // http://www.pios.de of PIOS

Still severe newsfeed problems, sorry for delays.

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Alexander W. Do » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





>|
>|>Having gotten an Internet account primarily for the information
>|
>|Well, you're not going to find that in *.advocacy.  This is where the
>|most idealistic Amiga fans talk about how great the Amiga is, and how
>|much everything else sucks (in direct proportion to unit sales), and
>|others try to inject a bit of realism into the fantasia, while still
>|others troll as an end in itself.

So, you've changed the phrase from "Reality Check" to "inject a bit of
realism"?!  It still doesn't seem to hold that much water, I'm afraid.

The truth is, in the last year at least, I have not seen a great many
"outrageous claims" of the Amiga's abilities, but have seen a great
many threads about silly little flaws in the Amiga which, for the most
part, mean little or nothing to the end user.

(Yes, that tremendous thread of "The AmigaOS 11k of Bloat" still comes
to mind-- what a silly arguement!)

From the Amiga Advocates, I have seen, more than anything, arguements
about what the future of the Amiga should and should not hold.

A more accurate description of csaa might be:

A place where Amiga Advocates, who are constantly harassed by
fanatical Anti-Amiga Zealots that have taken it upon themselves, most
of them for several years now, to Bad-mouth the Amiga at every given
opportunity as if it were a personal mission from God-- a place where
Amiga Advocates attempt to defend their own personal computer of
choice from this band of ruffians, and are usually called "Religeous
Zealots" for doing such.

But, of course, where your key point is concerned, you are right.
Advocacy newsgroups are not the best place to find information and
news.  The "*.misc" newsgroups are a bit better for such things.
---
Thank you for your time

Alexander W. Dorn
---
"It's not until I get back to nature that I realize that everything is out to kill me!"

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by bme.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:>(Yes, that tremendous thread of "The AmigaOS 11k of Bloat" still comes
>to mind-- what a silly arguement!)

Of course, the only ones who ever mentioned "11k" and "bloat" in that
discussion were Amiga advocates.


Quote:>>I don't see how anyone could need help installing AmigaOS, anyway.

Just having gone through several installations of AmigaOS, the memory of
those explicitly deselected locales being installed was fresh in my mind,
so I replied

Quote:>*Grin* OK, how do I stop AmigaOS 3.1 from installing all those unneeded
>locale information, like the ones for Switzerland, Germany and France?

First, Terry assumed me to be an idiot --- and told me to use expert mode
for the install. Of course, I had done just that all the time. jthsmith
also claimed that chosing the languages would result in the desired outcome,
and accused me of being too stupid to do so. Bill at least acknowledged
the fact that they were there, and had the following advice: "just delete
them" --- I wonder how that goes down with people complaining about Windows
installing stuff they didn't want. Bill Hogget claimed that it wasn't the
OS's fault, but that of the install script (which happens to be the one that
comes with the OS to install the OS. Hmmmm..).

Then along came darling Alexander, bringing in the size argument. It seems
he has conveniently "forgotten" my response, which was that I couldn't care
less about the size of those things and that what I was concerned with
was simply that I expected things that I explicitly deselected in expert
mode not to be installed.

Then there were another two Amiga users who claimed that the problem didn't
exist, without actually looking closely.

Finally, after having his nose rubbed in it, Terry of all people comes around
and admits that there are 21 files installed when only one was requested ---
of course, not without trying to shift the whole thing towards "size" again.

Then, very late in the game, beloved Aram comes in, and claims (once again)
that using expert mode would solve the problem. He also suggests editing
the install script (which AFAIK is written in some sort of LISP dialect.
Yeah, sure, I can see how nobody ever would need help editing that. NOT!).

In all the time, the only one I have seen openly admitting that indeed there
is a problem (minute as its effects might be) is Terry. Just about everyone
else religiously defended the "AmigaOS is perfect" mantra, without bothering
to do a very simple check.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
                                           ...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Bill Nea » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




>>(Yes, that tremendous thread of "The AmigaOS 11k of Bloat" still comes
>>to mind-- what a silly arguement!)
>Of course, the only ones who ever mentioned "11k" and "bloat" in that
>discussion were Amiga advocates.


Bernard, YOU are the one who was *ing about the extra 11k of files that
Workbench 3.1 unnecessarily installed!

Quote:>>>I don't see how anyone could need help installing AmigaOS, anyway.
>Just having gone through several installations of AmigaOS, the memory of
>those explicitly deselected locales being installed was fresh in my mind,
>so I replied

More like you *ed incessantly.

Quote:>>*Grin* OK, how do I stop AmigaOS 3.1 from installing all those unneeded
>>locale information, like the ones for Switzerland, Germany and France?
>First, Terry assumed me to be an idiot --- and told me to use expert mode
>for the install. Of course, I had done just that all the time. jthsmith
>also claimed that chosing the languages would result in the desired outcome,

                   ^^^^^^^
QWERTY, typo, spelling error, or misuse?

Quote:>and accused me of being too stupid to do so. Bill at least acknowledged
>the fact that they were there, and had the following advice: "just delete
>them" --- I wonder how that goes down with people complaining about Windows
>installing stuff they didn't want. Bill Hogget claimed that it wasn't the
>OS's fault, but that of the install script (which happens to be the one that
>comes with the OS to install the OS. Hmmmm..).

Bernd, deleting 11k of files that are in one directory is hardly the same as
deleting megs upon megs of shit that is strewn all over the hard drive, ala
Windoze.

--
      ///   Bill Near       Team AMIGA
     ///
    ///   A2000/Blizzard 2060/Picasso IV
\\\/// ioExtender/Workbench 3.1/Supra 33.6k
 \\\/   EZFlyer/ViewSonic 17GS/ScanJet 5p

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by bme.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





>>>(Yes, that tremendous thread of "The AmigaOS 11k of Bloat" still comes
>>>to mind-- what a silly arguement!)
>>Of course, the only ones who ever mentioned "11k" and "bloat" in that
>>discussion were Amiga advocates.
>Bernard, YOU are the one who was *ing about the extra 11k of files that
>Workbench 3.1 unnecessarily installed!

Really? Bill, can you produce a single posting where I complained about
"bloat", or any particular harddisk space being taken up by these files?

Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?

But don't just post something where I say that _the files_ get installed,
wondering why that does happen when I explicitly deselected them. You know,
like in not giving a damn about how much space they take up....

Quote:>>>>I don't see how anyone could need help installing AmigaOS, anyway.
>>First, Terry assumed me to be an idiot --- and told me to use expert mode
>>for the install. Of course, I had done just that all the time. jthsmith
>>also claimed that chosing the languages would result in the desired outcome,
>                   ^^^^^^^
>QWERTY, typo, spelling error, or misuse?

Spelling error. "To chose" is an irregular verb.

Quote:>>and accused me of being too stupid to do so. Bill at least acknowledged
>>the fact that they were there, and had the following advice: "just delete
>>them" --- I wonder how that goes down with people complaining about Windows
>>installing stuff they didn't want. Bill Hogget claimed that it wasn't the
>>OS's fault, but that of the install script (which happens to be the one that
>>comes with the OS to install the OS. Hmmmm..).
>Bernd, deleting 11k of files that are in one directory is hardly the same as
>deleting megs upon megs of shit that is strewn all over the hard drive, ala
>Windoze.

Why not? What is the qualitative difference?

Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
                                           ...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Bill Nea » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






>>>>(Yes, that tremendous thread of "The AmigaOS 11k of Bloat" still comes
>>>>to mind-- what a silly arguement!)
>>>Of course, the only ones who ever mentioned "11k" and "bloat" in that
>>>discussion were Amiga advocates.
>>Bernard, YOU are the one who was *ing about the extra 11k of files that
>>Workbench 3.1 unnecessarily installed!
>Really? Bill, can you produce a single posting where I complained about
>"bloat", or any particular harddisk space being taken up by these files?
>Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?
>But don't just post something where I say that _the files_ get installed,
>wondering why that does happen when I explicitly deselected them. You know,
>like in not giving a damn about how much space they take up....

I will look, oh great one.

Quote:>>>>>I don't see how anyone could need help installing AmigaOS, anyway.
>>>First, Terry assumed me to be an idiot --- and told me to use expert mode
>>>for the install. Of course, I had done just that all the time. jthsmith
>>>also claimed that chosing the languages would result in the desired outcome,
>>                   ^^^^^^^
>>QWERTY, typo, spelling error, or misuse?
>Spelling error. "To chose" is an irregular verb.

You meant "choosing", so why not just say it?

Quote:>>>and accused me of being too stupid to do so. Bill at least acknowledged
>>>the fact that they were there, and had the following advice: "just delete
>>>them" --- I wonder how that goes down with people complaining about Windows
>>>installing stuff they didn't want. Bill Hogget claimed that it wasn't the
>>>OS's fault, but that of the install script (which happens to be the one that
>>>comes with the OS to install the OS. Hmmmm..).
>>Bernd, deleting 11k of files that are in one directory is hardly the same as
>>deleting megs upon megs of shit that is strewn all over the hard drive, ala
>>Windoze.
>Why not? What is the qualitative difference?

Can you read? The differences is 11k of files in ONE directory versus megs of
files all over hell on the hard drive. Comprende?

--
      ///   Bill Near       Team AMIGA
     ///
    ///   A2000/Blizzard 2060/Picasso IV
\\\/// ioExtender/Workbench 3.1/Supra 33.6k
 \\\/   EZFlyer/ViewSonic 17GS/ScanJet 5p

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by bme.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





>>Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?
>I will look, oh great one.

Remember to report the results of your "looking"

[chosing]

Quote:>>>QWERTY, typo, spelling error, or misuse?
>>Spelling error. "To chose" is an irregular verb.
>You meant "choosing", so why not just say it?

Because my spelling of irregular verbs is not all that hot, maybe?

Quote:>>>Bernd, deleting 11k of files that are in one directory is hardly the same as
>>>deleting megs upon megs of shit that is strewn all over the hard drive, ala
>>>Windoze.
>>Why not? What is the qualitative difference?
>Can you read? The differences is 11k of files in ONE directory versus megs of
>files all over hell on the hard drive. Comprende?

No. What is the _qualitative_ difference?

Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
                                           ...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Bill Nea » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


On 1 Dec 1997 01:52:17 GMT, Bill Near articulated this in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:





>>>>>(Yes, that tremendous thread of "The AmigaOS 11k of Bloat" still comes
>>>>>to mind-- what a silly arguement!)
>>>>Of course, the only ones who ever mentioned "11k" and "bloat" in that
>>>>discussion were Amiga advocates.
>>>Bernard, YOU are the one who was *ing about the extra 11k of files that
>>>Workbench 3.1 unnecessarily installed!
>>Really? Bill, can you produce a single posting where I complained about
>>"bloat", or any particular harddisk space being taken up by these files?
>>Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?
>>But don't just post something where I say that _the files_ get installed,
>>wondering why that does happen when I explicitly deselected them. You know,
>>like in not giving a damn about how much space they take up....
>I will look, oh great one.

Try this:

=========
*Grin* OK, how do I stop AmigaOS 3.1 from installing all those unneeded
locale information, like the ones for Switzerland, Germany and France?

Bernie
=========

Now, granted, you didn't actually use the word "bloat" (Alexander did), this
most certainly implies it. After all, what does "unneeded" imply, if
not bloat of some form?

--
      ///   Bill Near       Team AMIGA
     ///
    ///   A2000/Blizzard 2060/Picasso IV
\\\/// ioExtender/Workbench 3.1/Supra 33.6k
 \\\/   EZFlyer/ViewSonic 17GS/ScanJet 5p

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Bill Nea » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






>>>Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?
>>I will look, oh great one.
>Remember to report the results of your "looking"

Done.

Quote:>[chosing]
>>>>QWERTY, typo, spelling error, or misuse?
>>>Spelling error. "To chose" is an irregular verb.
>>You meant "choosing", so why not just say it?
>Because my spelling of irregular verbs is not all that hot, maybe?

Maybe, but doubtful.

Quote:>>>>Bernd, deleting 11k of files that are in one directory is hardly the same as
>>>>deleting megs upon megs of shit that is strewn all over the hard drive, ala
>>>>Windoze.
>>>Why not? What is the qualitative difference?
>>Can you read? The differences is 11k of files in ONE directory versus megs of
>>files all over hell on the hard drive. Comprende?
>No. What is the _qualitative_ difference?

If you're trying to get me to say that they both involve files, fine. But, the
real difference we are speaking of is the number, size, and location of said
files.

--
      ///   Bill Near       Team AMIGA
     ///
    ///   A2000/Blizzard 2060/Picasso IV
\\\/// ioExtender/Workbench 3.1/Supra 33.6k
 \\\/   EZFlyer/ViewSonic 17GS/ScanJet 5p

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by bme.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



>On 1 Dec 1997 01:52:17 GMT, Bill Near articulated this in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:

>>>Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?
>>>But don't just post something where I say that _the files_ get installed,
>>>wondering why that does happen when I explicitly deselected them. You know,
>>>like in not giving a damn about how much space they take up....
>Try this:
>=========
>*Grin* OK, how do I stop AmigaOS 3.1 from installing all those unneeded
>locale information, like the ones for Switzerland, Germany and France?
>Bernie
>=========

Bill, PLEASE learn to read! You did exactly what I explicitly asked you
not to do!

In the above, I am not "*ing", I am not mentioning "11k". I am just
pointing out that it installed _something_ that I told it was unneeded?

So, Bill, I still wait for the apology.

Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
                                           ...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by bme.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





>>>Can you read? The differences is 11k of files in ONE directory
>>>versus megs of files all over hell on the hard drive. Comprende?
>>No. What is the _qualitative_ difference?
>If you're trying to get me to say that they both involve files, fine. But, the
>real difference we are speaking of is the number, size, and location of said
>files.

Number and size are _quantitative_ differences. And I can't really see how
deleting files from one OS-specific directory is all that different from
deleting files from another OS-specific directory.

Bernie
--
============================================================================
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...
                                           ...let's go exploring"
Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Bill Nea » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






>>>>Can you read? The differences is 11k of files in ONE directory
>>>>versus megs of files all over hell on the hard drive. Comprende?
>>>No. What is the _qualitative_ difference?
>>If you're trying to get me to say that they both involve files, fine. But, the
>>real difference we are speaking of is the number, size, and location of said
>>files.
>Number and size are _quantitative_ differences. And I can't really see how
>deleting files from one OS-specific directory is all that different from
>deleting files from another OS-specific directory.

Where did you ever dream up the idea that I was talking about a SPECIFIC
directory on both machines? I have CLEARLY stated time and again that the
Windoze files are spread from hell to breakfast on the hard drive, not in ONE
directory as the 11k of files are in Workbench.

--
      ///   Bill Near       Team AMIGA
     ///
    ///   A2000/Blizzard 2060/Picasso IV
\\\/// ioExtender/Workbench 3.1/Supra 33.6k
 \\\/   EZFlyer/ViewSonic 17GS/ScanJet 5p

 
 
 

Failure to know that flamewars can be entertaining

Post by Bill Nea » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




>>On 1 Dec 1997 01:52:17 GMT, Bill Near articulated this in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:

>>>>Just one, Bill. A single one! Or apologize, OK?
>>>>But don't just post something where I say that _the files_ get installed,
>>>>wondering why that does happen when I explicitly deselected them. You know,
>>>>like in not giving a damn about how much space they take up....
>>Try this:
>>=========
>>*Grin* OK, how do I stop AmigaOS 3.1 from installing all those unneeded
>>locale information, like the ones for Switzerland, Germany and France?
>>Bernie
>>=========
>Bill, PLEASE learn to read! You did exactly what I explicitly asked you
>not to do!

So ground me, mommy.

Quote:>In the above, I am not "*ing", I am not mentioning "11k". I am just
>pointing out that it installed _something_ that I told it was unneeded?
>So, Bill, I still wait for the apology.

Bernd, you went on and on, ad nauseum, about those files a while back! Must I
requote all your *ing?

--
      ///   Bill Near       Team AMIGA
     ///
    ///   A2000/Blizzard 2060/Picasso IV
\\\/// ioExtender/Workbench 3.1/Supra 33.6k
 \\\/   EZFlyer/ViewSonic 17GS/ScanJet 5p

 
 
 

1. Help me I am an ULTIMA 4 failure

Yes I know Ultima 4 is crap/old but so what does everyone have to have a life?
Anyway, I need to get to Nostro but I don't know how to get past that blue field thingy. I lost my manuals when I moved so the only spells I remember are light, cure, winds etc., and the little cloth map isn't exactly a gold mine of tips 'n' tricks. Please help by either telling me how to get to him or by giving me a list of spells & necessary reagents, if you know what I mean. Cheers.

2. Counter-intelligence, fax encryptors and hidden chips

3. Any know a good 68000 Assembler for the Am

4. cc1plus.exe: Cannot allocate 65536 bytes after allocating XXXXX bytes

5. M$ and P.R. in General (no Amiga content...but entertaining)

6. EXPLORER caused an invalid page fault...

7. Cash in your pop cans, and buy Commodore!

8. Global Assembly cache

9. I am truly sorry that I am not as bright as most others...

10. Oil cans in Innocent Until Caught

11. Opera browser project canned

12. c.s.a.flamewars

13. Everyone welcome Tom Hill to his first Usenet FlameWar