Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Pete Henr » Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:00:00



Please excuse my ignorance about this subject... But I gotta ask.

SysInfo tells me I have a ZorroII slot (SCSI port to the left where I
have my DF500 HD connected).

I hear someone selling a Retina graphics board that fits in a ZorroII
slot.

Does the A500 in fact have a Zorro II slot? IF so, how can you hook up a
graphics board AND a hard drive controller at the same time? (or that
why people bought A2000's?)

What will a graphic board do for me that I cannot do now? I haven't seen
one but I hear people raving about them.

Any info appreciated, THANKS!

Cheers!

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Frank Russe » Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:00:00




>Subject: Zorro I or Zorro II?!
>Date: 25 Feb 97 12:47:05 -600
>Please excuse my ignorance about this subject... But I gotta ask.
>SysInfo tells me I have a ZorroII slot (SCSI port to the left where I
>have my DF500 HD connected).
>I hear someone selling a Retina graphics board that fits in a ZorroII
>slot.
>Does the A500 in fact have a Zorro II slot? IF so, how can you hook up a
>graphics board AND a hard drive controller at the same time? (or that
>why people bought A2000's?)
>What will a graphic board do for me that I cannot do now? I haven't seen
>one but I hear people raving about them.
>Any info appreciated, THANKS!
>Cheers!

Nope. Sysinfo is wrong. The A500 has a zorro1, same as the A1000. zorro2 came
with the A2000

Cheers

Frank

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Too Ta » Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:00:00





>>Subject: Zorro I or Zorro II?!
>>Date: 25 Feb 97 12:47:05 -600

>>Please excuse my ignorance about this subject... But I gotta ask.

>>SysInfo tells me I have a ZorroII slot (SCSI port to the left where I
>>have my DF500 HD connected).

>>I hear someone selling a Retina graphics board that fits in a ZorroII
>>slot.

>>Does the A500 in fact have a Zorro II slot? IF so, how can you hook up a
>>graphics board AND a hard drive controller at the same time? (or that
>>why people bought A2000's?)

>>What will a graphic board do for me that I cannot do now? I haven't seen
>>one but I hear people raving about them.

>>Any info appreciated, THANKS!

>>Cheers!

>Nope. Sysinfo is wrong. The A500 has a zorro1, same as the A1000. zorro2 came
>with the A2000

However you can BUILD or order a 2000 slot onto your 500 (i have, with
a gvp series II card running..)
The GFX boards allow you to have HIGHER resolutions and MORE colors.
They're nice for going on-line and your WB screens look more
professional, i hear that there is also common software that supports
them now too..(paint programs, games?)

later
Too Tall

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Mer'ra » Fri, 28 Feb 1997 04:00:00




: >Subject: Zorro I or Zorro II?!
: >Date: 25 Feb 97 12:47:05 -600

: >Please excuse my ignorance about this subject... But I gotta ask.

: >SysInfo tells me I have a ZorroII slot (SCSI port to the left where I
: >have my DF500 HD connected).

: >I hear someone selling a Retina graphics board that fits in a ZorroII
: >slot.

: >Does the A500 in fact have a Zorro II slot? IF so, how can you hook up a
: >graphics board AND a hard drive controller at the same time? (or that
: >why people bought A2000's?)

: >What will a graphic board do for me that I cannot do now? I haven't seen
: >one but I hear people raving about them.

: >Any info appreciated, THANKS!

: >Cheers!

: Nope. Sysinfo is wrong. The A500 has a zorro1, same as the A1000. zorro2 came
: with the A2000

   Ugh.  Guys guys guys!  You forget your details sooo easily.  :P :)

   Niether the A-1000 or the A-500 have Z-1 slots.  They have 86 pin
expansion slots.  They are the almost the same pinouts as the CPU slot in
the A-2000.

   Zorro-1 is almost the same as Zorro-2 (read: both 16 bit data/24 bit
address), with a square board form factor, instead of rectangular.  
Commodore had introduced the Zorro-1 standard only to pull the rug out
from under third party developers pretty soon after that with the
introduction of the Amiga 2000, which as designed couldn't fit Z-1
cards.  Z-2's form factor was meant to be compatable with the ISA form
factor.  At the time there were already lots of Z-1 card cages for the
A-1000, as well as lots of Z-1 boards ranging from RAM cards to GPIB
interfaces.  None of them could be used on the A-2000 and it would
probably be very hard to find a Z-1 board anywhere today.

   The reason SysInfo shows a Zorro-2 board installed in your A-500 is
that your interface resides in Autoconfig space, and autoconfigures.  
There's no physical slot there, save for the 86 pin slot that it's
plugged into, but they way it was built is like making a Z-2 interface,
and then interfacing the HD controller to that.  Makes things easier
anyways.  You don't have to worry about installing special driver
software like you had to with old Amiga 1000's running pre 1.2 Kickstart.

   I hope that helps.  :)

--
Turned into my worst phobia.  It's a crazy man's utopia.
If you're lost no one can show ya, but it sure was glad to know ya!
Bye bye!
    -- Axl Rose

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Joea » Thu, 06 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>SysInfo tells me I have a ZorroII slot (SCSI port to the left where I
>have my DF500 HD connected).

>I hear someone selling a Retina graphics board that fits in a ZorroII
>slot.

>Does the A500 in fact have a Zorro II slot? IF so, how can you hook up a
>graphics board AND a hard drive controller at the same time? (or that
>why people bought A2000's?)

>What will a graphic board do for me that I cannot do now? I haven't seen
>one but I hear people raving about them.

Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
2000 has zorro II.  A buddy of mine has had cards that came with adapters
so the same card originally designed for Amiga 500 would work with this
little adapter in the 2000. As for 2000 cards in a 500/1000, I have not
seen one of those but I assume there is something called the side car or
something that gives you several zorro II slots and even allows
bridgeboards. Might need one of those first.  Also on the graphics cards,
keep in mind there is a 8 megabyte limit, if you already have 8 megs of
ram, you might either not be able to autoconfig the additional meg or two
of ram on the retina card or your gfx card will take away ram from the
system, it depends on the gfx card and the memories' prioirty. In my case
I am forced to order a whole new accellerator because it will not allow
any of my spectrum's video memory to configure.
 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Mer'ra » Thu, 06 Mar 1997 04:00:00


: Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
: 2000 has zorro II.  A buddy of mine has had cards that came with adapters

   I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Gosh, doesn't anyone
remember this right?  =P

   The Amiga 500 and 1000 did /not/ have Zorro I.  Zorro I and Zorro II
are almost identical, it is the form factor that is the major difference,
nothing else.  The A-1000 and A-500 have 86 pin expansion connectors
which are almost identical to the A-2000's CPU slot.

   Zorro I was introduced not tooo long before the A-2000 was
introduced.  It was probably redesigned into Zorro II because the older
square form factor wouldn't have worked too well given the size and
dimensions of the Amiga 2000 and it's bridge slots.

   There were numerous Zorro I card cages made for the Amiga 1000 prior
to this, and afterwards a few Zorro II card cages were developed.  But
the Amiga 1000 or 500 never had built in Zorro I slots.  That's obvious.

   There.  I said it.  I feel better.

--
Turned into my worst phobia.  It's a crazy man's utopia.
If you're lost no one can show ya, but it sure was glad to know ya!
Bye bye!
    -- Axl Rose (but people keep saying it's Alice Cooper!)

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Mer'ra » Sun, 09 Mar 1997 04:00:00


: Hi Joeayo,


: : Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
: : 2000 has zorro II.
: :

: The A500 has a Zorro II slot.

   You're doing this delibrately ain't ya?

   No it doesn't!  Look at my previous post.  :P :P :P

   Nyah nyah nyah.  =)
--
Turned into my worst phobia.  It's a crazy man's utopia.
If you're lost no one can show ya, but it sure was glad to know ya!
Bye bye!
    -- Axl Rose (but people keep saying it's Alice Cooper!)

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Jonathan Gap » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00





>: : Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
>: : 2000 has zorro II.
>: :
>: The A500 has a Zorro II slot.
>   You're doing this delibrately ain't ya?
>   No it doesn't!  Look at my previous post.  :P :P :P
>   Nyah nyah nyah.  =)

    I can't find where I stashed it now, but I had a posting from Dave
Haynie stating that there never was such a thing as an Amiga with a Zorro I
slot.  The A1000 and A500 have an 86-pin expansion port, which happens to be
very similar to a single Zorro II slot.

--

Some lead. Others follow. I'm lost.

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Dave Hayn » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00







>>: : Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
>>: : 2000 has zorro II.
>>: The A500 has a Zorro II slot.
>>   You're doing this delibrately ain't ya?
>>   No it doesn't!  Look at my previous post.  :P :P :P
>    I can't find where I stashed it now, but I had a posting from Dave
>Haynie stating that there never was such a thing as an Amiga with a Zorro I
>slot.  

That would be correct! You win the cupie doll!

Basically, back in the A1000 days, the expansion bus design wasn't
done, and there was no practical way to put slots in. So they shipped
the A1000 with The Expansion Edge. This contains most of the Zorro bus
signals, but also what you need to add on extra CPUs, like the A2000
coprocessor slot, which is also resembles.

The expansion specifications came out, and they included a physical
form factor for the first card, which came to be known as "Zorro I".
This was a rectangular card, with connectors along the long edge and a
panel with screws, so it could be installed from the outside of a box.
More like VME bus's card idea than the PC-AT bus.

The next year, there was a project going on, at the small C=
engineering branch in Germany, to make an A1000 follow-up, but one
more like a PC (since, of course, the Germans did all the Commodore
PCs at the time). The folks in charge there wanted the option of using
PC cards, and this "bridge card" idea, to make it easy to have PClone
stuff in the box. This became the A2000, and the PC-AT form-factor of
the Amiga bus became known at Zorro II.

With a few exceptions that rarely made a practical difference, other
than the card didn't mechanically fit. If you took a Zorro I card and
put it in a Zorro II machine, it would proibably work. But it wouldn't
fit if you had the case on, and all the connectors would be pointing
at the ceiling.

Zorro III was something completely different, that just happened to
support Zorro II as a subset, when called for. I did just about all
the Zorro III work at Commodore.

Quote:>The A1000 and A500 have an 86-pin expansion port, which happens to be
>very similar to a single Zorro II slot.

Like I said before, it's actually more like the CPU slot on an A2000.
The original A2000 had an "MMU Slot"; the German group had some idea
of adding an external MMU to the machine, and so they brought out the
68000 bus and a few other signals, mostly from the A1000 edge, to this
MMU slot (it was even an 86-pin slot).

When I got the A2000 "cost reduction" project at Commodore West
Chester, it was pretty clear this idea was silly. But the idea of an
upgrade slot for CPUs rocked. Since I was designing a gate array to
take do the work of several PAL devices and buffers in the original
A2000, it was fairly easy to define new protocols, using most of the
same signals, that made the CPU slot a reality.

I guess it worked. Most computers last about a year or two. The A2000
has been going fairly strong for ten years -- even when it was out of
production, folks were bring out '040 and '060 cards for it, at the
same time, maybe even before they did cards for the A3000/A4000.

Dave Haynie      V.P. Hardware Engineering    PIOS Computer

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Anbjorn Myre » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00




>: Hi Joeayo,


>: : Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
>: : 2000 has zorro II.
>: :

>: The A500 has a Zorro II slot.

>   You're doing this delibrately ain't ya?

>   No it doesn't!  Look at my previous post.  :P :P :P

I don't know if to call the expansion slot a Zorro II slot or not, but the slingshot
, which has a ZorroII slot and a troughput for the expansion slot has no controllers
or electronic components, it's just a plain adapter.

--
Anbjorn Myren, Norway, A4000/040, IRC: Anmy

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Michael van El » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00



>    I can't find where I stashed it now, but I had a posting from Dave
>Haynie stating that there never was such a thing as an Amiga with a Zorro I
>slot.

Right. Zorro-I was the original design which was quite similar to
Zorro-II but differed mainly in the form factor. Zorro-II changes this
so that boards use the same form factor as ISA boards except for the
position of the connector.

Quote:>The A1000 and A500 have an 86-pin expansion port, which happens to be
>very similar to a single Zorro II slot.

Right. Zorro-II is something like a superset of the 86-pin expansion
port.

--
                                Michael van Elst


                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Greg Tallen » Thu, 13 Mar 1997 04:00:00








>>>: : Zorro I and II are very similar, the Amiga 500 and 1000 have Zorro I, the
>>>: : 2000 has zorro II.

>>>: The A500 has a Zorro II slot.
>>>   You're doing this delibrately ain't ya?
>>>   No it doesn't!  Look at my previous post.  :P :P :P

>>    I can't find where I stashed it now, but I had a posting from Dave
>>Haynie stating that there never was such a thing as an Amiga with a Zorro I
>>slot.
>That would be correct! You win the cupie doll!
>Basically, back in the A1000 days, the expansion bus design wasn't
>done, and there was no practical way to put slots in. So they shipped
>the A1000 with The Expansion Edge. This contains most of the Zorro bus
>signals, but also what you need to add on extra CPUs, like the A2000
>coprocessor slot, which is also resembles.

  Interesting.  Would it be possible to add a CPU slot to the A500?  Something
like what you get with the 2000.  For some reason, The thought of adding a 060/50
to the 500 would be kinda fun.

<snip>

Quote:>>The A1000 and A500 have an 86-pin expansion port, which happens to be
>>very similar to a single Zorro II slot.
>Like I said before, it's actually more like the CPU slot on an A2000.
>The original A2000 had an "MMU Slot"; the German group had some idea
>of adding an external MMU to the machine, and so they brought out the
>68000 bus and a few other signals, mostly from the A1000 edge, to this
>MMU slot (it was even an 86-pin slot).

  Was this something where, You could have a 68000 and a 68851?

Quote:>When I got the A2000 "cost reduction" project at Commodore West
>Chester, it was pretty clear this idea was silly. But the idea of an
>upgrade slot for CPUs rocked. Since I was designing a gate array to
>take do the work of several PAL devices and buffers in the original
>A2000, it was fairly easy to define new protocols, using most of the
>same signals, that made the CPU slot a reality.

  And it works great too!

Quote:>I guess it worked. Most computers last about a year or two. The A2000
>has been going fairly strong for ten years -- even when it was out of
>production, folks were bring out '040 and '060 cards for it, at the
>same time, maybe even before they did cards for the A3000/A4000.

  IMHO, The A2000 was the best designed Amiga there was, It's easy to maintain,
Easy to get parts for, Rugged, Dependable, and will work with just about anything
you can stick in there.  It's no wonder that the design has lasted this long.

  Now, If I can get a PPC added to it...

>Dave Haynie      V.P. Hardware Engineering    PIOS Computer


<TSB>
Greg Tallent       |Amiga2000/040/33mhz/3.1 32 megs ram,2 gig/Toaster3.1 |

In Northern Calif. |AMD-K5-P133/32 Megs ram,2.8 Gigs, LightWave, Win95   |
Living on 750 Acres|P166/64 Megs ram,11 gig's, LightWave, Win95          |

I derailed my train of thought - hundreds were killed.

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Pasi Vaahte » Fri, 14 Mar 1997 04:00:00


g>
Distribution:

Quote:> Interesting.  Would it be possible to add a CPU slot to the A500?  Something
> like what you get with the 2000.  For some reason, The thought of adding a
> 060/50 to the 500 would be kinda fun.

...The expansion slot on the A500 IS basically same as the A2000 CPU slot!
(its just mirrored and opposite gender with some minor differences) For
example, check out the SupraTurbo28 for A500 : It has a connector for A500
expansion slot and a pass-through connector for other devices. The turbo
can also be dropped straight into the A2000 CPU- slot, just use the
pass-through connector for that! (and change one jumper...)

...Hangovering around,

   Vaasa Institute of Technology, Finland

 
 
 

Zorro I or Zorro II?!

Post by Greg Tallen » Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:00:00



Quote:>g>
>Distribution:

<this message got a little trashed>

Quote:>> Interesting.  Would it be possible to add a CPU slot to the A500?  Something
>> like what you get with the 2000.  For some reason, The thought of adding a
>> 060/50 to the 500 would be kinda fun.
>...The expansion slot on the A500 IS basically same as the A2000 CPU slot!
>(its just mirrored and opposite gender with some minor differences) For
>example, check out the SupraTurbo28 for A500 : It has a connector for A500
>expansion slot and a pass-through connector for other devices. The turbo
>can also be dropped straight into the A2000 CPU- slot, just use the
>pass-through connector for that! (and change one jumper...)

  I know that the SupraTurbo 28 will work with either the 500 or 2000, What I
want to know is...  Can I make a CPU Slot(as in the 2000) for the 500.  I want
something that I can just drop in my GVP 040/33 accel to.  Currently I have a ZII
slot with my GVP 2000 HD-8 SCSI controller.  I'm pretty sure that I can't just
drop in an accelerator into that slot and get it to work.

  I don't want to use the ST28, My current 020/14 runs rings around the ST28.
I'm thinking about replacing my GVP 040/33 with an 060 accel and I'd like to be
able to use the 040 on my 500, Otherwise I probably won't be using it.

  Now then, How do I go about adapting my 500's slot to be able to use my GVP?

  I recently purchased a 2000 to replace my 500, But right now it's not working,
So I might as well see if this is possible.  The 2000 is having a problem with
color, I don't get any black text at all.  it also came with a 2091 controller
and a Quantum 40 Meg drive that's broken.  So far, I've replaced ALL of the
socketed chips to no effect.  It's a rev 6 A2000.

<TSB>
Greg Tallent       |Amiga2000/040/33mhz/3.1 32 megs ram,2 gig/Toaster3.1 |

In Northern Calif. |AMD-K5-P133/32 Megs ram,2.8 Gigs, LightWave, Win95   |
Living on 750 Acres|P166/64 Megs ram,11 gig's, LightWave, Win95          |

POVERTY: Having too much month left at the end of the money.