current unsolicited fax law?

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Lisa nor Je » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00



What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?

We are getting lots of unwanted faxes.  This is a problem since they
tie up the fax machine and a waste of supplies.

I heard (don't know if true) that faxers are allowed one unsolicited
fax and you can tell them not to do it anymore.  But if true, that isn't
any good because lots of senders can send you only 'one' fax.

Many of the senders offer only a vague 800 number or even a toll number.
Frankly, we don't have time to deal with that, nor think we should
have to.  Besides, even if we called every one, it wouldn't stop.

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Linc Madiso » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00




> What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?

47 USC 227, which is a shorthand for Title 47, United States Code,
Section 227. See <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html>

Quote:> We are getting lots of unwanted faxes.  This is a problem since they
> tie up the fax machine and a waste of supplies.

> I heard (don't know if true) that faxers are allowed one unsolicited
> fax and you can tell them not to do it anymore.  But if true, that isn't
> any good because lots of senders can send you only 'one' fax.

No, they're not allowed even one fax. See paragraph (b)(1)(C)

Quote:> Many of the senders offer only a vague 800 number or even a toll number.
> Frankly, we don't have time to deal with that, nor think we should
> have to.  Besides, even if we called every one, it wouldn't stop.

You can sue them for $500 per fax (trebled if the court finds that the
violation was willful), but in practical terms that's very unlikely to
be workable, especially if the sender is not local to you. Even if the
sender is local, there is still the matter of collecting the judgment.
However, there was a case in Georgia that just certified a class action
against a fax spammer. You can read about that one on Yahoo:
<http://biz.yahoo.com/law/000721/86831-6.html>

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Lisa nor Je » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Thanks for the information.

Quote:> You can sue them for $500 per fax (trebled if the court finds that the
> violation was willful), but in practical terms that's very unlikely to
> be workable, especially if the sender is not local to you.

I suspect the faxers tend to be pretty smart about insulating themeselves
from identification.  In other words, if you want to find out who
they are, you'd have to do a search on an 800 number or website to
get a street address and company name, which might actually only
be a order-taking or mail-drop.  You'd then have to do another trace.
(And that assumes all intermediate parties would cooperate, which is
doubtful).  Most people, including me, just don't have the time to
*around with it.  And they know it, which is why they do it.

(I don't know why or how customers would buy from these anoymous
carefully-cloaked sellers).

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Jerry Lesl » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00



: What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?

: We are getting lots of unwanted faxes.  This is a problem since they
: tie up the fax machine and a waste of supplies.

: I heard (don't know if true) that faxers are allowed one unsolicited
: fax and you can tell them not to do it anymore.  But if true, that isn't
: any good because lots of senders can send you only 'one' fax.

: Many of the senders offer only a vague 800 number or even a toll number.
: Frankly, we don't have time to deal with that, nor think we should
: have to.  Besides, even if we called every one, it wouldn't stop.

  http://www.veryComputer.com/
  Consumer News: What You Can Do About Unsolicited Telephone Marketing
  Calls and Faxes

  http://www.veryComputer.com/
  Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 ("TCPA")

  http://www.veryComputer.com/
  junkfaxes.org - Helping to Stop * Junk Faxes

The Texas Attorney General is suing one abusive fax business:

  http://www.veryComputer.com/
  CORNYN SUES BROADCAST FAX BUSINESS

--Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Steven Licht » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

>(I don't know why or how customers would buy from these anoymous
>carefully-cloaked sellers).

The same reason these foold buy services from people who say they will post
their ad or mail to thousands on the net they are stupid!!

Apple Elite II 909-359-5338. Home of GBBS/LLUCE, support for the
Apple II and Macintosh 24 hours  2400/14.4.  An OggNet Server.

The only good spammer is a dead one, have you hunted one down today?  (c)

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Lizard Blizzar » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00



> What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?

It's in the TCPA, Telephone Consumer Protection Act on the www.fcc.gov
web site.

Quote:> We are getting lots of unwanted faxes.  This is a problem since they
> tie up the fax machine and a waste of supplies.

We're starting to get them too.  They have a 800 number to remove your
fax from their list, and I've done it acouple times.  But then the faxes
start coming from another number, like they sold their list to someone
else.

Quote:> I heard (don't know if true) that faxers are allowed one unsolicited
> fax and you can tell them not to do it anymore.  But if true, that isn't
> any good because lots of senders can send you only 'one' fax.

That's not true.  Read the FCC stuff and do NOT take our word for it.

Quote:> Many of the senders offer only a vague 800 number or even a toll number.
> Frankly, we don't have time to deal with that, nor think we should
> have to.  Besides, even if we called every one, it wouldn't stop.

The FCC fined one company $85,000 for offenses after they had signed a
consent order to cease faxspamming.  So there is some justice in the
world.  Read the fcc stuff about it.
 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Lizard Blizzar » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00





> > What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?
> 47 USC 227, which is a shorthand for Title 47, United States Code,
> Section 227. See <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html>

It's probably better for the consumer to read the Frequently asked
Questions list on the TCPA on the FCC's web site www.fcc.gov.
Quote:> You can sue them for $500 per fax (trebled if the court finds that the
> violation was willful), but in practical terms that's very unlikely to
> be workable, especially if the sender is not local to you. Even if the
> sender is local, there is still the matter of collecting the judgment.
> However, there was a case in Georgia that just certified a class action
> against a fax spammer. You can read about that one on Yahoo:
> <http://biz.yahoo.com/law/000721/86831-6.html>

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Edwin Fro » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Do this:
find the number they are faxing from...get a length of fax paper (3
feet or so), and put a thick black line down the middle of it, for the
entire length.  Send it in the machine, and send it to the machine
that originally sent the fax.  When it's half way though the machine,
tape the ends together and let it run for a few hours..do it at night,
so noone notices :)
hehe
Edwin




>> What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?

>It's in the TCPA, Telephone Consumer Protection Act on the www.fcc.gov
>web site.

>> We are getting lots of unwanted faxes.  This is a problem since they
>> tie up the fax machine and a waste of supplies.

>We're starting to get them too.  They have a 800 number to remove your
>fax from their list, and I've done it acouple times.  But then the faxes
>start coming from another number, like they sold their list to someone
>else.

>> I heard (don't know if true) that faxers are allowed one unsolicited
>> fax and you can tell them not to do it anymore.  But if true, that isn't
>> any good because lots of senders can send you only 'one' fax.

>That's not true.  Read the FCC stuff and do NOT take our word for it.

>> Many of the senders offer only a vague 800 number or even a toll number.
>> Frankly, we don't have time to deal with that, nor think we should
>> have to.  Besides, even if we called every one, it wouldn't stop.

>The FCC fined one company $85,000 for offenses after they had signed a
>consent order to cease faxspamming.  So there is some justice in the
>world.  Read the fcc stuff about it.

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Jonathan Kame » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>find the number they are faxing from...get a length of fax paper (3
>feet or so), and put a thick black line down the middle of it, for the
>entire length.  Send it in the machine, and send it to the machine
>that originally sent the fax.  When it's half way though the machine,
>tape the ends together and let it run for a few hours..do it at night,
>so noone notices :)

1) The number they sent from may be long-distance.

2) The number they sent from probably isn't represented properly in
the fax header (that's illegal, but heck, so is the junk fax itself,
so what makes you think they're obeying the law about including the
sender fax number in the header?).

3) The number they sent from is probably a fax broadcast server which
doesn't accept incoming faxes.

4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is
illegal.

There are legal methods of combatting junk faxes.  They may not all
work, but neither will what you proposed, and at least the other
methods aren't against the law.

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by z0rba~the~gee » Wed, 02 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Hi .... Please see http://www.junkfaxes.org - & Thank U



>> What is the current law/regulations regarding unsolicited faxes?

>It's in the TCPA, Telephone Consumer Protection Act on the www.fcc.gov
>web site.

>> We are getting lots of unwanted faxes.  This is a problem since they
>> tie up the fax machine and a waste of supplies.

>We're starting to get them too.  They have a 800 number to remove your
>fax from their list, and I've done it acouple times.  But then the faxes
>start coming from another number, like they sold their list to someone
>else.

>> I heard (don't know if true) that faxers are allowed one unsolicited
>> fax and you can tell them not to do it anymore.  But if true, that isn't
>> any good because lots of senders can send you only 'one' fax.

>That's not true.  Read the FCC stuff and do NOT take our word for it.

>> Many of the senders offer only a vague 800 number or even a toll number.
>> Frankly, we don't have time to deal with that, nor think we should
>> have to.  Besides, even if we called every one, it wouldn't stop.

>The FCC fined one company $85,000 for offenses after they had signed a
>consent order to cease faxspamming.  So there is some justice in the
>world.  Read the fcc stuff about it.

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Joe Schol » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Quote:>4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is illegal

How so?

Joe Scholz




> >find the number they are faxing from...get a length of fax paper (3
> >feet or so), and put a thick black line down the middle of it, for the
> >entire length.  Send it in the machine, and send it to the machine
> >that originally sent the fax.  When it's half way though the machine,
> >tape the ends together and let it run for a few hours..do it at night,
> >so noone notices :)

> 1) The number they sent from may be long-distance.

> 2) The number they sent from probably isn't represented properly in
> the fax header (that's illegal, but heck, so is the junk fax itself,
> so what makes you think they're obeying the law about including the
> sender fax number in the header?).

> 3) The number they sent from is probably a fax broadcast server which
> doesn't accept incoming faxes.

> 4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is
> illegal.

> There are legal methods of combatting junk faxes.  They may not all
> work, but neither will what you proposed, and at least the other
> methods aren't against the law.

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Floyd Davidso » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00



>>4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is illegal

>How so?

>Joe Scholz

It violates the law.

  Floyd



>> >find the number they are faxing from...get a length of fax paper (3
>> >feet or so), and put a thick black line down the middle of it, for the
>> >entire length.  Send it in the machine, and send it to the machine
>> >that originally sent the fax.  When it's half way though the machine,
>> >tape the ends together and let it run for a few hours..do it at night,
>> >so noone notices :)

>> 1) The number they sent from may be long-distance.

>> 2) The number they sent from probably isn't represented properly in
>> the fax header (that's illegal, but heck, so is the junk fax itself,
>> so what makes you think they're obeying the law about including the
>> sender fax number in the header?).

>> 3) The number they sent from is probably a fax broadcast server which
>> doesn't accept incoming faxes.

>> 4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is
>> illegal.

>> There are legal methods of combatting junk faxes.  They may not all
>> work, but neither will what you proposed, and at least the other
>> methods aren't against the law.

--

Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Alistair Ga » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00




>>>4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is illegal

>>How so?

>>Joe Scholz

>It violates the law.

>  Floyd

Who sez ya' cant lern nuffin from unsenet, jest look at the
abuv infomation packed post (summary: Aginst the law howcum?
Cause its illegal d00d!)

--
alistair
 Ah, Blackadder. Started talking to yourself, I see.
 Yes...it's the only way I can be assured of intelligent conversation.
   -- Melchett and Edmund : Potato

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Linc Madiso » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00




> > 4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested
> >    [faxing an infinite loop back to a fax spammer] is illegal

> How so?

It's telephone harrassment. If it's an interstate call or within the
District of Columbia, 47 USC 223 (a)(1)(C) or (E) could apply;
otherwise, a similar state law would apply.

Of course, the more obvious objection -- that it will do no good,
anyway -- still stands. Even if the fax spammer's number is legit, it's
probably an outbound-only fax broadcast machine.

 
 
 

current unsolicited fax law?

Post by Joe Schol » Mon, 07 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Thanks for the lame answer, Floyd.

Linc game me a real response.  You might try it sometime.

Thanks anyway.

Joe Scholz



> >>4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is illegal

> >How so?

> >Joe Scholz

> It violates the law.

>   Floyd



> >> >find the number they are faxing from...get a length of fax paper (3
> >> >feet or so), and put a thick black line down the middle of it, for the
> >> >entire length.  Send it in the machine, and send it to the machine
> >> >that originally sent the fax.  When it's half way though the machine,
> >> >tape the ends together and let it run for a few hours..do it at night,
> >> >so noone notices :)

> >> 1) The number they sent from may be long-distance.

> >> 2) The number they sent from probably isn't represented properly in
> >> the fax header (that's illegal, but heck, so is the junk fax itself,
> >> so what makes you think they're obeying the law about including the
> >> sender fax number in the header?).

> >> 3) The number they sent from is probably a fax broadcast server which
> >> doesn't accept incoming faxes.

> >> 4) Even if all of the above isn't true, what you've suggested is
> >> illegal.

> >> There are legal methods of combatting junk faxes.  They may not all
> >> work, but neither will what you proposed, and at least the other
> >> methods aren't against the law.

> --

> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

 
 
 

1. Unsolicited Automated Calling (was Re: Unsolicited FAX

IMHO, calling and then just hanging up if no agent is available ought
to be considered illegal nuisance calling, and the people who use
these devices in this manner should be prosecuted to the fullest
extent of the law.  After all, it is one thing to acidentally call
someone and then hang up (because you got a wrong number perhaps) -
it's rude to not apologize, but at least it's not illegal.  However,
the telemarketing scum are placing calls knowing full well in advance
that a certain significant percentage will end with the called party
being hung up on.  That is not accidental.  That is deliberate
harassment.

What these filthy scumbags may not appreciate is how upset a "hang-up"
call makes some people, especially elderly people who live alone.
Many elderly folks worry that it is a potential burgalar or rapist
calling to find out if anyone is home before they actualy come over
and do their dirty deed.  Thus a single "hang-up" call can result in a
night or two of lost sleep for the victim, as they lie awake worrying
at every noise they hear.  And even for those of us who are younger,
an unwanted phone call can be a real nuisance, especially if you jump
out of the shower or run in from outside to answer the phone, only to
hear the hangup "click".

I think devices of the type mentioned ought to be illegal to
manufacture, import, or sell in this country.  Any organization that
wants to telephone people (for whatever reason) ought to be willing to
pay for sufficient employees to listen to the unanswered rings and the
busy signals, if that's what it takes to avoid deliberately hanging up
on people.  I would even find it less offensive (note I said LESS
offensive) if the machine were programmed to deliver an automated
sales pitch whenever a live agent was not available -- at least that
way the called party would know that it wasn't an important call that
they missed, nor someone calling to determine whether anyone is home
for some evil purpose.  But it should not just hang up on people,
because that is extremely irritating to almost everyone, and more than
a little frightening to many.

Jack
(To reply via e-mail, please make the obvious midification to my e-mail
address.)

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