Cel shading

Cel shading

Post by Alex C?t » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:01:01



Hi there

Has anyone of you guys actually got pixel shading to look good? I
remember playing with it back in the DX7 days, but I haven't really
thought about using pixel shaders in combination with vertex shaders to
achieve cel shading. Last time I looked into it, I believe I was going
through a sample that came with the DX7 SDK (or maybe I got the sample
off of the Microsoft DX downloadables) that showed you a torus with a
variable level of "celness" (where the black outline was made thicker or
thinner)... And I do remember this technique (which I believe used
vertex shaders to set-up the alpha component to identify edges) had its
limitations.

Basically, if you'd be asked to develop a renderer with good support for
cel shading, would you be comfortable doing it if your target audience
was using middle-end PC's? (with 3D devices that don't necessarily
support pixel shaders)

I don't want to get too much into technique details here -- I *will* do
my homework -- I'm just trying to figure out if there were still
limitations to cel shading on PC's.

Thanks!
    - Alex

 
 
 

Cel shading

Post by Lee Sandber » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:06:04


Hi

Download nvidias effectsbrowser and ther effects. see the developer pages at
www.nvidia.com
they have cel shading and more with working code examples that looks really
good.
However I don't think they work with DX7 hardware. You need DX8 and DX8
hardware.
And some you need DX8.1 like the v1.4 pixel shaders that Radean 8500 cards
support.

/Lee Sandberg


Quote:> Hi there

> Has anyone of you guys actually got pixel shading to look good? I
> remember playing with it back in the DX7 days, but I haven't really
> thought about using pixel shaders in combination with vertex shaders to
> achieve cel shading. Last time I looked into it, I believe I was going
> through a sample that came with the DX7 SDK (or maybe I got the sample
> off of the Microsoft DX downloadables) that showed you a torus with a
> variable level of "celness" (where the black outline was made thicker or
> thinner)... And I do remember this technique (which I believe used
> vertex shaders to set-up the alpha component to identify edges) had its
> limitations.

> Basically, if you'd be asked to develop a renderer with good support for
> cel shading, would you be comfortable doing it if your target audience
> was using middle-end PC's? (with 3D devices that don't necessarily
> support pixel shaders)

> I don't want to get too much into technique details here -- I *will* do
> my homework -- I'm just trying to figure out if there were still
> limitations to cel shading on PC's.

> Thanks!
>     - Alex


 
 
 

Cel shading

Post by Alex C?t » Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:40:00


Thanks Lee, I'll do just that.

    - Alex


> Hi

> Download nvidias effectsbrowser and ther effects. see the developer pages at
> www.nvidia.com
> they have cel shading and more with working code examples that looks really
> good.
> However I don't think they work with DX7 hardware. You need DX8 and DX8
> hardware.
> And some you need DX8.1 like the v1.4 pixel shaders that Radean 8500 cards
> support.

> /Lee Sandberg



> > Hi there

> > Has anyone of you guys actually got pixel shading to look good? I
> > remember playing with it back in the DX7 days, but I haven't really
> > thought about using pixel shaders in combination with vertex shaders to
> > achieve cel shading. Last time I looked into it, I believe I was going
> > through a sample that came with the DX7 SDK (or maybe I got the sample
> > off of the Microsoft DX downloadables) that showed you a torus with a
> > variable level of "celness" (where the black outline was made thicker or
> > thinner)... And I do remember this technique (which I believe used
> > vertex shaders to set-up the alpha component to identify edges) had its
> > limitations.

> > Basically, if you'd be asked to develop a renderer with good support for
> > cel shading, would you be comfortable doing it if your target audience
> > was using middle-end PC's? (with 3D devices that don't necessarily
> > support pixel shaders)

> > I don't want to get too much into technique details here -- I *will* do
> > my homework -- I'm just trying to figure out if there were still
> > limitations to cel shading on PC's.

> > Thanks!
> >     - Alex

 
 
 

Cel shading

Post by Robert Bergkvis » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:12:19


I've played around with celshading (have a look at www.liquidfive.com, robs
diary).
Since I don't have a good gfx card (integrated sis630) and, frankly, most
cel shading techniques don't look to good I have had to experiment a lot,
and the best results this far has been a combination of shrinking the model
when drawing the body (the filled area) and using wide lines.

However, I just thought of a new approach which I'll explore further this
week, and if anything good comes out of it, I'll post the results (+docs and
source) sometime next week.

--
Regards
Robert Bergkvist [ Liquid5 ]
www.liquidfive.com


Quote:> Hi there

> Has anyone of you guys actually got pixel shading to look good? I
> remember playing with it back in the DX7 days, but I haven't really
> thought about using pixel shaders in combination with vertex shaders to
> achieve cel shading. Last time I looked into it, I believe I was going
> through a sample that came with the DX7 SDK (or maybe I got the sample
> off of the Microsoft DX downloadables) that showed you a torus with a
> variable level of "celness" (where the black outline was made thicker or
> thinner)... And I do remember this technique (which I believe used
> vertex shaders to set-up the alpha component to identify edges) had its
> limitations.

> Basically, if you'd be asked to develop a renderer with good support for
> cel shading, would you be comfortable doing it if your target audience
> was using middle-end PC's? (with 3D devices that don't necessarily
> support pixel shaders)

> I don't want to get too much into technique details here -- I *will* do
> my homework -- I'm just trying to figure out if there were still
> limitations to cel shading on PC's.

> Thanks!
>     - Alex

 
 
 

Cel shading

Post by Alex C?t » Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:32:58


Quote:> I've played around with celshading (have a look at www.liquidfive.com, robs
> diary).
> Since I don't have a good gfx card (integrated sis630) and, frankly, most
> cel shading techniques don't look to good I have had to experiment a lot,
> and the best results this far has been a combination of shrinking the model
> when drawing the body (the filled area) and using wide lines.

I don't think this approach would look too good with what we want to do. Our 3D
artist created a few "anime-style" characters, and he's adamant that cel shading
shouldn't only handle the outline.

Quote:> However, I just thought of a new approach which I'll explore further this
> week, and if anything good comes out of it, I'll post the results (+docs and
> source) sometime next week.

Let me know what you find!

    - Alex

 
 
 

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there any free (speech or beer) tools for creating cel shaded images?
(mac or unix preferrably..)  Any ideas on this being a future povray feature?

--
http://www.io.com/~jti

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