What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

Post by Brya » Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:25:38



I'm seeing framerate problems when I use high-res and multisampling on a
GeForce 4 Ti.  Nothing surprising there, except that it happens at very low
settings.

It only hits 60fps (<1000 triangles per frame, 2 textures, each 1024x1024
A8R8G8B8) when I run at 800x600, quincunx multisampling.

Anything above that it can't manage 60fps!

For a card that is supposed to be in the top few speed-wise, this surprised
me.  Is there anything I can do to find out exactly where the bottleneck is?
I'm assuming it must be on the card, as the only things I'm changing are
display res and multisampling settings.

Would overclocking help?  If so, any pointers on how to do it or more
importantly the pitfalls of doing it?

Bryan

 
 
 

What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

Post by Eyal Tele » Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:31:41


Things to try:

Reduce triangle sizes (reduces fill rate and memory bandwidth)

Reduce texture size (reduces bandwidth by making the cache more
effective) or convert to a compressed format.

Make sure your textures are in device memory. Minimise the number of
calls you use for drawing those 1000 triangles. (Although from what
you say it seems that the problem is in the bandwidth / fill rate
area, since changing resolution affects it.)

Overclocking isn't a solution for a developer. If you want to
overclock, there are many enthusiast sites that'd be happy to help you.

        Eyal


> I'm seeing framerate problems when I use high-res and multisampling on a
> GeForce 4 Ti.  Nothing surprising there, except that it happens at very low
> settings.

> It only hits 60fps (<1000 triangles per frame, 2 textures, each 1024x1024
> A8R8G8B8) when I run at 800x600, quincunx multisampling.

> Anything above that it can't manage 60fps!

> For a card that is supposed to be in the top few speed-wise, this surprised
> me.  Is there anything I can do to find out exactly where the bottleneck is?
> I'm assuming it must be on the card, as the only things I'm changing are
> display res and multisampling settings.

> Would overclocking help?  If so, any pointers on how to do it or more
> importantly the pitfalls of doing it?

> Bryan


 
 
 

What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

Post by Brya » Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:23:22



Quote:> Things to try:

> Reduce triangle sizes (reduces fill rate and memory bandwidth)

This would help identify the problem - just changing the camera FOV should
do it?

Quote:> Reduce texture size (reduces bandwidth by making the cache more
> effective) or convert to a compressed format.

The problem here is the target screen is 60" diagonal, so you see every
imperfection.  I was under the impression that compressed formats were
lossy.  Is there a "best format"?  The SDK doesn't go into much detail on
how the D3DX code does the compression.

Quote:> Make sure your textures are in device memory. Minimise the number of
> calls you use for drawing those 1000 triangles. (Although from what
> you say it seems that the problem is in the bandwidth / fill rate
> area, since changing resolution affects it.)

They're created in Managed memory, so they should end up on the card.  Most
frames have less than 10 batches of triangles.
Is this an ok number, or should I seek to reduce it further?

Quote:> Overclocking isn't a solution for a developer. If you want to
> overclock, there are many enthusiast sites that'd be happy to help you.

I'm developing for an embedded graphics solution - we supply the hardware
and software, so I'm in full control of the target platform (a lovely
position to be in!!).

Bryan

 
 
 

What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

Post by Eyal Tele » Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:27:22


Quote:>>Reduce triangle sizes (reduces fill rate and memory bandwidth)

> This would help identify the problem - just changing the camera FOV should
> do it?

I think so. Or move the camera back (better, I think).

Quote:>>Reduce texture size (reduces bandwidth by making the cache more
>>effective) or convert to a compressed format.

> The problem here is the target screen is 60" diagonal, so you see every
> imperfection.  I was under the impression that compressed formats were
> lossy.  Is there a "best format"?  The SDK doesn't go into much detail on
> how the D3DX code does the compression.

The compression is lossy. There is a loss inherent in the format (the
format is described in the docs) and a loss that comes from the
compression program used. You can use the DX texture tool, or one of
the various other tools available (from NVIDIA, ATI or elsewhere). I
can't tell you which one is best.

 From my experience the loss doesn't look too bad unless you have
details like thin lines that you want to keep. From my experience
you'd get more details for the same or less memory by using
compression and larger textures.

Quote:> They're created in Managed memory, so they should end up on the card.  Most
> frames have less than 10 batches of triangles.
> Is this an ok number, or should I seek to reduce it further?

Sounds fine.

Quote:>>Overclocking isn't a solution for a developer. If you want to
>>overclock, there are many enthusiast sites that'd be happy to help you.

> I'm developing for an embedded graphics solution - we supply the hardware
> and software, so I'm in full control of the target platform (a lovely
> position to be in!!).

Are you forced to use a 4200? I'd recommend using a more powerful card
  if that's necessary instead of going out of spec for a cheaper card.

        Eyal

 
 
 

What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

Post by Bryan Crota » Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:02:16


Quote:>  From my experience the loss doesn't look too bad unless you have
> details like thin lines that you want to keep. From my experience
> you'd get more details for the same or less memory by using
> compression and larger textures.

I'll try it and see what it looks like.

Quote:> Are you forced to use a 4200? I'd recommend using a more powerful card
>   if that's necessary instead of going out of spec for a cheaper card.

I'm currently using a Ti4400, and I have a Ti4800 here to try.  What's
available that's better in terms of fillrate?  I don't have the space (and
heat allowance), (or double the budget!) available for an FX card.

Bryan

 
 
 

What performance to expect on a GeForce4 Ti4400?

Post by Eyal Tele » Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:29:36


Quote:> I'm currently using a Ti4400, and I have a Ti4800 here to try.  What's
> available that's better in terms of fillrate?  I don't have the space (and
> heat allowance), (or double the budget!) available for an FX card.

Try a Radeon 9600 Pro. It shouldn't heat too much or cause you other
problems. Also in the GeForce FX range the 5600 Ultra should be faster
than the GeForce4 range but shouldn't suffer from the problems of the
higher end GeForce cards (in particular the 5800).

        Eyal

 
 
 

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