Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Post by David Alan Strov » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00



Hi

Look I used to use CorelDraw, in fact we used all the Corel Suite:
Draw, Photopaint and Ventura and any other *they threw in.
We were pretty good at using Corel: we knew how to get around the bugs
we knew what the packages could do etc.

Then two things happened. The guy who used to run the graphics
department where I work quit and I took over. At the same time
we were looking at moving to output on disk, rather than reflection
art. So we had to look at the programmes we were using.

We could get our laser printer to cope with Corel's problems, but
outputting files was a nightmare. We couldn't even get Ventura
to understand CorelDraw's files at times and used to just output
to different formats until one worked.

Quite frankly, given the bugs, the output problem was too much,
especially as we were about to make to move to taking the files
outside our system, and therefore out of our control, so they
could go through an imagesetter at the printer or service
bureau. Most printers/service bureaus said Corel generated files
wouldn't work. So, we tried a few and guess what - they didn't work!

My point is this: I don't care if CorelDraw can do the designing
for me - if the output won't work all the alleged features/ease
of use etc are not worth a pinch of shit and neither is the program.
We used Corel from versions 3 to 5. They couldn't get it right for 3
versions and I have no reason to believe they have suddenly got rid
of the problems.

I have always used PCs, I don't even know how to use a Mac (I find
the differences irritating) and the REALITY is that most of the
machines which rip my files are Macs. Complaining won't do any
good - what will do you some good is finding a solution, a way to
get your files to work.

We moved to Freehand (and Photoshop and Pagemaker). And what a
breath of fresh air it was. Now If I use CorelDraw I find it clunky
and absolutely hate the interface - I got my tools docked Corel
style when I opened Freehand 8 and immediately moved them to a
floating pallette like in FH7. I never have problems with output -
my files go off to the printer get put through his Mac and work
first time every time. All the Corel outputted files failed.

I remember the days when we used Corel products, I remember
rebuilding files, resetting the computer after yet another
application error, finding that something was wrong on a print
and trying to find a way around the problem as all the settings
were right, but these are just a bad memory. Imagine this: I
got rid of the Corel software we used and now I never have
problems with output (we output to 4 different printers running
different systems) my computer NEVER crashes, nor does Freehand
or any of the other programs. Bugs are few and far between and
there are fixes on the Macromedia web site, and they appear quickly.
If I can't work out how to do something I am on a Freehand mailing
list which, although it is not run by Macromedia, is monitored
by Macromedia tech staff. I have sent questions to this list
and received replies from the actual people who write and test the
program, usually within 24 hours. We only have to get an upgrade
every 18 months not a half-baked upgrade every year. Ever noticed
how Corel programs always have version numbers like 5.6753 whereas
in the whole life of FH7 there were only 2 patches to fix
problems. FH7 had a couple of larger problems (which, by the way,
didn't mean you couldn't output or use the program with confidence)
and Macromedia were notified - these problems were fixed in FH8.
I saw the same problems version after version in CorelDraw.

Enough is enough! I refuse to buy programs from a company that
continually sells me a product which doesn't work properly. Given
my previous experiences is it any surprise I have a bias against
Corel? My bias is based on bittersweet experience. Bitter experience
with Corel products and the sweet realisation that there is a
better way and that I should be able to buy products which mean
I can do my real job of running the graphics department of my
employer instead of chasing my tail with unnecessary computer
problems.

Do yourself a favour - get the demo of Freehand and try it out. It
takes a little adjusting but it is well worth it.

David Strover

 
 
 

Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Post by Gadge » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00


David Alan Strover wrote ...

Quote:>Look I used to use CorelDraw,
<->
>My point is this: I don't care if CorelDraw can do the designing
>for me - if the output won't work all the alleged features/ease
>of use etc are not worth a pinch of shit and neither is the program.
>We used Corel from versions 3 to 5. They couldn't get it right for 3
>versions and I have no reason to believe they have suddenly got rid
>of the problems.

I wouldn't say "suddenly", V8 is another 3 versions ahead of the last one
you used. You recommended trying the demo of the latest Freehand, why not
try the demo of the latest Draw ? Compare. I'm just suggesting that you only
chose which (or neither) once you find which *you* like better.

<->
This post demonstrates the main prejudice against Corel - Past versions have
tainted the views on future releases. I recommend that you treat the latest
version of Corel as if it came from a different company and ignore the past
termite mounds.  (If they've reached up to V8 and haven't gone belly up,
then they must be learning from their mistakes - It's just that there was a
lot of learning to be done :-)

Later

Gadget


 
 
 

Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Post by David Alan Strov » Tue, 11 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Yes I admit my prejudice openly. Past versions have tainted my views, but
so have more recent reports - all I hear is that it is still
just as bad. Now, you suggest that I ignore the past record of
the company which makes the program and treat the latest version
as if it came from a different company. Well, I happen to think
that, especially in software, the past recorn of the manufacturer
is vitally important. And, lets face it, it doesn't come from
another company - it's the same mob!

And lets look at the current release. They are already up to revision B
and look at the revision - 20MB. WOW that is a BIG revision file
isn't it. Must be a lot of problems to fix. So big you need 155MB
of disk space to install the revision. And look at some of the
problems mentioned in the readme file which describes the revision:

"drop shadow links not retained on open on page 2 or subsequent
document pages" Aah bits of the file dropping out - I remember that
problem but I haven't had it for a long time.

"Problems reading specific fill types has been addressed. Previously
fills would disappear . . ." Fills disappearing, that's nice!

"Extrude text feature now works properly with Type 1 fonts" Well
so it *y ought to.

"Layer information now updates properly when moving objects between
layers" You mean it didn't?

"Vectors in an eps are now seperating properly from trapwise" So now
the imagesetters will shit themselves a bit less with Corel file
will they?

"Service bureau profiler: page size and name now matches dimensions."
Well that's useful

Now what should I think? That this program, which requires a 20MB
revision, is stable and works properly?

But there's more: If I look at spending my employers money on
an expensive program I look at newsgroups to see what the users are
saying. A look at comp.graphics.apps.corel just reinforces my
prejudices. What do we find are the topics being discussed?
Adobe Type 1 fonts don't show up on CD7.
Corel 7 file corruption.
System fonts corrupting before my eyes (I liked that one!)
Draw and Photopaint file problems
Recover corrupt CD8 files
Hepl! - problem with corrupted CD7 files
Speed (lack of) with CD8
Re: Some objects don't appear when printing with Corel
Corel drops colours AGAIN

Just a sample of the problems posted to the NG.

Quite frankly I wouldn't let a program with so many problems
near my computer. I think stability is a key issue, and output
has to be reliable - every time

FH8 has no revisions to date, just one small patch for Win95
only. The FH NG has far less posts describing problems. FH8 does
not need 20MB of patch to make it function properly, oh, and they
didn't * up their help and tutorial files either.

I am biased because Corel products made my working life a *ing
misery. I monitor this newsgroup, when I have a little bit of
spare time, because it is so amusing watching people struggle
with the programs they spent good money on. I have no idea how Corel
stays afloat, maybe they have gullible customers.

Bye
David

 
 
 

Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Post by Gadge » Tue, 11 Aug 1998 04:00:00


Quote:David Alan Strover wrote...
>Yes I admit my prejudice openly.

Glad you're not trying to deny it :)

<-> A look at comp.graphics.apps.corel just reinforces my

Quote:>prejudices. What do we find are the topics being discussed?
>Adobe Type 1 fonts don't show up on CD7.
>Corel 7 file corruption.
>System fonts corrupting before my eyes (I liked that one!)
>Draw and Photopaint file problems
>Recover corrupt CD8 files
>Hepl! - problem with corrupted CD7 files
>Speed (lack of) with CD8
>Re: Some objects don't appear when printing with Corel
>Corel drops colours AGAIN

>Just a sample of the problems posted to the NG.

Nice sample. Some I note are put in by stirrers and I could probably pick
roughly the equivalent from any software Ng.
Most of the posts in this and the alt.Corel.graphics are along the lines of
"How do I...?" and most of the replies are helpful and informative.

<->

Quote:>I am biased because Corel products made my working life a *ing
>misery. I monitor this newsgroup, when I have a little bit of
>spare time, because it is so amusing watching people struggle
>with the programs they spent good money on. I have no idea how Corel
>stays afloat, maybe they have gullible customers.

Sorry to hear it - perhaps you should change your work place ? If you're not
happy at work that is.

I think the reason that these NG's get a lot of postings is that newbies
have picked up the package and want to get the best out of it. It is the
only package of it's kind that's not priced for an exclusive market. It is
also the only single package that allows smooth integration and editing of
both vector and bitmap images (unless anyone else can tell me of another).
It can also produce stunning images, graphics and designs. But so can all
the others.

"..spent good money on." I would say money well spent. If it was _that_ bad
a product, do you think that the company would still be afloat ?

At the end of the day, it is only a tool that people use to produce and
manipulate graphics. It depends on the person using the tool what comes out
the other end, what the tools can do only bares a small relevance to the
result.

Gadget

 
 
 

Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Post by L.T. Hanlo » Tue, 11 Aug 1998 04:00:00


<<  It is also the only single package that allows smooth integration and
editing of both vector and bitmap images (unless anyone else can tell me of
another). >>

Canvas 5 does both vector and bitmap, plus page layout -- and within the
same program. I have a couple of minor complaints about Canvas (it doesn't
open progressive JPEG files and the Windows version doesn't keep MS Word
type attributes intact), but overall, it's easy to learn and saves me
time -- especially if I'm using the application for an entire project, start
to finish.

Leigh Hanlon
Chicago, USA

 
 
 

Freehand vs Illustrator vs CorelDraw

Post by Thomas Geis » Sat, 22 Aug 1998 04:00:00


I can understand how you feel, but there is a fact I'd like to mention:

Photoshop costs about 2 1/2 times as much as the whole Corel-package (at
least here in Germany). And they have bugs that I really call bugs.

For instance Photoshop grabs memory like a hog and does not return it after
closing the respective files. To really get back your memory you have to
quit the software and restart it. For a so-called super professional
software I really have to wonder. Maybe they still suffer from this memory
allocation shit you can find on Macs?
And don't think Adobe remove their bugs in Patches or even from version to
version. This happened in V 4.0 and still happens in V 5.0.

Another one: on lots of machines Photoshop crashes very cleanly if it runs
out of memory. Very nice, if you then lose all your work done up to this
moment.

And at last a funny one: in the German version 4.0 they wrote a word wrong.
That's not very bad but they didn't release a fix for that (which would have
been very tiny) and they didn't fix it in the patch to 4.01. Whenever you
use the program you have this dumb misspelled word to look at.

Well, all that I want to tell you is: they all produce shit, even in the
very expensive pieces of software. Draw your only conclusion ... either this
is the way (software-) life is, or it is VERY sad that in software business
they can sell you what they want and do not go to jail for it, even after
they got your precious money.

I'd get fired for one single bit of shit they produce every day. Sad but
true ...

Have a great day!

--

FH Muenchen +++ FB 01 Architektur
Tel. 089 - 8 71 35 54 +++ Fax 089 - 87 13 90 94



Quote:>Yes I admit my prejudice openly. Past versions have tainted my views, but
>so have more recent reports - all I hear is that it is still
>just as bad. Now, you suggest that I ignore the past record of
>the company which makes the program and treat the latest version
>as if it came from a different company. Well, I happen to think
>that, especially in software, the past recorn of the manufacturer
>is vitally important. And, lets face it, it doesn't come from
>another company - it's the same mob!

Snip
Quote:>I am biased because Corel products made my working life a *ing
>misery. I monitor this newsgroup, when I have a little bit of
>spare time, because it is so amusing watching people struggle
>with the programs they spent good money on. I have no idea how Corel
>stays afloat, maybe they have gullible customers.

>Bye
>David

 
 
 

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