Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:14:08



Okay, I'm stumped.

I am maintaining a bunch of product literature based on a graphic
template designed by an outside agency. One of the elements of the
design is a graphic bullet that needs to stay in tight alignment to the
copy, and I'm having trouble figuring out a more efficient way to do
this than the manual positioning method I'm using now.

The bullet is a crescent constructed of a tinted circular disk with a
paper-colored disk in front of it and offset diagonally. Okay, that's
just a grouped PM object. I've thought about creating it in Illustrator
and linking it, but that's a lot of overhead.

The top of the bullet is supposed to sit 0p5 above the top of the text,
and the left edge of the bullet sits 0p6 to the left. Because of the
size of the graphic, this means that the white disk overlaps the text
and has to be placed behind the text. So I can't make this an inline
graphic.

The left alignment is easy, as this particular bulleted list always
occurs in the same horizontal location on the page. My problem is with
the vertical alignment. Each bullet item is a variable number of lines
on a 10 pt grid. The rest of the page is NOT on a 10 pt grid, so I don't
think I can invoke alignment to a grid. Can I?

What I've been doing is temporarily dragging a 0p5-high box to the top
of the text for an item (aligning by eye at 4x magnification), then
dragging a ruler line to the top of the box, then snapping the bullet up
to that line. This is TEDIOUS.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

Dick

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by emge » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:54:04



> The bullet is a crescent constructed of a tinted circular disk with a
> paper-colored disk in front of it and offset diagonally. Okay, that's
> just a grouped PM object. I've thought about creating it in Illustrator
> and linking it, but that's a lot of overhead.

> The top of the bullet is supposed to sit 0p5 above the top of the text,
> and the left edge of the bullet sits 0p6 to the left. Because of the
> size of the graphic, this means that the white disk overlaps the text
> and has to be placed behind the text. So I can't make this an inline
> graphic.

Have you tried using the PM object as an inline graphic but instead have
it alone on the previous line (i.e. a paragraph of its own) and having
the leading for that paragraph set at 0 points?

That would put it 'behind' the text and it would look like it was on the
same line as the following text.

I know what I mean, just might not have explained it well :)

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Jay Chevak » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:06:28


The only thing off hand would be paste multiple
Z (number of lines of text) times 10p
or setting up a grid of 10p in the grid manager if you can stand all those
lines

"The rest of the page is NOT on a 10 pt grid, so I don't
think I can invoke alignment to a grid. Can I?
Not with overlapping inline graphics, but pagemaker can have multiple "align
to grids", but they are not locked to the page like Qxp or ID, they are
relative to the starting paragraph.

I would go for the illustrator overhead or 1bit tiff if you can getaway with
it.
Jay

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:40:35



> Have you tried using the PM object as an inline graphic but instead have
> it alone on the previous line (i.e. a paragraph of its own) and having
> the leading for that paragraph set at 0 points?

> That would put it 'behind' the text and it would look like it was on the
> same line as the following text.

> I know what I mean, just might not have explained it well :)

Okay, I'm confused. Why would this put the graphic "behind" the text on
the following line? Understand that the vertical extent of the graphic
begins five points above the cap height, but it extends down below the
cap height. Inline graphics force the leading of the line they are on to
the full dimension of the graphic. If I push the baseline down, it
pushes down the next line of text.

Can you explain what I'm misunderstanding about your suggestion?

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:50:19



> The only thing off hand would be paste multiple
> Z (number of lines of text) times 10p
> or setting up a grid of 10p in the grid manager if you can stand all those
> lines

Paste Multiple! Yes. That might do the trick. Shoulda thought of that.
So I've got bullet number 1 in its fixed position (pretty much constant
unless the particular page has something funky going on with the overall
layout, but, in any case, just one bullet to position). I copy it, and
then I Paste Multiple a single copy with, say, a 5p0 vertical offset (60
points). That would work. Thanks for the suggestion, Jay.

Quote:

> I would go for the illustrator overhead or 1bit tiff if you can getaway with
> it.

Can't do a 1-bit tiff, I don't think. I'm printing to a CMYK laser
printer, and the color of the graphic is CMYK. So if I had a 1-bit tiff
and selected my CMYK color for it, would it print in that color? Or
would it just print black? (I'm not at work right now, so I can't test
this.) Also, as this is a vector shape, I think I probably get a sharper
rendition the way I'm doing it (not really sure, at 600 dpi). As for
Illustrator, I don't think it gains me anything here. My issue isn't the
shape, it's the precise placement relative to type.
 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Jay Chevak » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:11:56


I hope the paste multiple works, and have lots of fun counting the lines :)P

Quote:

> Can't do a 1-bit tiff, I don't think. I'm printing to a CMYK laser
> printer, and the color of the graphic is CMYK. So if I had a 1-bit tiff
> and selected my CMYK color for it, would it print in that color? Or
> would it just print black? (I'm not at work right now, so I can't test
> this.) Also, as this is a vector shape, I think I probably get a sharper
> rendition the way I'm doing it (not really sure, at 600 dpi). As for
> Illustrator, I don't think it gains me anything here. My issue isn't the
> shape, it's the precise placement relative to type.

I don't know about color laser printers, but 1bits colorized in pagemaker
print to separations just fine (I use 900dpi to be on the safe side). If you
can eliminate the white circle underneath the text you can use it as an
inline graphic.
Jay
 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:41:20


Gordon,

I'm game. Point me to a resource that will get me started writing my
first script. I'm gonna be maintaining these documents for a long time,
so the investment in the script is worth it.

Dick


> Just a thought but if it has to be done regularly, it could be
> scripted. It would take some thought in the first place but once
> achieved would be just two clicks each time -- or even applied
> automatically to paragraphs with a specific style.



>>Okay, I'm stumped.

>>I am maintaining a bunch of product literature based on a graphic
>>template designed by an outside agency. One of the elements of the
>>design is a graphic bullet that needs to stay in tight alignment to the
>>copy, and I'm having trouble figuring out a more efficient way to do
>>this than the manual positioning method I'm using now.

>>The bullet is a crescent constructed of a tinted circular disk with a
>>paper-colored disk in front of it and offset diagonally. Okay, that's
>>just a grouped PM object. I've thought about creating it in Illustrator
>>and linking it, but that's a lot of overhead.

>>The top of the bullet is supposed to sit 0p5 above the top of the text,
>>and the left edge of the bullet sits 0p6 to the left. Because of the
>>size of the graphic, this means that the white disk overlaps the text
>>and has to be placed behind the text. So I can't make this an inline
>>graphic.

>>The left alignment is easy, as this particular bulleted list always
>>occurs in the same horizontal location on the page. My problem is with
>>the vertical alignment. Each bullet item is a variable number of lines
>>on a 10 pt grid. The rest of the page is NOT on a 10 pt grid, so I don't
>>think I can invoke alignment to a grid. Can I?

>>What I've been doing is temporarily dragging a 0p5-high box to the top
>>of the text for an item (aligning by eye at 4x magnification), then
>>dragging a ruler line to the top of the box, then snapping the bullet up
>>to that line. This is TEDIOUS.

>>Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

>>Dick

> --
> Gordon Woolf
> The Worsley Press <www.worsleypress.com>
> Publishers of "Newspaper Production using PageMaker 6.5"

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Neil Goul » Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:19:12


Hi,



> > I would go for the illustrator overhead or 1bit tiff if you can
getaway with
> > it.

> Can't do a 1-bit tiff, I don't think. I'm printing to a CMYK laser
> printer, and the color of the graphic is CMYK. So if I had a 1-bit
tiff
> and selected my CMYK color for it, would it print in that color? Or
> would it just print black? (I'm not at work right now, so I can't test
> this.) Also, as this is a vector shape, I think I probably get a
sharper
> rendition the way I'm doing it (not really sure, at 600 dpi). As for
> Illustrator, I don't think it gains me anything here. My issue isn't
the
> shape, it's the precise placement relative to type.

Perhaps I misunderstood your problem with the graphic,*. I thought
that your woes were caused by the paper-colored portion covering your
text? If so, then doing the graphic in Illustrator should solve the
problem, as you could draw it as a crescent, which would leave the
portion which overlaps your text blank, instead of a solid paper color
which masks the copy. What am I missing here?

Regards,

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.veryComputer.com/
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Jim Dornb » Fri, 08 Feb 2002 06:54:02



>>>The top of the bullet is supposed to sit 0p5 above the top of the text,
>>>and the left edge of the bullet sits 0p6 to the left. Because of the
>>>size of the graphic, this means that the white disk overlaps the text
>>>and has to be placed behind the text. So I can't make this an inline
>>>graphic.

Not so. Add a pm-drawn rectangle sized appropriately, and use it to Mask your graphic - getting rid
of the white-filled circle that gets in the way of your type.

Also, inline graphics default to auto-leading... but you can select it and change it to whatever
leading you want. I think I'd lean towards keeping a properly masked, leaded version of this critter
off on the paste board, ready to be copied and pasted into your text as needed - as an inline
graphic.

Jim
*This is called "Spam of the day". Hitting "reply by email"
*will direct your message to the most recent junkmailer to
*invade my mailbox. If you'd like to reach me by email,
*combine the username dornbos with my ISP cris.com.

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:35:31


Neil,

You're not missing anything. Drawing it as a crescent would allow the
graphic to be in the same layer as the type, instead of in the layer
behind it. However it still wouldn't allow the graphic to be used
in-line, because the crescent has to tuck in over the top of the initial
cap, which an in-line graphic can't do AFAIK. So the Paste Multiple
solution (or any script that Gordon can help me put together) is
sufficient, and the overhead of linking in AI or EPS files is avoided. I
tried the Paste Multiple solution today, and it worked fine, by the way.
So I'm all set for now.

Thanks,

Dick


> Hi,



>>>I would go for the illustrator overhead or 1bit tiff if you can

> getaway with

>>>it.

>>Can't do a 1-bit tiff, I don't think. I'm printing to a CMYK laser
>>printer, and the color of the graphic is CMYK. So if I had a 1-bit

> tiff

>>and selected my CMYK color for it, would it print in that color? Or
>>would it just print black? (I'm not at work right now, so I can't test
>>this.) Also, as this is a vector shape, I think I probably get a

> sharper

>>rendition the way I'm doing it (not really sure, at 600 dpi). As for
>>Illustrator, I don't think it gains me anything here. My issue isn't

> the

>>shape, it's the precise placement relative to type.

> Perhaps I misunderstood your problem with the graphic,*. I thought
> that your woes were caused by the paper-colored portion covering your
> text? If so, then doing the graphic in Illustrator should solve the
> problem, as you could draw it as a crescent, which would leave the
> portion which overlaps your text blank, instead of a solid paper color
> which masks the copy. What am I missing here?

> Regards,

> --
> Neil Gould
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>      Terra Tu AV   http://www.veryComputer.com/
>      Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:39:25


Jim,

I'm not sure I follow you (guess I have to look up masking, another
feature I've never had occasion to use in mumble-* years of PM'ing).
Is this going to give me a graphic with a non-rectangular boundary that
can kern over the initial cap?

Dick



>>>>The top of the bullet is supposed to sit 0p5 above the top of the text,
>>>>and the left edge of the bullet sits 0p6 to the left. Because of the
>>>>size of the graphic, this means that the white disk overlaps the text
>>>>and has to be placed behind the text. So I can't make this an inline
>>>>graphic.

> Not so. Add a pm-drawn rectangle sized appropriately, and use it to Mask your graphic - getting rid
> of the white-filled circle that gets in the way of your type.

> Also, inline graphics default to auto-leading... but you can select it and change it to whatever
> leading you want. I think I'd lean towards keeping a properly masked, leaded version of this critter
> off on the paste board, ready to be copied and pasted into your text as needed - as an inline
> graphic.

> Jim
> *This is called "Spam of the day". Hitting "reply by email"
> *will direct your message to the most recent junkmailer to
> *invade my mailbox. If you'd like to reach me by email,
> *combine the username dornbos with my ISP cris.com.

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Helmut P. Einfal » Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:24:50



Quote:>However it still wouldn't allow the graphic to be used
>in-line, because the crescent has to tuck in over the top of the
initial
>cap, which an in-line graphic can't do AFAIK.

Kerning does the trick, as it does many tricks (ever created diacritical
marks in a font that doesn't have them natively?). However, for multiple
instances this would again call for a script, else you'd kern vourself
to death...

Helmut
--
Brought to you by IBM PS/2 power

 
 
 

Suggestion needed: keeping graphic bullet with text

Post by Dick Marguli » Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:52:17


Thanks, Gordon. I'll install this tomorrow.

Dick




>>The bullet is a crescent constructed of a tinted circular disk with a
>>paper-colored disk in front of it and offset diagonally. Okay, that's
>>just a grouped PM object. I've thought about creating it in Illustrator
>>and linking it, but that's a lot of overhead.

> This script should do it:

> The measurements below are in inches but as long as the same
> measurement is applied throughout the script, it'll work. Note that
> points can cause problems so it is best to convert points to inches or
> millimetres.

> discwidth = 0.112
> moveleft = 0.085
> moveup = 0.07
> secondleft = 0.073
> secondup = 0.058
> mycolor = "Cyan"

> GetTextCursor >> mycursor
> GetTextLocation >> ..., ..., ..., xTop, yTop, ...
> DeSelect
> --the following  is one line
> Oval (xTop-moveleft), (yTop-moveup), (xTop -moveleft+discwidth),
> (yTop-moveup+discwidth)
> --one line ends
> color mycolor
> GetSelectIDList >> ...,firstdisc,...
> --the following is one line
> Oval (xTop-secondleft), (yTop-secondup), (xTop -secondleft+discwidth),
> (yTop-secondup+discwidth)
> --one line ends
> GetSelectIDList >> ...,seconddisc,...
> color "Paper"
> SelectID firstdisc
> SelectIDExtend seconddisc
> Group
> SendToBack
> SetTextCursor mycursor
> TextCursor +para
> return

> --
> Gordon Woolf
> The Worsley Press <www.worsleypress.com>
> Publishers of "Newspaper Production using PageMaker 6.5"

 
 
 

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--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"(...)To beer or not to beer, it's a great question"
           "HAMLET"  William Shakesbeer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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