DTP Independent Contractor question

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Jane Krate Dud » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:56:29



Thanks for the clarification, Marek. Now, if they can only add the double underline
(what kind of page layout program leaves out a double underline???)...

Cheers,
Jane




> >>What is "Power Paste"?

> >It is the PM feature that allows you to paste a copy in the exact location as the
> >original. In PM65, you power paste with the keystrokes ctrl-alt-V (cmd-opt-V on
> >the Mac, I believe). Very handy for masking, creating drop shadow type effects,
> >and other functions. Much quicker than "Paste Multiple." And many of us, myself
> >included, use it many times a day. I would consider the lack of a power paste
> >option to be a real wrench in my work(flow)s.

> Oh, you can do that in InDesign. It's the same shortcut command, or
> you can do it from the menu with Edit -> Paste in Place. I think it
> was added in version 1.5. Perhaps you missed it because it is not
> called "Power paste." (But then, I couldn't find "Power paste" in my
> PageMaker manual either.)

> I think there is a direct duplication feature in InDesign too, that
> makes a copy of something in the same location without copying to the
> clipboard first. But I don't know how you do it. I just remember
> reading references in the manual to "duplicating objects" with one of
> the tools.

> Don't reply to the e-mail address in the header. It's bogus. But
> I read the newsgroup every day so post here.

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Helpful Harr » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:18:02




> Thanks for the clarification, Marek. Now, if they can only add the double
> underline
> (what kind of page layout program leaves out a double underline???)...

> Cheers,
> Jane

I haven't tried InDesign yet, but can't you just do two single
underlines and change the leading to "scrunch" them together??

Not as easy I know, but it should be a reasonable work-around.

Helpful Harry                  
"Just trying to help whenever I can."      :o)

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by David M Rowel » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:36:20


I'm in the process of evaluating the two different products, to be used to
publish a non-fiction book.

I like InDesign, BUT BUT BUT

It doesn't support tables of contents or indexes!!!!!!

(Please tell me I'm wrong......)

This is a completely fatal flaw for book publishing.

<sigh>



> >Rumor from the Adobe employee grapevine has it that PageMaker is
> >slated to become the Adobe "MS Publisher", slanted toward home and
> >small office use, in an effort to promote InDesign for high-end
> >commercial use.

> It is not rumor. Adobe has stated this publicly.

> >InDesign needs a lot of work, if this is the case.

> You think PageMaker is better suited for high-end commercial use? Why?
> what features in PageMaker do you find lacking in InDesign?

> Don't reply to the e-mail address in the header. It's bogus. But
> I read the newsgroup every day so post here.

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Neil Goul » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:38:58


Hi all,


Quote:> I'm in the process of evaluating the two different products, to be
used to
> publish a non-fiction book.

> I like InDesign, BUT BUT BUT

> It doesn't support tables of contents or indexes!!!!!!

> (Please tell me I'm wrong......)

> This is a completely fatal flaw for book publishing.

Well, you're not _completely_ wrong!  8-)

TOC and indexes are handled by 3rd-party plug-ins in InDesign. Why? I'm
not sure. Framemaker has excellent TOC and indexing capability, but
lacks the sophisticated typography that InDesign has. Then again, the
Framemaker community would not tolerate the overhead associated with
InDesign's sophistication.

Pagemaker's TOC and indexing is very rudimentary, and only slightly
better than the abominable Adobe Table application in functionality. So,
if you are serious about book publishing, buy the plug-in for InDesign
(see Adobe's site for details), and you'll have the absolute best tools
for such work.

Best regards,

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.terratu.com
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Elmo P. Shagnast » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:55:46




Quote:> TOC and indexes are handled by 3rd-party plug-ins in InDesign. Why? I'm
> not sure.

Because virtually everything InDesign does is handled by a plug-in, even
its basic functions.

And the third party market has proven itself to be robust in this
regard.  Adobe admits that it doesn't know everything and lets others
build the better mousetraps.

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Jay Chevak » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:21:23


">

Quote:> I haven't tried InDesign yet, but can't you just do two single
> underlines and change the leading to "scrunch" them together??

> Not as easy I know, but it should be a reasonable work-around.

You can use paragraph rule above, and paragraph rule below and play with the
offset, but I don't think that this is a reasonable work around
 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Jay Chevak » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:36:12


Quote:> It really surprises me that so many features can be left out of a
> current-day layout application. Ventura has had the ability to do
> multiple rules since version 1.1, circa 1986 or so. If I were in your
> position, I'd take a look at that app for your annual reports if you use
> a PC. Unfortunately, there isn't a Mac or *nix version of that app.

I do use a PC for some of my work, but I live on an Island that is very Mac
(and Quark) dominated,  getting Pagemaker documents outputted can be a pain,
and Indesign was difficult. I think I have a copy of ventura 4 floating
around in the office, I will check it out, but I don't think I will be able
to get it output to film.

Jay

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Marek Willia » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 02:12:53



internet:

Quote:>Do you have any more info on Indesign's table function? Coloring cells
>doesn't impress, main menu item does, but what about tabs within cells, or
>underline capabilities?

No, sorry I don't.

Personally I hope it has double-underline ability. Not needed often,
but when you do financial tables, nothing else will do. And I would
love to see the ability to adjust the thickness of the underline and
distance from the baseline, la Ventura. And if I could make an
underline that would automatically move over descenders, I would just
about wet my pants.

--
Don't reply to the e-mail address in the header. It's bogus. But
I read the newsgroup every day so post here.

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Neil Goul » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 03:16:10


Hi Jay,


Quote:> > It really surprises me that so many features can be left out of a
> > current-day layout application. Ventura has had the ability to do
> > multiple rules since version 1.1, circa 1986 or so. If I were in
your
> > position, I'd take a look at that app for your annual reports if you
use
> > a PC. Unfortunately, there isn't a Mac or *nix version of that app.

> I do use a PC for some of my work, but I live on an Island that is
very Mac
> (and Quark) dominated,  getting Pagemaker documents outputted can be a
pain,
> and Indesign was difficult. I think I have a copy of ventura 4
floating
> around in the office, I will check it out, but I don't think I will be
able
> to get it output to film.

It shouldn't be a problem, if you create PDF files from your output.
And, that only requires Acrobat Distiller. Ventura 4 is a good
application, but AFAIK it only runs under Win3.x and perhaps NT 3.5.
But, having that would qualify you for an upgrade to VP 8, which is a
fantastic layout application.

FWIW, I _never_ send native files for output. Of course, in my niche,
the reason is simple: few pre-press workers have the technical
background needed to even evaluate the output, much less make revisions.
So, it saves everyone a lot of time, grief and money if they *can't* do
anything with the files.

Best regards,

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.terratu.com
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Sher » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 02:31:44



> I don't like dealing with Xante that much either. I just can't remember why.

Well, Google will have to do until I find a decent newserver :-)

About Xant...I've already emailed this to Peggy, but thought perhaps
this would be of interest to the people here who might be considering
a purchase from this company.

The following is an actual letter I wrote to Xant. Thought you might
find it interesting:

June 18, 1998

Xant Technical Support
4621 Springhill Avenue
Mobil, AL 36608
Attn.: August

Dear August,

Please find enclosed several samples of both the Myriad 2 plates as
well as copies run from these plates, as per requested. I have marked
the first and last run so that you can see the degradation of the
plates over the short run.

Since you indicated over our last phone conversation that our numerous
tech support files have disappeared, here is a little history:

Over the past couple years, our Xant PlateMaker experience has been
full of disappointments. Missed deadlines, rush charges due to
negatives and metal plates having to be run at the last minute because
the PlateMaker couldn't hold a simple 70 line screen, downtime due to
waiting for new parts, new improved toner...new and improved plate
materials...the list goes on.

In this time we have had visits from Xant and Myriad
technicians...our printer's ROM replaced, the daughterboard replaced,
two fuser assemblies replaced, and we are on our third printer and
rapidly approaching the end of this last printer's warranty.

This printer has never functioned to the specifications given when we
purchased it and we feel we have been more than patient. I have
personally spoken to several representatives and managers from Xant,
including: Pat , Karen, Buddy, Gary Casper, Rita, Maura, Debra Delay,
Wanda, Christy and now you. Since repeated calls from myself  to your
Technical Support Department (starting less than a month after
purchasing the PlateMaker unit)  have done nothing to correct our
original complaint to your company, we have turned to our corporate
headquarters to help us resolve this issue once and for all.

All we ask is a unit that will perform as Xant said the PlateMaker
would.

Sincerely,

Sherry Willet
Prepress Manager

CC:    Ray Truluck, Owner, PIP Printing #476
    Ben Fretti, PIP Corporate

    enclosures
    SLW/rp

=============

As a postscript (hehe) I also have a database (in filemaker pro) if
anyone is interested in an emailed copy... It shows a DETAILED service
log I kept for Xant because I got tired of them "losing" my service
information and "closing out" my complaint files. It shows the
complete incompetence of the company and just how far they will go to
avoid admitting that their product was *to begin with.

I'd like to add that we continued to have problems and finally gave up
trying. The printer is now a glorified 8,000 dollar fax machine that
takes 200.00 dollar toner cartridges.

Based on all this... I wouldn't buy another Xant product if I had a
100% off coupon.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

"Because your image, your money, & your satisfaction are on the
line... "
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by David M Rowel » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 05:34:11


Thanks for the two - and fast, helpful - answers to my earlier
question/complaint.

A follow up question, if I may.

I checked on the Adobe site and noticed both a commercial plug-in (for
$280 - ouch!) and also some free scripts to give indexing and table of
contents functionality for InDesign.

My question - has anyone used both the script and the commercial plug in,
and can they comment on whether it is worth spending the $280 or not.

Many thanks for any further guidance.

David.

ps :  I feel a bit awkward posting about InDesign in the Pagemaker
newsgroup.  Is there a better newsgroup?





> > TOC and indexes are handled by 3rd-party plug-ins in InDesign. Why? I'm
> > not sure.

> Because virtually everything InDesign does is handled by a plug-in, even
> its basic functions.

> And the third party market has proven itself to be robust in this
> regard.  Adobe admits that it doesn't know everything and lets others
> build the better mousetraps.

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Dick Marguli » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 05:47:23



> ps :  I feel a bit awkward posting about InDesign in the Pagemaker
> newsgroup.  Is there a better newsgroup?

There are several better newsgroups. But probably not for your purpose
;-)
 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Jay Chevak » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:01:28


Quote:

> It shouldn't be a problem, if you create PDF files from your output.
> And, that only requires Acrobat Distiller. Ventura 4 is a good
> application, but AFAIK it only runs under Win3.x and perhaps NT 3.5.
> But, having that would qualify you for an upgrade to VP 8, which is a
> fantastic layout application.

Very slow month at work so I installed 4.2 (On a win98 machine)  It
installed Ok. and I played around alittle, but was really thrown by the
clunky Interface. The only manual I could find was for ventura 5, Seems my
predecessor walked off with a few items.

Quote:> FWIW, I _never_ send native files for output. Of course, in my niche,
> the reason is simple: few pre-press workers have the technical
> background needed to even evaluate the output, much less make revisions.
> So, it saves everyone a lot of time, grief and money if they *can't* do
> anything with the files.

My situation is the opposite. My clients are constantly making changes, up
to and beyond the last possible minute, these are people who two person
proof the bluelines, and get into arguments about grammar. I live in Puerto
Rico and we do alot of these type of jobs with a printer in Miami,  I have
to send native files so we can fax up some of the last changes. We are
constantly pushing our printer for faster turnaround times, so I try to make
it as easy as I can for him, which in this case is quark on a mac.

Jay

 
 
 

DTP Independent Contractor question

Post by Marek Willia » Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:48:27



internet:

Quote:>I haven't tried InDesign yet, but can't you just do two single
>underlines and change the leading to "scrunch" them together??

>Not as easy I know, but it should be a reasonable work-around.

A simpler workaround would be to use the = sign, then scrunch up the
tracking so the spaces between the characters are eliminated. Then you
need to adjust the leading for only one line.

In fact, the double underline is really an "equals" sign. Remember,
its use in typesetting is under the final total figure in financial
columns. That's how its use started out hundreds of years ago.

--
Don't reply to the e-mail address in the header. It's bogus. But
I read the newsgroup every day so post here.