EPS spot colour won't separate

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Frank Jon » Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:21:47



Hi all,

I'm working on a 2-colour magazine which contains a 2 colour sponsor's
logo on each page, originally created in Corel Draw 9, and exported as
an EPS. The spot colour is Pantone 158.

Upon importing into PM6, Pantone 158 appears in the colour palette and
can be applied to other objects, text etc.

However, when generating a PS file for output (and checking by PDF'ing
the result) the P158 in the logo does not appear on the P158 plate
(although all other objects assigned this colour within PM6 - text,
lines, bitmap & greyscale images - do separate correctly).

Any ideas why this might happen, and any suggestions for a workaround
would be *very* welcome as I've spent the best part of a day trying
various tests without success. Is it a known problem with PM6 or is it
the EPS files generated with Corel Draw?

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Neil Goul » Sat, 06 Oct 2001 21:34:23


Hi,


> I'm working on a 2-colour magazine which contains a 2 colour sponsor's
> logo on each page, originally created in Corel Draw 9, and exported as
> an EPS. The spot colour is Pantone 158.

From your description, the logo is the culprit. Check the Pantone names
of the color in both CorelDraw and Pagemaker. One may be CV, while the
other is CVC, for example. Also, CorelDraw is notorious for generating
questionable EPS files. If you don't have Illustrator, you can pick up
one of the image conversion utilities that will allow you to redefine &
rebuild the EPS files to be compatible with Adobe apps.

Hope this helps.

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.terratu.com
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Frank Jon » Sat, 06 Oct 2001 22:08:36




>Hi,


>> I'm working on a 2-colour magazine which contains a 2 colour sponsor's
>> logo on each page, originally created in Corel Draw 9, and exported as
>> an EPS. The spot colour is Pantone 158.

>From your description, the logo is the culprit. Check the Pantone names
>of the color in both CorelDraw and Pagemaker. One may be CV, while the
>other is CVC, for example.

No, Pantone names are identical -- the Pantone name only ever got into
Pagemaker when the file was imported.

Quote:>Also, CorelDraw is notorious for generating questionable EPS files.

Yes, I had suspected that, but I don't have Illustrator or anything
else to verify the problem. Process colours have never previously been
a problem though.

I know someone who uses Illustrator/Mac who owes me a favour or two...

Quote:>If you don't have Illustrator, you can pick up
>one of the image conversion utilities that will allow you to redefine &
>rebuild the EPS files to be compatible with Adobe apps.

This would probably be the best solution for the odd few times the
situation may arise. What utilities can do this?

Quote:>Hope this helps.

Thanks for your quick reply, and pointing me in the right direction.
 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by SCG » Sat, 06 Oct 2001 22:47:29


How did you create the PDF? Does this happen with every eps created from
Draw 9? If you like send me the eps and I will have a look at it.

scg


Quote:> Hi all,

> I'm working on a 2-colour magazine which contains a 2 colour sponsor's
> logo on each page, originally created in Corel Draw 9, and exported as
> an EPS. The spot colour is Pantone 158.

> Upon importing into PM6, Pantone 158 appears in the colour palette and
> can be applied to other objects, text etc.

> However, when generating a PS file for output (and checking by PDF'ing
> the result) the P158 in the logo does not appear on the P158 plate
> (although all other objects assigned this colour within PM6 - text,
> lines, bitmap & greyscale images - do separate correctly).

> Any ideas why this might happen, and any suggestions for a workaround
> would be *very* welcome as I've spent the best part of a day trying
> various tests without success. Is it a known problem with PM6 or is it
> the EPS files generated with Corel Draw?

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Neil Goul » Sun, 07 Oct 2001 02:32:37


Hi,



> >Also, CorelDraw is notorious for generating questionable EPS files.

> Yes, I had suspected that, but I don't have Illustrator or anything
> else to verify the problem. Process colours have never previously been
> a problem though.

Since you've eliminated the color name as a possible problem, that only
leaves one possibility... it's the EPS code. With CorelDraw, that can be
a hit and miss situation, so previous success doesn't guarantee a
problem-free future.

Quote:> I know someone who uses Illustrator/Mac who owes me a favour or two...

> >If you don't have Illustrator, you can pick up
> >one of the image conversion utilities that will allow you to redefine
&
> >rebuild the EPS files to be compatible with Adobe apps.

> This would probably be the best solution for the odd few times the
> situation may arise. What utilities can do this?

 I don't know what you budget is, so the best thing that I can recommend
is that you do a web search. Some of the utilities that I've bought cost
more than Illustrator, others are free, and you can imagine that there
is a bit of a difference in capabilities. I don't know of any single
utility that will *always* work with *all* files, so be prepared to
build up your tool box.

Regards,

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.terratu.com
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by emge » Sun, 07 Oct 2001 04:01:40



> Process colours have never previously been
> a problem though.

So are you saying that the logo is 2 colour but the PMS158 is set as
cmyk?

What happens if you run out lasers of ALL separations in Pagemaker?

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Mike Kell » Sun, 07 Oct 2001 19:21:09


Hi Frank

I personally have never had problems with CorelDRAW 9 and the EPS is generates.
I think early (pre version 7) CD were flaky, but not now.

I would go back to CorelDRAW and have another look at that graphic and make
sure that there isn't anything in it that shouldn't be there and try
re-exporting it etc.

Good luck
Mike

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Frank Jon » Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:55:56




>Hi,


>> I'm working on a 2-colour magazine which contains a 2 colour sponsor's
>> logo on each page, originally created in Corel Draw 9, and exported as
>> an EPS. The spot colour is Pantone 158.

>From your description, the logo is the culprit. Check the Pantone names
>of the color in both CorelDraw and Pagemaker. One may be CV, while the
>other is CVC, for example. Also, CorelDraw is notorious for generating
>questionable EPS files. If you don't have Illustrator, you can pick up
>one of the image conversion utilities that will allow you to redefine &
>rebuild the EPS files to be compatible with Adobe apps.

>Hope this helps.

OK, thanks to everyone's help in both this NG and the Corel NG, I
think I've isolated the problem... Corel Draw is the culprit, and to
some extent so is Distiller.

A reader on the Corel NG pointed me to the Jaws PDF Creator demo - I
tried that and everything works perfectly. I also 'borrowed' a copy of
Illustrator... and the results were interesting here, too.

Here's a summary of my testing, reproduced here for the benefit of
anyone else who is having the same problem. Comments welcome! And
thanks for everyone's help too.

-----------------------

1. In Corel Draw, draw 2 rectangles. Assign a black outline to each.

2. Fill one with a Pantone colour e.g. Pantone 158.

3. Fill the other with a 50% tint of the same colour.

4. Export to EPS.

5. Place into PageMaker and print separations to a PS file; turn page
info on and reduce to fit.

6. Distil the PS file with Acrobat Distiller 3.02 - no Pantone 158 on
the Pantone 158 plate!! Black prints as expected, nothing on C, M or Y
plates as expected.

7. Print the separated file to a PS printer - prints as expected.

8. Distil with Jaws PDF Creator demo - prints as expected.

=> Problem with Acrobat Distiller 3.0.

===

From step 3:

4a. Export to Adobe Illustrator.

5a. Open in Illustrator. Show the Color palette.

6a. Click on the rectangle with 50% Pantone 158. Move the slider bar
in the Color palette to 100% (thus making the 2 rectangles
theoretically the same colour). Note that the Pantone colours of each
rectangle in the colour swatch in the Color pallette appear visibly
different.

7a. Save as Illustrator EPS. Place into PageMaker. Tints appear as TWO
different colours (Pantone 158 and Pantone 158| 1).

Note: All problems disappear if Pantone colour and its 50% tint are
re-assigned in Illustrator, and the file is exported as EPS and placed
in PageMaker.

=> Problem with EPS and AI export from Corel Draw.

===========

Conclusion: When saving an EPS or AI file with spot colours Corel Draw
generates faulty Postscript code which is incompatible with both
Distiller and Illustrator.

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Neil Goul » Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:18:10


Hi,

Thanks for your test results, as it confirms a couple of things about
the way CorelDraw created the PostScript code. I'd like to point out a
couple of misleading notions that you've introduced, though.


> Here's a summary of my testing, reproduced here for the benefit of
> anyone else who is having the same problem. Comments welcome! And
> thanks for everyone's help too.

(snip)
Quote:

> 8. Distil with Jaws PDF Creator demo - prints as expected.

> => Problem with Acrobat Distiller 3.0.

Not true. The issue is that Jaws understands the screwed up PostScript
code (the name of the Pantone color, as below), and corrected it. This
is not a good situation, as if you deliver the source files with the
original logo drawing for final output, it _will_ eror out on the
imagesetter. Acrivat handled the file correctly, and dropped the bogus
portion of the code. It could be worse!

Quote:> 7a. Save as Illustrator EPS. Place into PageMaker. Tints appear as TWO
> different colours (Pantone 158 and Pantone 158| 1).

This clarifies the problem exactly. There is no such color as Pantone
158/ 1. What has happened is that Illustrator understood that there were
two colors in the EPS file, and gave an arbitrary name to one of them
(158/ 1) in order to open the file.

Quote:> Conclusion: When saving an EPS or AI file with spot colours Corel Draw
> generates faulty Postscript code which is incompatible with both
> Distiller and Illustrator.

I fully agree with your final conclusion. It should also be noted that
Illustrator and Distiller are the "gold standard" for EPS and PostScript
compatibility. In fact, .EPS is Illustrator's native file format. Since
Pagemaker generates its own PostScript code, all elements must be valid
to get valid resutls. Therefore, if you have a problem with Pagemaker
output, verifying the EPS files used with one of these applications can
save you a lot of headaches.

Thanks again for taking the time to present your findings!

Best regards,

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.terratu.com
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Mike Kell » Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:55:15


Hello

I have followed this thread and tried the same experiment with CorelDRAW 9, but
with Pagemaker 7 and Distiller 5, with the same results, which, as pointed out
does indicate a CorelDRAW/Postscript problem.

However, printing the CorelDRAW to file, distilling etc does result in a
correct PDF.

So...does that mean maybe it is more of a compatiblity issue with CorelDRAW-EPS
& Pagemaker than a faulty postscript in CorelDRAW?

Just curious,
Mike

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Neil Goul » Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:26:54


Hi,


> I have followed this thread and tried the same experiment with
CorelDRAW 9, but
> with Pagemaker 7 and Distiller 5, with the same results, which, as
pointed out
> does indicate a CorelDRAW/Postscript problem.

> However, printing the CorelDRAW to file, distilling etc does result in
a
> correct PDF.

> So...does that mean maybe it is more of a compatiblity issue with
CorelDRAW-EPS
> & Pagemaker than a faulty postscript in CorelDRAW?

> Just curious

That's a logical deduction, Unfortunately, there is only one way to test
that notion, and it would be a cumbersome task.

Keep in mind that "EPS" stands for Encapsulated _PostScript_. There is
little difference between an EPS file and a PostScript file. The primary
differences are that the PostScript file is more complex, containing
page size and device-specific information in addition to the image
information.

So, while it is possible that the PostScript output via print-to-file
and Distill is better than EPS export (from any app, for that matter),
I'd be very surprised if the PostScript is flawless if the EPS functions
are flawed.

Best regards,

--
Neil Gould
----------------------------------------------------------------
     Terra Tu AV   http://www.terratu.com
     Technical Graphics & Media

 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by JGM » Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:33:57


If it is a two color document you may have an out...

Create the document using two process colors, say magenta and black...

Then print it how you want it to come out.

This ugly trick works for to press documents



Quote:>Hi all,

>I'm working on a 2-colour magazine which contains a 2 colour sponsor's
>logo on each page, originally created in Corel Draw 9, and exported as
>an EPS. The spot colour is Pantone 158.

>Upon importing into PM6, Pantone 158 appears in the colour palette and
>can be applied to other objects, text etc.

>However, when generating a PS file for output (and checking by PDF'ing
>the result) the P158 in the logo does not appear on the P158 plate
>(although all other objects assigned this colour within PM6 - text,
>lines, bitmap & greyscale images - do separate correctly).

>Any ideas why this might happen, and any suggestions for a workaround
>would be *very* welcome as I've spent the best part of a day trying
>various tests without success. Is it a known problem with PM6 or is it
>the EPS files generated with Corel Draw?

________________________________________
Please remove anti-spam stuff from my adx.
 
 
 

EPS spot colour won't separate

Post by Bob Roa » Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:20:12


I've never had this trouble that you desribe, and I have work for
years with a lot of CorelDraw EPS/PageMaker combos. Right now, I'm
using CDraw v.8, and Distiller 4.

One of the big reasons we upgraded to Distiller 4 was that ver 3 had
very limited and unreliable spot colour support.

Anyhow, when I tried your tests with my combo, I did not experience
problems with 'new' swatch names in AI, PM or the separated Acrobat
files, that you described. Everything worked as expected.

Now I do know that there were some extensive patches released for
CDraw 9 so you might want to start there.

-BR

 
 
 

1. Spot-colors in EPS from PM 65 separates in CMYK

Why oh why would you want to create ads in PM or Quark for export to EPS
anyway?
I would rather use Illustrator. It is far more capable and designed for
this sort of thing. ON the rare occasion that I have needed to convert a
previous piece into an EPS for use somewhere else, I have not had the color
problem you refer to.
Are you sure you are using the correct color model in the color specs in
PM?



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