How to Manage Color for Creating PDF from PM?

How to Manage Color for Creating PDF from PM?

Post by Brian » Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:37:11



My CMYK TIF images (photos) converted from RGB format in Photoshop look good
(match the original RGB versions closely onscreen) when viewed both in
Photoshop, WinXP picture previewer, and also in a Pagemaker document when I
have CMS turned on in Pagemaker and using the US-SwopCoated CMYK color
profile settings as in Photoshop.
However, when I try to export to a PDF and then view the document in Acrobat
Reader, the colors are way off - very dark and with color shifts, like
viewing the CMYK-converted images in any non-color managed software which
only renders RBG images to look normal.  Is it possible to create a PDF from
these CMYK images that can be viewed with normal looking colors?  Or must I
recreate the Pagemaker document using RGB versions of the images to create a
normal looking PDF?
I noticed that the PDF distiller setup presented in the dialog when using
the "Export to PDF" feature of Pagemaker has various options for Color
Management, but the ones I've tried to change don't seem to make much
difference - they all look bad.  Also, the resolution of the images in the
created PDF seems rather poor.
How do people export a PM document being prepared in CMYK for commercial
printing to create a simple image that can be viewed by others as a sample
using ordinary software for previewing on the web or by email?  Is there a
way to avoid having to create two separate documents, in RGB and CMYK
versions?  That's a real pain, as the solid colors always seem to require
some tweaking to get a close approximation between the two.
Any advice would be appreciated,
Thanks,
-Brian
 
 
 

How to Manage Color for Creating PDF from PM?

Post by Kenneth Rylan » Sun, 15 Jun 2003 03:54:28


Brian,

I do not use PS for images, but I suspect that your original conversion from
RGB to CMYK has out-of-gamut colors. I often use TIFF's in magazine covers
that have been converted from RGB to CMYK. I will explain what I do in Corel
PhotoPaint to avoid the color shifts that can occur between RGB and CMYK.
I'm sure PS has something similar, so just take the principal and apply it
to Photoshop.

The first thing I do is make sure that the Color Management System is on in
the application in Corel PhotoPaint. I then set the out-of-gamut alarm to a
bright color (usually green). This immediately shows me what colors will
print properly and which ones will shift on printing. As a general rule,
when the CMS is on and I convert from RGB to CMYK, CorelPP will make the
right color adjustments, and I don't have to do anything with the image.
Occasionally, an area of the image will show up in bright green--indicating
that the color is out-of-gamut. At that point I can make some minor
adjustments in the color/contrast/brightness of the image, and the problem
goes away. I save the image as a CMYK TIFF, and put it into PM. If the image
is good at the source, then I never have a problem with the PDF file. So
far, my printer, my customer, and I have been happy with the results.

Hope this helps.

Ken Ryland


Quote:> My CMYK TIF images (photos) converted from RGB format in Photoshop look
good
> (match the original RGB versions closely onscreen) when viewed both in
> Photoshop, WinXP picture previewer, and also in a Pagemaker document when
I
> have CMS turned on in Pagemaker and using the US-SwopCoated CMYK color
> profile settings as in Photoshop.
> However, when I try to export to a PDF and then view the document in
Acrobat
> Reader, the colors are way off - very dark and with color shifts, like
> viewing the CMYK-converted images in any non-color managed software which
> only renders RBG images to look normal.  Is it possible to create a PDF
from
> these CMYK images that can be viewed with normal looking colors?  Or must
I
> recreate the Pagemaker document using RGB versions of the images to create
a
> normal looking PDF?
> I noticed that the PDF distiller setup presented in the dialog when using
> the "Export to PDF" feature of Pagemaker has various options for Color
> Management, but the ones I've tried to change don't seem to make much
> difference - they all look bad.  Also, the resolution of the images in the
> created PDF seems rather poor.
> How do people export a PM document being prepared in CMYK for commercial
> printing to create a simple image that can be viewed by others as a sample
> using ordinary software for previewing on the web or by email?  Is there a
> way to avoid having to create two separate documents, in RGB and CMYK
> versions?  That's a real pain, as the solid colors always seem to require
> some tweaking to get a close approximation between the two.
> Any advice would be appreciated,
> Thanks,
> -Brian


 
 
 

How to Manage Color for Creating PDF from PM?

Post by Brian » Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:30:37


Thanks for your input, Ken, but I don't think that's the problem.
I have color management set up properly I think, and turned on in both PS
and PM, and PS also has the same type of on-screen proofing you described
for out of gamut colors that highlights any RBG colors that are out of CYMK
gamut before conversion from RGB to CMYK (mine is set for bright pink).
Then it automatically brings all colors into gamut when converting to CMYK.
The images look good in both PS and PM after conversion, and both are using
color management, but should they also look good in the exported PDF when
viewed in Acrobat Reader?  Of course, the CMYK converted image looks bad if
I turn off color management, but that's to be expected, right?  I'm
wondering if that's also the case when viewing a CMYK document in Acrobat
Viewer.  I don't see where Acrobat has any color management settings.  But I
surely don't want to have any surprises when I sent my document off to the
printer.
If what I'm seeing is unusualy, then I'm wondering if my previous
installation of the free PDF995 program for creating PDF's could be
interfering somehow - I already had that installed before I got Pagemaker
with the distiller.  Or maybe it's just the way I'm using the export to PDF
function.
Thanks,  -Brian


> Brian,

> I do not use PS for images, but I suspect that your original conversion
from
> RGB to CMYK has out-of-gamut colors. I often use TIFF's in magazine covers
> that have been converted from RGB to CMYK. I will explain what I do in
Corel
> PhotoPaint to avoid the color shifts that can occur between RGB and CMYK.
> I'm sure PS has something similar, so just take the principal and apply it
> to Photoshop.

> The first thing I do is make sure that the Color Management System is on
in
> the application in Corel PhotoPaint. I then set the out-of-gamut alarm to
a
> bright color (usually green). This immediately shows me what colors will
> print properly and which ones will shift on printing. As a general rule,
> when the CMS is on and I convert from RGB to CMYK, CorelPP will make the
> right color adjustments, and I don't have to do anything with the image.
> Occasionally, an area of the image will show up in bright
green--indicating
> that the color is out-of-gamut. At that point I can make some minor
> adjustments in the color/contrast/brightness of the image, and the problem
> goes away. I save the image as a CMYK TIFF, and put it into PM. If the
image
> is good at the source, then I never have a problem with the PDF file. So
> far, my printer, my customer, and I have been happy with the results.

> Hope this helps.

> Ken Ryland



> > My CMYK TIF images (photos) converted from RGB format in Photoshop look
> good
> > (match the original RGB versions closely onscreen) when viewed both in
> > Photoshop, WinXP picture previewer, and also in a Pagemaker document
when
> I
> > have CMS turned on in Pagemaker and using the US-SwopCoated CMYK color
> > profile settings as in Photoshop.
> > However, when I try to export to a PDF and then view the document in
> Acrobat
> > Reader, the colors are way off - very dark and with color shifts, like
> > viewing the CMYK-converted images in any non-color managed software
which
> > only renders RBG images to look normal.  Is it possible to create a PDF
> from
> > these CMYK images that can be viewed with normal looking colors?  Or
must
> I
> > recreate the Pagemaker document using RGB versions of the images to
create
> a
> > normal looking PDF?
> > I noticed that the PDF distiller setup presented in the dialog when
using
> > the "Export to PDF" feature of Pagemaker has various options for Color
> > Management, but the ones I've tried to change don't seem to make much
> > difference - they all look bad.  Also, the resolution of the images in
the
> > created PDF seems rather poor.
> > How do people export a PM document being prepared in CMYK for commercial
> > printing to create a simple image that can be viewed by others as a
sample
> > using ordinary software for previewing on the web or by email?  Is there
a
> > way to avoid having to create two separate documents, in RGB and CMYK
> > versions?  That's a real pain, as the solid colors always seem to
require
> > some tweaking to get a close approximation between the two.
> > Any advice would be appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > -Brian

 
 
 

How to Manage Color for Creating PDF from PM?

Post by Brian » Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:39:04


Well, I may have found the answer...
When I turned off color management in PM (which makes the colors of images
look way off on my screen), it creates a PDF with normal looking colors.   I
have to turn color management back on to get normal looking colors on my
screen, but then it creates PDF's with the bad colors.  I'm not sure why it
behaves this way, but at least I have a solution to the problem.
-Brian


Quote:> My CMYK TIF images (photos) converted from RGB format in Photoshop look
good
> (match the original RGB versions closely onscreen) when viewed both in
> Photoshop, WinXP picture previewer, and also in a Pagemaker document when
I
> have CMS turned on in Pagemaker and using the US-SwopCoated CMYK color
> profile settings as in Photoshop.
> However, when I try to export to a PDF and then view the document in
Acrobat
> Reader, the colors are way off - very dark and with color shifts, like
> viewing the CMYK-converted images in any non-color managed software which
> only renders RBG images to look normal.  Is it possible to create a PDF
from
> these CMYK images that can be viewed with normal looking colors?  Or must
I
> recreate the Pagemaker document using RGB versions of the images to create
a
> normal looking PDF?
> I noticed that the PDF distiller setup presented in the dialog when using
> the "Export to PDF" feature of Pagemaker has various options for Color
> Management, but the ones I've tried to change don't seem to make much
> difference - they all look bad.  Also, the resolution of the images in the
> created PDF seems rather poor.
> How do people export a PM document being prepared in CMYK for commercial
> printing to create a simple image that can be viewed by others as a sample
> using ordinary software for previewing on the web or by email?  Is there a
> way to avoid having to create two separate documents, in RGB and CMYK
> versions?  That's a real pain, as the solid colors always seem to require
> some tweaking to get a close approximation between the two.
> Any advice would be appreciated,
> Thanks,
> -Brian

 
 
 

How to Manage Color for Creating PDF from PM?

Post by Brian » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:07:57


Still, it makes me wonder whether I have color management improperly
configured, or if this is the way things are supposed to work when importing
a CMYK image into PM.  I'm not sure if the image has an embedded profile
from PS or not, but maybe that makes a difference.
-BrianZ



> Well, I may have found the answer...
> When I turned off color management in PM (which makes the colors of images
> look way off on my screen), it creates a PDF with normal looking colors.
I
> have to turn color management back on to get normal looking colors on my
> screen, but then it creates PDF's with the bad colors.  I'm not sure why
it
> behaves this way, but at least I have a solution to the problem.
> -Brian



> > My CMYK TIF images (photos) converted from RGB format in Photoshop look
> good
> > (match the original RGB versions closely onscreen) when viewed both in
> > Photoshop, WinXP picture previewer, and also in a Pagemaker document
when
> I
> > have CMS turned on in Pagemaker and using the US-SwopCoated CMYK color
> > profile settings as in Photoshop.
> > However, when I try to export to a PDF and then view the document in
> Acrobat
> > Reader, the colors are way off - very dark and with color shifts, like
> > viewing the CMYK-converted images in any non-color managed software
which
> > only renders RBG images to look normal.  Is it possible to create a PDF
> from
> > these CMYK images that can be viewed with normal looking colors?  Or
must
> I
> > recreate the Pagemaker document using RGB versions of the images to
create
> a
> > normal looking PDF?
> > I noticed that the PDF distiller setup presented in the dialog when
using
> > the "Export to PDF" feature of Pagemaker has various options for Color
> > Management, but the ones I've tried to change don't seem to make much
> > difference - they all look bad.  Also, the resolution of the images in
the
> > created PDF seems rather poor.
> > How do people export a PM document being prepared in CMYK for commercial
> > printing to create a simple image that can be viewed by others as a
sample
> > using ordinary software for previewing on the web or by email?  Is there
a
> > way to avoid having to create two separate documents, in RGB and CMYK
> > versions?  That's a real pain, as the solid colors always seem to
require
> > some tweaking to get a close approximation between the two.
> > Any advice would be appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > -Brian

 
 
 

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