Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by Brett Grime » Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:00:00



To All:
        Can anyone tell me how to get a an SGI-compiled OpenGL program to
display successfully on a Sun system?

I get the following error:

 Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ...

Is it a matter of buying the runtime libraries from Template Graphics or
Portable Graphics? If it is, can anyone recommend one over the other? I
have seen a lot of messages in favor of TGS.

The idea is to avoid the budget-busting cost of the Sun OpenGL
development libraries from TGS or PG.
(~ $5K! Talk about sticking it to the customer while you can!)

On a related note, does anyone have any SOLID information on Sun's plans
to support OpenGL on their "lesser" platforms. I know that they support
it on the new Ultra Creator 3D niche platform, but what all the other
older platforms?

The last information I heard was that Sun planned to have native OpenGL
support for non-Creator platforms by mid-summer '97. I later heard that
this would only be run-time libraries, so there will still not be true
OpenGL development libraries native to the older Sun platforms.

Before any TGS or PG fanatics jump all over this, let me explain. SGI
provides the OpenGL DEVELOPMENT libraries for about $800 with support
for ALL platforms newer than the 4D/20 (made what? 12-15 years ago?).
This means that about 99% of the still usable systems have OpenGL
support, PLUS support for HARDWARE ACCELERATION. How many of Sun's
graphics boards do TGS and PG support? Maybe half from what I can tell
from their spec sheets. And all for a bargain price of 6 TIMES the price
of SGI's native OpenGL.

It's enough to make you start thinking of collusion. Sun has an
opportunity to take over the Sun OpenGL market by providing an OpenGL
library that will support their hardware at a lower cost. TGS and PG
would have to cut prices and improve their products or else abandon the
market. Why doesn't Sun do this? How can TGS and PG continue to
overprice their products? Does anyone care? Or is everyone moving to
SGIs or MS/NT platforms? Is Sun going to lose all of their technical
market share and content themselves with creating transaction servers
for the business and financial markets? Is there anyone with a vision of
the 3D market at Sun? Why is the sky blue? (Just checking to see if
you're still paying attention.) And the most important question; Can
anyone explain all this?

Regards,

Brett Grimes
--
                #################################
                Brett Grimes
                Sr. Software Engineer        ASEC

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by David Konerdi » Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:00:00



>To All:
>    Can anyone tell me how to get a an SGI-compiled OpenGL program to
>display successfully on a Sun system?

>I get the following error:

> Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ...

>Is it a matter of buying the runtime libraries from Template Graphics or
>Portable Graphics? If it is, can anyone recommend one over the other? I
>have seen a lot of messages in favor of TGS.

>The idea is to avoid the budget-busting cost of the Sun OpenGL
>development libraries from TGS or PG.
>(~ $5K! Talk about sticking it to the customer while you can!)

One possibility is to compile Mesa shared object libraries (the .so files)
on your SGI, use _RLD_PATH to instruct the dynamic loader to use the
MesaGL libraries in lieu of the SGI OpenGL libraries.  This should allow
you to display GL apps on your Sun since Mesa converts OpenGL calls into X
window calls (sorta) meaning the Sun itself would not require an X server
that support OpenGL.

An SGI engineer pointed out that Mesa does not handle double-buffering well
over the network.

One questions for the OpenGL gurus out there: would it be possible to write a
user-level (root-privileged) app that ran on the X server CPU, seperately from
the X server, which listened to the OpenGL port, converting all the openGL calls
to X window calls locally?  If such an app could be written, then building the
Mesa libraries on the SGI end would be unecessary; all the OpenGL->X window conversion
would get done on the Xserver end.

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by David McAlliste » Wed, 30 Oct 1996 04:00:00



> To All:
>         Can anyone tell me how to get a an SGI-compiled OpenGL program to
> display successfully on a Sun system?

> I get the following error:

>  Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ...

Another gotcha, once you get a server with GLX in it, is that you have
to be endian-careful when exporting the display. X extensions have to
implement two code paths for incoming protocol requests. One for
native-endian and one for opposite-endian. Until the GLX extension
becomes mature on a platform, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get
around to implementing the swap-bytes code paths. I've heard of problems
like this between SGI and Linux boxes, and between DEC Alpha and Sun
boxes, for example.

--
DaveMc
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~mcallisd
Netscape*blinkingEnabled: False

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by Ralf Helbin » Wed, 30 Oct 1996 04:00:00



> let me explain. SGI provides the OpenGL DEVELOPMENT libraries

OOPS.  SGI gives you the development option for extra cost.  This
includes the C/C++ compilers, performance tools and header files.
There are no development libraries.

Quote:> Is there anyone with a vision of the 3D market at Sun?

I don't think so, maybe those who had left SUN long ago.

Ralf
--
____________________________________________________________________________
"Hey, stop feeding my bride."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralf Helbing,    University of Magdeburg,     Department of Computer Science
39106 Magdeburg, UniPlatz 2                         Phone: +49 0391 67-12024
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by Blair MacIntyr » Thu, 31 Oct 1996 04:00:00




> > Is there anyone with a vision of the 3D market at Sun?

> I don't think so, maybe those who had left SUN long ago.

Ah, yes, the gross generalization of the uninformed.  Don't let
Michel Deering here you say that ... :-)

There are people that have a vision of the 3D market at Sun.  Ever
heard of the Creator3D?  For pure polygon performance (shaded, not
textured) it is faster than anything else I've used (including the Max
Impact from SGI -- not the Infinite Reality, but then I don't have one
of those yet).

There are rumors of even better boards due out from sun soon, and they
sound awesome.

--

smail: Dept. of Computer Science, 1214 Amsterdam Ave, Mail Code 0401
       Columbia University, New York, NY 10027-7003

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by Blair MacIntyr » Thu, 31 Oct 1996 04:00:00



> >         Can anyone tell me how to get a an SGI-compiled OpenGL program to
> > display successfully on a Sun system?

> > I get the following error:

> >  Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ...

> Another gotcha, once you get a server with GLX in it, is that you have
> to be endian-careful when exporting the display. X extensions have to
> implement two code paths for incoming protocol requests. One for
> native-endian and one for opposite-endian. Until the GLX extension
> becomes mature on a platform, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get
> around to implementing the swap-bytes code paths. I've heard of problems
> like this between SGI and Linux boxes, and between DEC Alpha and Sun
> boxes, for example.

Huh?

How about a more obvious explaination:  you have to be running an X
Server that supports OpenGL and GLX.  Right now, that generally means
using a Creator3D and having Suns OpenGL installed.

It works.  I use it between our Indigo2 MaxImpact and our Creator3D.

--

smail: Dept. of Computer Science, 1214 Amsterdam Ave, Mail Code 0401
       Columbia University, New York, NY 10027-7003

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by Andy Vespe » Fri, 01 Nov 1996 04:00:00



> Another gotcha, once you get a server with GLX in it, is that you have
> to be endian-careful when exporting the display. X extensions have to
> implement two code paths for incoming protocol requests. One for
> native-endian and one for opposite-endian. Until the GLX extension
> becomes mature on a platform, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get
> around to implementing the swap-bytes code paths. I've heard of problems
> like this between SGI and Linux boxes, and between DEC Alpha and Sun
> boxes, for example.

The ARB has sponsored 'inter-operability' sessions in the past,
and of course most vendors will test at least occasionally against
other architectures.

Be sure to report these bugs to the vendor who supplies the server;
all byte swapping is done in the server. Except for X11 images,
which are re-formatted on the client side.
--
Andy V (A Digital spoke, not a Digital Spokesperson)

 
 
 

Q: GLX extensions for Sun

Post by Shane Arno » Tue, 05 Nov 1996 04:00:00


: >
: > To All:
: >         Can anyone tell me how to get a an SGI-compiled OpenGL program to
: > display successfully on a Sun system?
: >
: > I get the following error:
: >
: >  Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ...

: Another gotcha, once you get a server with GLX in it, is that you have
: to be endian-careful when exporting the display. X extensions have to
: implement two code paths for incoming protocol requests. One for
: native-endian and one for opposite-endian. Until the GLX extension
: becomes mature on a platform, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get
: around to implementing the swap-bytes code paths. I've heard of problems
: like this between SGI and Linux boxes, and between DEC Alpha and Sun
: boxes, for example.

        Hmmm, this is very interesting.

        I originally did all my development on an Indigo 2, and I can
        display on a Sun Ultra and DEC boxes with standard GLX extensions
        no worries.

        Obviously you cannot run OpenGL remote on a system without the GLX
        extension, but ALL systems (with GLX) I have tried this on (incl. HP's and
        a hacked up eXceed extension on the PC) displayed no worries
        for simple OpenGL.

        Things like overlays don't transport all that well, as you would
        expect.

        But I feel GLX is a good standard (aslong as the DBE is stable)

: --
: DaveMc
: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~mcallisd
: Netscape*blinkingEnabled: False

--
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1. Q: GLX extensions for Sun

To All:
        Can anyone tell me how to get a an SGI-compiled OpenGL program to
display successfully on a Sun system?

I get the following error:

 Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ...

Is it a matter of buying the runtime libraries from Template Graphics or
Portable Graphics? If it is, can anyone recommend one over the other? I
have seen a lot of messages in favor of TGS.

The idea is to avoid the budget-busting cost of the Sun OpenGL
development libraries from TGS or PG.
(~ $5K! Talk about sticking it to the customer while you can!)

On a related note, does anyone have any SOLID information on Sun's plans
to support OpenGL on their "lesser" platforms. I know that they support
it on the new Ultra Creator 3D niche platform, but what all the other
older platforms?

The last information I heard was that Sun planned to have native OpenGL
support for non-Creator platforms by mid-summer '97. I later heard that
this would only be run-time libraries, so there will still not be true
OpenGL development libraries native to the older Sun platforms.

Before any TGS or PG fanatics jump all over this, let me explain. SGI
provides the OpenGL DEVELOPMENT libraries for about $800 with support
for ALL platforms newer than the 4D/20 (made what? 12-15 years ago?).
This means that about 99% of the still usable systems have OpenGL
support, PLUS support for HARDWARE ACCELERATION. How many of Sun's
graphics boards do TGS and PG support? Maybe half from what I can tell
from their spec sheets. And all for a bargain price of 6 TIMES the price
of SGI's native OpenGL.

It's enough to make you start thinking of collusion. Sun has an
opportunity to take over the Sun OpenGL market by providing an OpenGL
library that will support their hardware at a lower cost. TGS and PG
would have to cut prices and improve their products or else abandon the
market. Why doesn't Sun do this? How can TGS and PG continue to
overprice their products? Does anyone care? Or is everyone moving to
SGIs or MS/NT platforms? Is Sun going to lose all of their technical
market share and content themselves with creating transaction servers
for the business and financial markets? Is there anyone with a vision of
the 3D market at Sun? Why is the sky blue? (Just checking to see if
you're still paying attention.) And the most important question; Can
anyone explain all this?

Regards,

Brett Grimes
--
                #################################
                Brett Grimes
                Sr. Software Engineer        ASEC

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