SCSI to RAID IDE?!

SCSI to RAID IDE?!

Post by Alex B » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



I've got two SCSI drives in a server.  For reasons well beyond my control, a
four drive Promise IDE RAID needs to be the new boot drives... Is there any
way to move the files over without a complete reinstall.

Do you think it's better to convince people that a different plan might be
better?  They need the mirroring/spanning in the RAID for data integrity and
right now the two SCSI drives just run as individual drives... Do you think
it would be better to move the files off the second SCSI drive and then set
it up as a NT mirrored RAID with the other SCSI drive?  I think their main
concern is data integrity, so if that's possible I bet I could sell them on
the plan.  (They're still going to need the IDE RAID for storage, I bet)

 
 
 

SCSI to RAID IDE?!

Post by Mal Osborn » Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:08:29


IMHO you are far better of with SCSI and NT's software raid, than IDE based
hardware RAID.  Assuming that the two current drives are identical, and you
just need some more space, I would look at installing a pair of new SCSI
drives as a mirror set, transferring the data from your current "data"
drive, and then creating a mirror form the two original drives.  A new pair
of SCSI drives will probably cost a little more than the Promise controller
and 4 IDE drives, but would perform far better.

--
Mal Osborne
MCSE Mensa

** Note New Email Address! **


Quote:> I've got two SCSI drives in a server.  For reasons well beyond my control,
a
> four drive Promise IDE RAID needs to be the new boot drives... Is there
any
> way to move the files over without a complete reinstall.

> Do you think it's better to convince people that a different plan might be
> better?  They need the mirroring/spanning in the RAID for data integrity
and
> right now the two SCSI drives just run as individual drives... Do you
think
> it would be better to move the files off the second SCSI drive and then
set
> it up as a NT mirrored RAID with the other SCSI drive?  I think their main
> concern is data integrity, so if that's possible I bet I could sell them
on
> the plan.  (They're still going to need the IDE RAID for storage, I bet)


 
 
 

SCSI to RAID IDE?!

Post by Graham Payto » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


I agree with Mals' suggestion.

I love the Promise RAID controllers and would advise anyone with IDE to get
one.

However, you already have SCSI and to then get IDE would be a big backward
step.

The only drawback is that you cannot boot directly from a mirror disk
created using NTs software fault tolerance.  (This is something to bear in
mind as it kind of defeats the object of mirroring the disk in my opinion.)

It is possible to do so with a bit of fuss.  Check out a previous post from
Chris Funk in this newsgroup on 16/08/2000.  There is a great reply from
Larry Struckmeyer which lists all the relevant MS docs you will need to read
about booting from an NT software mirror.

If your two SCSI disks are big enough to cope with everything you want to do
then make the mirror.  If possible though try and spend the money put aside
for the IDE stuff on a hardware SCSI RAID card.  Adaptec make a good single
channel PCI card.  I believe that Mylex also make a very good card, but I
have no experience with this one.  As long as you don't live in the UK it
shouldn't cost you to much money. (We get robbed blind over here for
everything!)

I hope this helps

Graham Payton

> IMHO you are far better of with SCSI and NT's software raid, than IDE
based
> hardware RAID.  Assuming that the two current drives are identical, and
you
> just need some more space, I would look at installing a pair of new SCSI
> drives as a mirror set, transferring the data from your current "data"
> drive, and then creating a mirror form the two original drives.  A new
pair
> of SCSI drives will probably cost a little more than the Promise
controller
> and 4 IDE drives, but would perform far better.

> --
> Mal Osborne
> MCSE Mensa

> ** Note New Email Address! **



> > I've got two SCSI drives in a server.  For reasons well beyond my
control,
> a
> > four drive Promise IDE RAID needs to be the new boot drives... Is there
> any
> > way to move the files over without a complete reinstall.

> > Do you think it's better to convince people that a different plan might
be
> > better?  They need the mirroring/spanning in the RAID for data integrity
> and
> > right now the two SCSI drives just run as individual drives... Do you
> think
> > it would be better to move the files off the second SCSI drive and then
> set
> > it up as a NT mirrored RAID with the other SCSI drive?  I think their
main
> > concern is data integrity, so if that's possible I bet I could sell them
> on
> > the plan.  (They're still going to need the IDE RAID for storage, I bet)

 
 
 

SCSI to RAID IDE?!

Post by Alex B » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


thanks a lot for your replies!

i'm stuck with the Promise RAID and four drives (unfortunately, i guess)...
but can i make it so i don't boot from them?  can't i just throw them in,
and use them for the "file serving" part of the network (thereby freeing up
a lot of space on the two SCSI drives) and then when there's enough space on
the SCSI drives, mirror them?  Can the promise RAID be the non boot drive
array?  I'd love to not have to move the sbs install


> I agree with Mals' suggestion.

> I love the Promise RAID controllers and would advise anyone with IDE to
get
> one.

> However, you already have SCSI and to then get IDE would be a big backward
> step.

> The only drawback is that you cannot boot directly from a mirror disk
> created using NTs software fault tolerance.  (This is something to bear in
> mind as it kind of defeats the object of mirroring the disk in my
opinion.)

> It is possible to do so with a bit of fuss.  Check out a previous post
from
> Chris Funk in this newsgroup on 16/08/2000.  There is a great reply from
> Larry Struckmeyer which lists all the relevant MS docs you will need to
read
> about booting from an NT software mirror.

> If your two SCSI disks are big enough to cope with everything you want to
do
> then make the mirror.  If possible though try and spend the money put
aside
> for the IDE stuff on a hardware SCSI RAID card.  Adaptec make a good
single
> channel PCI card.  I believe that Mylex also make a very good card, but I
> have no experience with this one.  As long as you don't live in the UK it
> shouldn't cost you to much money. (We get robbed blind over here for
> everything!)

> I hope this helps

> Graham Payton


> > IMHO you are far better of with SCSI and NT's software raid, than IDE
> based
> > hardware RAID.  Assuming that the two current drives are identical, and
> you
> > just need some more space, I would look at installing a pair of new SCSI
> > drives as a mirror set, transferring the data from your current "data"
> > drive, and then creating a mirror form the two original drives.  A new
> pair
> > of SCSI drives will probably cost a little more than the Promise
> controller
> > and 4 IDE drives, but would perform far better.

> > --
> > Mal Osborne
> > MCSE Mensa

> > ** Note New Email Address! **



> > > I've got two SCSI drives in a server.  For reasons well beyond my
> control,
> > a
> > > four drive Promise IDE RAID needs to be the new boot drives... Is
there
> > any
> > > way to move the files over without a complete reinstall.

> > > Do you think it's better to convince people that a different plan
might
> be
> > > better?  They need the mirroring/spanning in the RAID for data
integrity
> > and
> > > right now the two SCSI drives just run as individual drives... Do you
> > think
> > > it would be better to move the files off the second SCSI drive and
then
> > set
> > > it up as a NT mirrored RAID with the other SCSI drive?  I think their
> main
> > > concern is data integrity, so if that's possible I bet I could sell
them
> > on
> > > the plan.  (They're still going to need the IDE RAID for storage, I
bet)

 
 
 

SCSI to RAID IDE?!

Post by Graham Payto » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


As far as I know the Promise RAID controller does not force itself to be the
device that you must boot from.

Most motherboards have an option in the BIOS for boot device order.  You
will normally have lots of options to cycle through which are bunched in
threes like so: A,C,CDROM or A,C,SCSI.  Just keep cycling through these so
that the SCSI option is listed first.

Now your PC will definately boot straight from the SCSI disk, regardless of
what other IDE drives you have installed.

Some boards are even better, SuperMicro are by far the best.  Their BIOSes
have a list which you can put in whatever order you want.

You don't have to worry about re-installing the SBS though.  You could run
it from the Promise controller in a mirrored fashion.

Firstly install the promise card and the drives into the system.  Enter the
BIOS on the Promise RAID controller and setup your RAID set. (In your case
mirrored disks).

Now boot up the SBS server and install the drivers for the promise card.
Reboot the system again and ensure the the card has been recognised and can
that the MASTER drive on it can be seen from within NT. (Please note you
will not be able to see the MIRROR drive from within the NT operating
system!)

Now all you need is a copy of Norton Ghost or PowerQuest DriveImage.  This
software is really cool, although it does ghost around 40.  However, Soyo
bundle a free copy of Ghost with their motherboards, so if you know anyone
who has a Soyo board then borrow their copy.  Both of these bits of software
can fit on bootable floppy disks.

Now you simply boot from the Ghost floppy and tell it to clone the SBS
partition on the SCSI boot hard disk to the Master drive on the Promise RAID
controller.
(PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make sure that you copy the partition onto the correct
disk.  There is NO way of reversing this process if you copy over some data
you really needed to keep!)

Once the partition has been copied, switch off the server and unplug the
SCSI hard disks.  Now switch on the server and SBS should boot up from the
IDE drives on the Promise Controller giving you a completely mirrored
server.

I hope this helps

Regards

Graham Payton

P.S.

PLEASE remember to check that you are copying the correct partition to the
correct place before starting Ghost or DriveImage.

> thanks a lot for your replies!

> i'm stuck with the Promise RAID and four drives (unfortunately, i
guess)...
> but can i make it so i don't boot from them?  can't i just throw them in,
> and use them for the "file serving" part of the network (thereby freeing
up
> a lot of space on the two SCSI drives) and then when there's enough space
on
> the SCSI drives, mirror them?  Can the promise RAID be the non boot drive
> array?  I'd love to not have to move the sbs install



> > I agree with Mals' suggestion.

> > I love the Promise RAID controllers and would advise anyone with IDE to
> get
> > one.

> > However, you already have SCSI and to then get IDE would be a big
backward
> > step.

> > The only drawback is that you cannot boot directly from a mirror disk
> > created using NTs software fault tolerance.  (This is something to bear
in
> > mind as it kind of defeats the object of mirroring the disk in my
> opinion.)

> > It is possible to do so with a bit of fuss.  Check out a previous post
> from
> > Chris Funk in this newsgroup on 16/08/2000.  There is a great reply from
> > Larry Struckmeyer which lists all the relevant MS docs you will need to
> read
> > about booting from an NT software mirror.

> > If your two SCSI disks are big enough to cope with everything you want
to
> do
> > then make the mirror.  If possible though try and spend the money put
> aside
> > for the IDE stuff on a hardware SCSI RAID card.  Adaptec make a good
> single
> > channel PCI card.  I believe that Mylex also make a very good card, but
I
> > have no experience with this one.  As long as you don't live in the UK
it
> > shouldn't cost you to much money. (We get robbed blind over here for
> > everything!)

> > I hope this helps

> > Graham Payton


> > > IMHO you are far better of with SCSI and NT's software raid, than IDE
> > based
> > > hardware RAID.  Assuming that the two current drives are identical,
and
> > you
> > > just need some more space, I would look at installing a pair of new
SCSI
> > > drives as a mirror set, transferring the data from your current "data"
> > > drive, and then creating a mirror form the two original drives.  A new
> > pair
> > > of SCSI drives will probably cost a little more than the Promise
> > controller
> > > and 4 IDE drives, but would perform far better.

> > > --
> > > Mal Osborne
> > > MCSE Mensa

> > > ** Note New Email Address! **



> > > > I've got two SCSI drives in a server.  For reasons well beyond my
> > control,
> > > a
> > > > four drive Promise IDE RAID needs to be the new boot drives... Is
> there
> > > any
> > > > way to move the files over without a complete reinstall.

> > > > Do you think it's better to convince people that a different plan
> might
> > be
> > > > better?  They need the mirroring/spanning in the RAID for data
> integrity
> > > and
> > > > right now the two SCSI drives just run as individual drives... Do
you
> > > think
> > > > it would be better to move the files off the second SCSI drive and
> then
> > > set
> > > > it up as a NT mirrored RAID with the other SCSI drive?  I think
their
> > main
> > > > concern is data integrity, so if that's possible I bet I could sell
> them
> > > on
> > > > the plan.  (They're still going to need the IDE RAID for storage, I
> bet)

 
 
 

SCSI to RAID IDE?!

Post by Alex B » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


hey graham,

great advice, thank you!  you should be on promises' payroll!

thanks again.


> As far as I know the Promise RAID controller does not force itself to be
the
> device that you must boot from.

> Most motherboards have an option in the BIOS for boot device order.  You
> will normally have lots of options to cycle through which are bunched in
> threes like so: A,C,CDROM or A,C,SCSI.  Just keep cycling through these so
> that the SCSI option is listed first.

> Now your PC will definately boot straight from the SCSI disk, regardless
of
> what other IDE drives you have installed.

> Some boards are even better, SuperMicro are by far the best.  Their BIOSes
> have a list which you can put in whatever order you want.

> You don't have to worry about re-installing the SBS though.  You could run
> it from the Promise controller in a mirrored fashion.

> Firstly install the promise card and the drives into the system.  Enter
the
> BIOS on the Promise RAID controller and setup your RAID set. (In your case
> mirrored disks).

> Now boot up the SBS server and install the drivers for the promise card.
> Reboot the system again and ensure the the card has been recognised and
can
> that the MASTER drive on it can be seen from within NT. (Please note you
> will not be able to see the MIRROR drive from within the NT operating
> system!)

> Now all you need is a copy of Norton Ghost or PowerQuest DriveImage.  This
> software is really cool, although it does ghost around 40.  However, Soyo
> bundle a free copy of Ghost with their motherboards, so if you know anyone
> who has a Soyo board then borrow their copy.  Both of these bits of
software
> can fit on bootable floppy disks.

> Now you simply boot from the Ghost floppy and tell it to clone the SBS
> partition on the SCSI boot hard disk to the Master drive on the Promise
RAID
> controller.
> (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make sure that you copy the partition onto the
correct
> disk.  There is NO way of reversing this process if you copy over some
data
> you really needed to keep!)

> Once the partition has been copied, switch off the server and unplug the
> SCSI hard disks.  Now switch on the server and SBS should boot up from the
> IDE drives on the Promise Controller giving you a completely mirrored
> server.

> I hope this helps

> Regards

> Graham Payton

> P.S.

> PLEASE remember to check that you are copying the correct partition to the
> correct place before starting Ghost or DriveImage.


> > thanks a lot for your replies!

> > i'm stuck with the Promise RAID and four drives (unfortunately, i
> guess)...
> > but can i make it so i don't boot from them?  can't i just throw them
in,
> > and use them for the "file serving" part of the network (thereby freeing
> up
> > a lot of space on the two SCSI drives) and then when there's enough
space
> on
> > the SCSI drives, mirror them?  Can the promise RAID be the non boot
drive
> > array?  I'd love to not have to move the sbs install



> > > I agree with Mals' suggestion.

> > > I love the Promise RAID controllers and would advise anyone with IDE
to
> > get
> > > one.

> > > However, you already have SCSI and to then get IDE would be a big
> backward
> > > step.

> > > The only drawback is that you cannot boot directly from a mirror disk
> > > created using NTs software fault tolerance.  (This is something to
bear
> in
> > > mind as it kind of defeats the object of mirroring the disk in my
> > opinion.)

> > > It is possible to do so with a bit of fuss.  Check out a previous post
> > from
> > > Chris Funk in this newsgroup on 16/08/2000.  There is a great reply
from
> > > Larry Struckmeyer which lists all the relevant MS docs you will need
to
> > read
> > > about booting from an NT software mirror.

> > > If your two SCSI disks are big enough to cope with everything you want
> to
> > do
> > > then make the mirror.  If possible though try and spend the money put
> > aside
> > > for the IDE stuff on a hardware SCSI RAID card.  Adaptec make a good
> > single
> > > channel PCI card.  I believe that Mylex also make a very good card,
but
> I
> > > have no experience with this one.  As long as you don't live in the UK
> it
> > > shouldn't cost you to much money. (We get robbed blind over here for
> > > everything!)

> > > I hope this helps

> > > Graham Payton


> > > > IMHO you are far better of with SCSI and NT's software raid, than
IDE
> > > based
> > > > hardware RAID.  Assuming that the two current drives are identical,
> and
> > > you
> > > > just need some more space, I would look at installing a pair of new
> SCSI
> > > > drives as a mirror set, transferring the data from your current
"data"
> > > > drive, and then creating a mirror form the two original drives.  A
new
> > > pair
> > > > of SCSI drives will probably cost a little more than the Promise
> > > controller
> > > > and 4 IDE drives, but would perform far better.

> > > > --
> > > > Mal Osborne
> > > > MCSE Mensa

> > > > ** Note New Email Address! **



> > > > > I've got two SCSI drives in a server.  For reasons well beyond my
> > > control,
> > > > a
> > > > > four drive Promise IDE RAID needs to be the new boot drives... Is
> > there
> > > > any
> > > > > way to move the files over without a complete reinstall.

> > > > > Do you think it's better to convince people that a different plan
> > might
> > > be
> > > > > better?  They need the mirroring/spanning in the RAID for data
> > integrity
> > > > and
> > > > > right now the two SCSI drives just run as individual drives... Do
> you
> > > > think
> > > > > it would be better to move the files off the second SCSI drive and
> > then
> > > > set
> > > > > it up as a NT mirrored RAID with the other SCSI drive?  I think
> their
> > > main
> > > > > concern is data integrity, so if that's possible I bet I could
sell
> > them
> > > > on
> > > > > the plan.  (They're still going to need the IDE RAID for storage,
I
> > bet)

 
 
 

1. upgrading SBS IDE to SCSI!!! HOW!!!

I need opinions/procedures of changing a sbs server IDE to a SBS Serve SCSI.
The system was built and configured before I came into the picture with 2 8
gig IDED drives mirrored.  I know the problems with IDE and have had them
very strongly reinforced by microsoft.

I have ordered  a adaptec 2940uw with 2 9.1 gig fujitsus that i plan to
mirror!

See any problems.  I thought I would install the scsi and them dump a ghost
image to one scsi and then mirror another!  Then change arc paths, remove
the IDE drives and then start off SCSI(in a perfect world!)

What do you the problems will be???

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4. Everyone must see this!

5. Moving from IDE to SCSI.

6. Blocking calls and time-outs

7. Change disk IDE to SCSI with Mirror.

8. How do I stop Eudora 5.0 cache?

9. Mixing SCSI and IDE

10. Migrating from SBS with IDE disk to SBS with SCSI

11. Replacing IDE Drives for SCSI Ones. Help Please

12. Migrate System Boot drive from IDE to SCSI

13. SCSI or IDE/ 21 user server recommendation