Graphic program

Graphic program

Post by Derek Williamso » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:56:25



Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
wants to do this as a career.

thanks
Des

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Hans-Bernhard Broeke » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:00:36



> Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
> who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
> wants to do this as a career.

I would recomment not to buy any software.  Give him POVRay (free
software) and a good book on the subject instead, for starters.  The
FAQ points out some good choices.  At 13, he'll have to make a big
jump ahead in some aspects of maths and physics (optics, mainly, but
also mechanics) to understand what those funny parameters the programs
let him control actually mean, so set aside some funds for buying
maths and physics textbooks, too...

--

Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Jerzy Karczmarczu » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:34:45




>>Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
>>who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
>>wants to do this as a career.

> I would recomment not to buy any software.  Give him POVRay (free
> software) and a good book on the subject instead, for starters.  The
> FAQ points out some good choices.  At 13, he'll have to make a big
> jump ahead in some aspects of maths and physics (optics, mainly, but
> also mechanics) to understand what those funny parameters the programs
> let him control actually mean, so set aside some funds for buying
> maths and physics textbooks, too...

==========================

Now, I imagine the avalanche of postings which you will get for the next three
days...

Want a historical anecdote? [[100% authentic, *guaranteed*, since documented]].
The King's Fool Stanczyk (16th century) bet that the most popular profession
in Poland is that of doctor. He went for a walk pretending that he suffered
from a toothache, and almost everybody around gave him some advice.

We know now that the most popular specialty is computer graphics, and everybody
has to say something about it. Good.

But why begin with *killing* the interest of a 13ager warnig him that he will
have to learn all this horrible optics, mechanics, and whatever. Hans-Bernhard,
did you have 13-year old monsters at home? I did, quite a time ago...

There are several 'facettes' of computer graphics + animation. Among others:

1. Interactive drawing and painting. POVRay won't help you here.
2. Manipulation of geometric objects.
3. Also: - notion of time in programming.

So, I believe that young fellow may start with 2D graphics, all kind of "Draw"
programs, and, say, PaintShop, before jumping into 3D. And, if he thinks
seriously about this domain, he will have to learn programming, which might be
more critical than physics [don't misunderstand me, I am a physicist myself],
because he will learn physics at school, while programming adapted to graphics
is badly taught, if at all.

So, think *already* about a simple, but decent programming language to make some
experiences. Again, here you will get 1001 proposals. My own: Python, with
some graphical stuff upon it, for example VPython. Acceptable even to my
students of biology, who are more difficult to deal with than 13agers...
And there are modules like PyGame to inspire him!

Jerzy Karczmarczuk

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Eric Grang » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:18:20


Quote:> [...] He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
> wants to do this as a career.

As a developper or as an artist? As an artist, the modding tools that come
with recent games (GMax for Quake3, UnrealEd for Unreal Tournament or U2, etc.)
can be starting points, they are often quite advanced (many are the offsprings
or "light" version of industry standard software like Max or Maya), you can find
tutorials and examples quite easily and they have vast user/fan communities.

As a developper, at 13, the development aspects will probably be lot more
frustrating, because he will probably not understand many of the concepts
and maths (unless he's already into programming).

Eric

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Ryan Farrel » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:21:03


I agree wholeheartedly with both HB and Jerzy's comments.  There's a LOT
to learn if he wishes to do computer graphics as a career, so tinkering
is definately the way to start.

While I could definately be wrong, my initial impression from Derek's
question was that his son might be more interested in animation.  If
this were the case, I was going to suggest Maya from Alias Wavefront.
Clearly one doesn't buy this for their 13 year old, but there is a free
learning edition, and learning manuals that may purchased very
inexpensively as well.

Just another thought...




> >>Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
> >>who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
> >>wants to do this as a career.

> > I would recomment not to buy any software.  Give him POVRay (free
> > software) and a good book on the subject instead, for starters.  The
> > FAQ points out some good choices.  At 13, he'll have to make a big
> > jump ahead in some aspects of maths and physics (optics, mainly, but
> > also mechanics) to understand what those funny parameters the programs
> > let him control actually mean, so set aside some funds for buying
> > maths and physics textbooks, too...

> ==========================

> Now, I imagine the avalanche of postings which you will get for the next three
> days...

> Want a historical anecdote? [[100% authentic, *guaranteed*, since documented]].
> The King's Fool Stanczyk (16th century) bet that the most popular profession
> in Poland is that of doctor. He went for a walk pretending that he suffered
> from a toothache, and almost everybody around gave him some advice.

> We know now that the most popular specialty is computer graphics, and everybody
> has to say something about it. Good.

> But why begin with *killing* the interest of a 13ager warnig him that he will
> have to learn all this horrible optics, mechanics, and whatever. Hans-Bernhard,
> did you have 13-year old monsters at home? I did, quite a time ago...

> There are several 'facettes' of computer graphics + animation. Among others:

> 1. Interactive drawing and painting. POVRay won't help you here.
> 2. Manipulation of geometric objects.
> 3. Also: - notion of time in programming.

> So, I believe that young fellow may start with 2D graphics, all kind of "Draw"
> programs, and, say, PaintShop, before jumping into 3D. And, if he thinks
> seriously about this domain, he will have to learn programming, which might be
> more critical than physics [don't misunderstand me, I am a physicist myself],
> because he will learn physics at school, while programming adapted to graphics
> is badly taught, if at all.

> So, think *already* about a simple, but decent programming language to make some
> experiences. Again, here you will get 1001 proposals. My own: Python, with
> some graphical stuff upon it, for example VPython. Acceptable even to my
> students of biology, who are more difficult to deal with than 13agers...
> And there are modules like PyGame to inspire him!

> Jerzy Karczmarczuk

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by j » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:43:21


for 2D, there's this beautiful and relitavely
cheap program AURA.

J

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
  please tear the sticker off my eddress before use
-------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:> > [...] He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
> > wants to do this as a career.

> As a developper or as an artist? As an artist, the modding tools that come
> with recent games (GMax for Quake3, UnrealEd for Unreal Tournament or U2,
etc.)
> can be starting points, they are often quite advanced (many are the
offsprings
> or "light" version of industry standard software like Max or Maya), you
can find
> tutorials and examples quite easily and they have vast user/fan
communities.

> As a developper, at 13, the development aspects will probably be lot more
> frustrating, because he will probably not understand many of the concepts
> and maths (unless he's already into programming).

> Eric

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Just d' FAQ » Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:48:45


On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:56:25 +1000, "Derek Williamson"


>Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
>who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
>wants to do this as a career.

What a wonderful idea. Is he attracted to feature film work like Toy
Story, Shrek, or the character Gollum in The Two Towers? Or does he
prefer 3D *? Is he inclined more toward art or more toward the
science and mathematics? Or perhaps programming?

And most important, how serious is he in relationship to your budget?
That's an age where interests can change rapidly. High-end computer
graphics programs like Maya cost thousands of dollars. Even low-end
professional programs can cost hundreds.

Luckily there is a trend to release free "student" versions, and also
an assortment of open-source software. For example, there's

  <http://www.veryComputer.com/;

But another question is, on what hardware and operating system? In the
professional world much work is done with Unix and Macintosh systems
rather than with Windows. And the design and rendering of animation
stresses the graphics, computing, and memory limits (RAM and disk) of
a personal computer.

Even so, personal computers are adequate for learning, and although
free software is usually more awkward, it's also adequate.

What makes me most cautious is that there is so much to learn, and
that's best done working directly with another person. It's easy to
get frustrated, early and often! He needs a friend, community, or
class, not just a program, to support and sustain his enthusiasm.

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Jeroen Commandeu » Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:15:42


I assume he wants to be an artist. Maybe an easy way to start would be to
download DeleD.
That's my own experimental 3d editor which I use to learn various aspects of
3d programming.
You can draw various primitives like cubes, cylinders and pyramids with it
and merge them into
more complicated objects. It's not very advanced so it should be easy to
learn for a 13 year old.
Anyway, just a suggestion. Visit http://www.gamefortress.com/delgine for
more info.

Eric Grange also named a few very nice 3d editors which could be usefull for
the aspiring 3d artist. :-)


Quote:> Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
> who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as
he
> wants to do this as a career.

> thanks
> Des

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Lewis Seller » Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:20:00


On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:56:25 +1000, "Derek Williamson"


>Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
>who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
>wants to do this as a career.

>thanks
>Des

There are several, but the "professional" ones tend to be rather
expensive. As he's only 13 I'd try by getting his feet wet with Povray
and Blender if he's not already done so. Both free. (Povray.org and
Blender.org).

I'd go with povray first. No, it's unlikely he'd ever use it for
professional work (it's too slow and doesn't create compatible
meshes), but it is a true ray-tracing application that uses a simple
geometry-based scripting language. Playing with that for a while
should help him understand things like CSG (constructive solid
geometry). Most importantly, you can get fairly immediate results from
it (ie, comparatively low frustration level -- important for young
kids.)

(I once spent almost a full day with various math books open trying to
simulate the carpeting and woodcut of a catcondo in povray.
http://www.intrafoundation.com/images/catcondo.jpg. povray can
actually make such things rather fun.)

After that he can move on to Blender. It's a (now freeware) 3D modeler
similiar to Lightwave or Maya. Fairly popular among the crowd writing
freeware 3D games at the moment. Now if the boy doesn't erase it from
the hard drive in frustation after a couple months :) then it's
probably not a passing fad with him and it might be justifiable to dip
into the college fund for a copy of Maya.

--min

 
 
 

Graphic program

Post by Adri » Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:21:17



> Does anybody know of a good computer graphic program I can buy for my son
> who is 13 years old. He wants to lean computer graphics and animation as he
> wants to do this as a career.

> thanks
> Des

One program you might want to consider is Bryce 5, which right now you
can get directly from
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel/Products/buyInf...
for US$79.99.

Yes, I know Bryce 5 has the unconventional interface and really isn't
a modeling program and takes FOREVER to render, but what it can do is
teach him the basics of lighting, texture and x,y and z space in a
easy to learn environment.

Also, I believe Photoshop is imperative for using to build greyscale
heightmaps for Bryce as well as post-production fine-tuning and
composite. Photoshop also has the ability to teach the principles of
masking and heightmaps for photoshop plugins like KPT Shapeshifter
<http://www.amenfoto.com/gallery/tweaked/clouds.html> and KPT
Materializer <http://www.amenfoto.com/gallery/tweaked/manoscan.html>
You can also import 2-D images into Bryce as a Virtual Photo Studio
<http://www.amenfoto.com/gallery/portraitstweaked/tweak_raine_dance.html>.

So my recommendation would be to get him Photoshop and Bryce and let
him grow from there.

thanks,
--
Adrian
"A Picture's Worth A Thousand Nerds."

http://www.amenfoto.com

 
 
 

1. Looking for shareware drawing program or simple 2D graphics program for kids

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Kathy
Anigrafix Limited

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