Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Post by Emmanuel Hen » Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:00:00



Hi!

I could just explode of anger !
Okay, okay, okay (Leo Getz voice ;) )

I have modelled this strange. two-legged amphibian creature, and
I am quite satisfied with it.
Of course, the fool I am wanted to BONE it.
Oh MY GOD, what a MISTAKE.

I rotated the legs a bit so that the muscles come out
better, the tips of the feet are facing SLIGHTLY inward.

Okay, okay, okay.
I put in the bones, add the two first goals for the feet...
and what happens ?
I move to frame one to make a test-motion, and as soon as
I move "Foot_Left_Goal", the footbone turns around, faces
the goal-object (!) and the whole thing looks like a DUCK
WALKING :(((

Now, I have read all the stuff in manuals 100 times.
I`ve read about the gimbal lock, I`ve read about the
helicopter rotor blades in the manual, and I have read the tip
that it would be better to model those blades in a special way
and rotate them in layout.

So far, so good.
But why the heck do the bones adapt the orientation of the feet,
when they should (as described in the manual)be a tool to deform
the object, not vice versa ???

Really NewTek, maybe I am not the brightest star in the skies, but I am
givin` a try to them bones every other week, and since several months, and still
don`t get 100% what I want.
The bones are sooooo complicated and so un-intuitive.
There`s so many work arounds You have to use to get what You need.

I really don`t like it :(

CU L8ER,

Emmanuel, Team *AMIGA* , Surfin` the LIGHTWAVE!
Producer of PHOENIX
__

Visit the PHOENIX Site under: http://www.xgw.fi/~slice/ftales/
Die deutsche Homepage:        http://www.germany.net/teilnehmer/101,19879
Our publisher`s site :        http://www.chiemgau.com/apc&tcp

"If You had seen with Your eyes what I have seen with Your eyes..."

 
 
 

Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Post by Mark Clarkso » Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:00:00


Don't know if this will help, but.... don't use a bone that's performing a deform
function as the goal seeker.  That is, don't tell the foot bone that it has a goal.
Rather, make another, tiny bone on the end of the foot (a little, tiny toe bone) and
assign IT the goal.  This may solve some of your problems.
    Remember, the fat end of the bone, not the skinny end - the 'base' rather than
the 'tip' - will seek the goal (which seems intuitively backward to me, but there
you are.)  If you set it up expecting it to work the other way, your goal seeking
bones will whip around backwards on you every time.
    Hope this helps.


> Hi!

> I could just explode of anger !
> Okay, okay, okay (Leo Getz voice ;) )

> I have modelled this strange. two-legged amphibian creature, and
> I am quite satisfied with it.
> Of course, the fool I am wanted to BONE it.
> Oh MY GOD, what a MISTAKE.

> I rotated the legs a bit so that the muscles come out
> better, the tips of the feet are facing SLIGHTLY inward.

> Okay, okay, okay.
> I put in the bones, add the two first goals for the feet...
> and what happens ?
> I move to frame one to make a test-motion, and as soon as
> I move "Foot_Left_Goal", the footbone turns around, faces
> the goal-object (!) and the whole thing looks like a DUCK
> WALKING :(((

> Now, I have read all the stuff in manuals 100 times.
> I`ve read about the gimbal lock, I`ve read about the
> helicopter rotor blades in the manual, and I have read the tip
> that it would be better to model those blades in a special way
> and rotate them in layout.

> So far, so good.
> But why the heck do the bones adapt the orientation of the feet,
> when they should (as described in the manual)be a tool to deform
> the object, not vice versa ???

> Really NewTek, maybe I am not the brightest star in the skies, but I am
> givin` a try to them bones every other week, and since several months, and still
> don`t get 100% what I want.
> The bones are sooooo complicated and so un-intuitive.
> There`s so many work arounds You have to use to get what You need.

> I really don`t like it :(

> CU L8ER,

> Emmanuel, Team *AMIGA* , Surfin` the LIGHTWAVE!
> Producer of PHOENIX
> __

> Visit the PHOENIX Site under: http://www.xgw.fi/~slice/ftales/
> Die deutsche Homepage:        http://www.germany.net/teilnehmer/101,19879
> Our publisher`s site :        http://www.chiemgau.com/apc&tcp

> "If You had seen with Your eyes what I have seen with Your eyes..."

--
mark clarkson
-         writer, artist, dilettante


fax: 316.688.1216            http://www2.southwind.net/~markc

"People who are always right make me sick!" - Randall, Time Bandits

 
 
 

Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Post by Nial » Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:00:00



>> Okay, okay, okay.
>> I put in the bones, add the two first goals for the feet...
>> and what happens ?
>> I move to frame one to make a test-motion, and as soon as
>> I move "Foot_Left_Goal", the footbone turns around, faces
>> the goal-object (!) and the whole thing looks like a DUCK
>> WALKING :(((

>> Now, I have read all the stuff in manuals 100 times.



Quote:>Don't know if this will help, but.... don't use a bone that's performing a
>deform
>function as the goal seeker.  That is, don't tell the foot bone that it has a
>goal.
>Rather, make another, tiny bone on the end of the foot (a little, tiny toe bone)
>and
>assign IT the goal.  This may solve some of your problems.
>    Remember, the fat end of the bone, not the skinny end - the 'base' rather
>than
>the 'tip' - will seek the goal (which seems intuitively backward to me, but
>there
>you are.)  If you set it up expecting it to work the other way, your goal
>seeking
>bones will whip around backwards on you every time.
>    Hope this helps.

Sounds like the problem to me. NewTek have tutorial on their site
covering this very issue. You should check it out. I cant remember its
name but it is there.

--
Niall

 
 
 

Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Post by Emmanuel Hen » Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:00:00


Niall`s comment about "Re: Kill, kill, kill the bones....." was....

Ni> >Don't know if this will help, but.... don't use a bone that's performing a
Ni> >deform
Ni> >function as the goal seeker.  That is, don't tell the foot bone that it has a
Ni> >goal.
Ni> >Rather, make another, tiny bone on the end of the foot (a little, tiny toe bone)
Ni> >and
Ni> >assign IT the goal.  This may solve some of your problems.
Ni> >    Remember, the fat end of the bone, not the skinny end - the 'base' rather
Ni> >than
Ni> >the 'tip' - will seek the goal (which seems intuitively backward to me, but
Ni> >there
Ni> >you are.)  If you set it up expecting it to work the other way, your goal
Ni> >seeking
Ni> >bones will whip around backwards on you every time.
Ni> >    Hope this helps.
Ni>
Ni> Sounds like the problem to me. NewTek have tutorial on their site
Ni> covering this very issue. You should check it out. I cant remember its
Ni> name but it is there.

I will try it, thanks.
But one question: if the FAT end tries to reach the bone, why do the manuals
say that the bone`s shape is just a "visual aid" and help for rotation ?

CU L8ER,

Emmanuel, Team *AMIGA* , Surfin` the LIGHTWAVE!
Producer of PHOENIX
__

Visit the PHOENIX Site under: http://www.xgw.fi/~slice/ftales/
Die deutsche Homepage:        http://www.germany.net/teilnehmer/101,19879
Our publisher`s site :        http://www.chiemgau.com/apc&tcp

"Now, where do we find this...J.F.Sebastian..?"

 
 
 

Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Post by Martin Ston » Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>I will try it, thanks.
>But one question: if the FAT end tries to reach the bone, why do the
manuals
>say that the bone`s shape is just a "visual aid" and help for rotation ?

It's actually the bones pivot point[1] that will seek the goal, hence the
need for a tiny seeker bone on the end.  With this in mind, if you want a
goal for an elbow or knee, use the forearm bone as the goal seeker, as it's
pivot point will be at the elbow joint.

C Ya's...

[1] Or if it's a sectioned figure, the objects pivot point, in which case
use a null as the seeker.

 
 
 

Kill, kill, kill the bones.....

Post by Tim Wilso » Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:00:00


I move to frame one to make a test-motion, and as soon as
I move "Foot_Left_Goal", the footbone turns around, faces
the goal-object (!) and the whole thing looks like a DUCK
WALKING :(((
<<<

Are you using Match Goal Orientation?

If so, then your foot will align to the Goal, irrespective of the
IK Limits applied to other joints in the leg. If you constructed
the figure facing toward you in Layout (facing in the negative Z
direction), then you probably need to rotate your goal 180
degrees in Heading to align it to the foot bone correctly.

- Tim Wilson, Crestline Software

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/crestline/lwohuman.htm

 
 
 

1. Will 3dsPRO kill Lightwave? NEWTEKS KILL



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CS>                 **********************************************

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CS>    Animation    *   Home of the Lightwave 3D Search Engine   *    Training
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