HV3 again

HV3 again

Post by Nick Hatzichristo » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00



I 've been playing with HV3 in 6. You probably know that one of my (as well
as others') biggest complaints was that NT took Steamer (particles) out of
6. So, seeing as I was the one claiming that 6 is no worse, just different,
I decided to try and "adopt" my techniques to the new tools.
After a few hours with HV3, I managed to get a result very close to that of
Steamer, using Sprite mode. I 'm now almost certain that that's exactly the
reason NewTek added that Sprite mode in 6b.
My "first" impressions are that HV3 in sprite mode is quite good an
alternative to Steamer. Or, to be more precise, it has the potential to
become one. Not quite there yet, because of two main reasons :

First, speed. At first I couldn't believe how slow it was, compared to
Steamer. But then I realised that all the optional "extras" Steamer had are
now on by default. HV3 will, by default, appear in reflections, cast /
receive shadows, etc. So I deactivated all those "extras" in order to make a
more fair comparison. Render times were close to those of Steamer this time,
but not close enough - I really hope there's room for improvement there.

Second, I think NT absolutely has to add all the procedurals as available
HyperTextures in Sprite mode. There's some gems in there, that would look
great with Sprite HVs, so why aren't they available ? 3 procedurals are not
enough for all the different effects one might need to achieve. Why not
Smoky 1,2, and 3 ? Why not *all* of 6's other procedurals ?

HV3 has the potential to out-perform Steamer, both speed- and quality- wise.
Just not quite there yet. I 'm still hoping tho - after all, Steamer had to
go
through a few updates before it became the tool it is today...

I just thought I 'd share my Steamer-replacement experience, especially
since I was one of the first to complain about the lack of Steamer.

nick

--

Nick Hatzichristos
3D Animator
Visual FX & Post Production

ICQ# : 48636115
http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Mark » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00


I agree with most of what you're saying plus, what happened to the doubler's?
Steamer Doubler made a world of difference as did HV Doubler. Adding a render
1/2 res option would transform things in my opinion. Plus why doesn't HV3 have
Fur like HV2. It all seams very weird.

Cheers

Mark


> I 've been playing with HV3 in 6. You probably know that one of my (as well
> as others') biggest complaints was that NT took Steamer (particles) out of
> 6. So, seeing as I was the one claiming that 6 is no worse, just different,
> I decided to try and "adopt" my techniques to the new tools.
> After a few hours with HV3, I managed to get a result very close to that of
> Steamer, using Sprite mode. I 'm now almost certain that that's exactly the
> reason NewTek added that Sprite mode in 6b.
> My "first" impressions are that HV3 in sprite mode is quite good an
> alternative to Steamer. Or, to be more precise, it has the potential to
> become one. Not quite there yet, because of two main reasons :

> First, speed. At first I couldn't believe how slow it was, compared to
> Steamer. But then I realised that all the optional "extras" Steamer had are
> now on by default. HV3 will, by default, appear in reflections, cast /
> receive shadows, etc. So I deactivated all those "extras" in order to make a
> more fair comparison. Render times were close to those of Steamer this time,
> but not close enough - I really hope there's room for improvement there.

> Second, I think NT absolutely has to add all the procedurals as available
> HyperTextures in Sprite mode. There's some gems in there, that would look
> great with Sprite HVs, so why aren't they available ? 3 procedurals are not
> enough for all the different effects one might need to achieve. Why not
> Smoky 1,2, and 3 ? Why not *all* of 6's other procedurals ?

> HV3 has the potential to out-perform Steamer, both speed- and quality- wise.
> Just not quite there yet. I 'm still hoping tho - after all, Steamer had to
> go
> through a few updates before it became the tool it is today...

> I just thought I 'd share my Steamer-replacement experience, especially
> since I was one of the first to complain about the lack of Steamer.

> nick

> --

> Nick Hatzichristos
> 3D Animator
> Visual FX & Post Production

> ICQ# : 48636115
> http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx


 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Mark » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Also, spites don't seam to want to intersect without showing * edges.

Mark


> I agree with most of what you're saying plus, what happened to the doubler's?
> Steamer Doubler made a world of difference as did HV Doubler. Adding a render
> 1/2 res option would transform things in my opinion. Plus why doesn't HV3 have
> Fur like HV2. It all seams very weird.

> Cheers

> Mark


> > I 've been playing with HV3 in 6. You probably know that one of my (as well
> > as others') biggest complaints was that NT took Steamer (particles) out of
> > 6. So, seeing as I was the one claiming that 6 is no worse, just different,
> > I decided to try and "adopt" my techniques to the new tools.
> > After a few hours with HV3, I managed to get a result very close to that of
> > Steamer, using Sprite mode. I 'm now almost certain that that's exactly the
> > reason NewTek added that Sprite mode in 6b.
> > My "first" impressions are that HV3 in sprite mode is quite good an
> > alternative to Steamer. Or, to be more precise, it has the potential to
> > become one. Not quite there yet, because of two main reasons :

> > First, speed. At first I couldn't believe how slow it was, compared to
> > Steamer. But then I realised that all the optional "extras" Steamer had are
> > now on by default. HV3 will, by default, appear in reflections, cast /
> > receive shadows, etc. So I deactivated all those "extras" in order to make a
> > more fair comparison. Render times were close to those of Steamer this time,
> > but not close enough - I really hope there's room for improvement there.

> > Second, I think NT absolutely has to add all the procedurals as available
> > HyperTextures in Sprite mode. There's some gems in there, that would look
> > great with Sprite HVs, so why aren't they available ? 3 procedurals are not
> > enough for all the different effects one might need to achieve. Why not
> > Smoky 1,2, and 3 ? Why not *all* of 6's other procedurals ?

> > HV3 has the potential to out-perform Steamer, both speed- and quality- wise.
> > Just not quite there yet. I 'm still hoping tho - after all, Steamer had to
> > go
> > through a few updates before it became the tool it is today...

> > I just thought I 'd share my Steamer-replacement experience, especially
> > since I was one of the first to complain about the lack of Steamer.

> > nick

> > --

> > Nick Hatzichristos
> > 3D Animator
> > Visual FX & Post Production

> > ICQ# : 48636115
> > http://www.veryComputer.com/~nixx

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by J.D. » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Maybe Im wrong, but I thought that steamer was still found in lightwave under
the "classics" grouping, or something of that sort. But I don't have 6.0, so I
could just be wrong.

J.D.


> I 've been playing with HV3 in 6. You probably know that one of my (as well
> as others') biggest complaints was that NT took Steamer (particles) out of
> 6. So, seeing as I was the one claiming that 6 is no worse, just different,
> I decided to try and "adopt" my techniques to the new tools.
> After a few hours with HV3, I managed to get a result very close to that of
> Steamer, using Sprite mode. I 'm now almost certain that that's exactly the
> reason NewTek added that Sprite mode in 6b.
> My "first" impressions are that HV3 in sprite mode is quite good an
> alternative to Steamer. Or, to be more precise, it has the potential to
> become one. Not quite there yet, because of two main reasons :

> First, speed. At first I couldn't believe how slow it was, compared to
> Steamer. But then I realised that all the optional "extras" Steamer had are
> now on by default. HV3 will, by default, appear in reflections, cast /
> receive shadows, etc. So I deactivated all those "extras" in order to make a
> more fair comparison. Render times were close to those of Steamer this time,
> but not close enough - I really hope there's room for improvement there.

> Second, I think NT absolutely has to add all the procedurals as available
> HyperTextures in Sprite mode. There's some gems in there, that would look
> great with Sprite HVs, so why aren't they available ? 3 procedurals are not
> enough for all the different effects one might need to achieve. Why not
> Smoky 1,2, and 3 ? Why not *all* of 6's other procedurals ?

> HV3 has the potential to out-perform Steamer, both speed- and quality- wise.
> Just not quite there yet. I 'm still hoping tho - after all, Steamer had to
> go
> through a few updates before it became the tool it is today...

> I just thought I 'd share my Steamer-replacement experience, especially
> since I was one of the first to complain about the lack of Steamer.

> nick

> --

> Nick Hatzichristos
> 3D Animator
> Visual FX & Post Production

> ICQ# : 48636115
> http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Nick Hatzichristo » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00


The doublers' job is now taken care of by the quality setting. However,
there is no quality setting in Sprite mode. And hey, fur... you 're right, I
hadn't noticed.
How I hope for those things to be fixed... NewTek ?

nick

--

Nick Hatzichristos
3D Animator
Visual FX & Post Production

ICQ# : 48636115
http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx


> I agree with most of what you're saying plus, what happened to the
doubler's?
> Steamer Doubler made a world of difference as did HV Doubler. Adding a
render
> 1/2 res option would transform things in my opinion. Plus why doesn't HV3
have
> Fur like HV2. It all seams very weird.

> Cheers

> Mark


> > I 've been playing with HV3 in 6. You probably know that one of my (as
well
> > as others') biggest complaints was that NT took Steamer (particles) out
of
> > 6. So, seeing as I was the one claiming that 6 is no worse, just
different,
> > I decided to try and "adopt" my techniques to the new tools.
> > After a few hours with HV3, I managed to get a result very close to that
of
> > Steamer, using Sprite mode. I 'm now almost certain that that's exactly
the
> > reason NewTek added that Sprite mode in 6b.
> > My "first" impressions are that HV3 in sprite mode is quite good an
> > alternative to Steamer. Or, to be more precise, it has the potential to
> > become one. Not quite there yet, because of two main reasons :

> > First, speed. At first I couldn't believe how slow it was, compared to
> > Steamer. But then I realised that all the optional "extras" Steamer had
are
> > now on by default. HV3 will, by default, appear in reflections, cast /
> > receive shadows, etc. So I deactivated all those "extras" in order to
make a
> > more fair comparison. Render times were close to those of Steamer this
time,
> > but not close enough - I really hope there's room for improvement there.

> > Second, I think NT absolutely has to add all the procedurals as
available
> > HyperTextures in Sprite mode. There's some gems in there, that would
look
> > great with Sprite HVs, so why aren't they available ? 3 procedurals are
not
> > enough for all the different effects one might need to achieve. Why not
> > Smoky 1,2, and 3 ? Why not *all* of 6's other procedurals ?

> > HV3 has the potential to out-perform Steamer, both speed- and quality-
wise.
> > Just not quite there yet. I 'm still hoping tho - after all, Steamer had
to
> > go
> > through a few updates before it became the tool it is today...

> > I just thought I 'd share my Steamer-replacement experience, especially
> > since I was one of the first to complain about the lack of Steamer.

> > nick

> > --

> > Nick Hatzichristos
> > 3D Animator
> > Visual FX & Post Production

> > ICQ# : 48636115
> > http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Roni » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00


I agree that the Sprite mode has a lot of potential for creating
steamer like effects. I have been able to use it to create
atmospheric effects but would like to see more texture options.

Has anyone tried the ground fog in 6. I can't seem to get the
same results as I could "easily" with Steamer.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by MkII » Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:00


I haven't tried it recently, but previous beta versions did not work if the
camera went below the fog level. Mind you, I used to get some odd results
doing this with steamer too, but at least it rendered the fog.

--
########     MkIII     ########
# 'One of these days I'm gonna get myself organizized.'  #
   http://www.mkiii-design.co.uk
         ICQ: 40635774
#######################


Quote:> I agree that the Sprite mode has a lot of potential for creating
> steamer like effects. I have been able to use it to create
> atmospheric effects but would like to see more texture options.

> Has anyone tried the ground fog in 6. I can't seem to get the
> same results as I could "easily" with Steamer.

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Darren I Thompso » Fri, 09 Jun 2000 04:00:00


There is a legacy plugin for Steamer in v6 to allow previous made scenes in
5.6 to be used in v6. You do not have the GUI that steamer had so you cannot
modify pre existing settings.

Cheers

--
Darren I Thompson
New Magic Pty Ltd

URL:  http://www.newmagic.com.au


> Maybe Im wrong, but I thought that steamer was still found in lightwave
under
> the "classics" grouping, or something of that sort. But I don't have 6.0,
so I
> could just be wrong.

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Nuno Concei?? » Sat, 10 Jun 2000 04:00:00


I hope they solve the rendering of HV3 in ScreamerNet also, because it has
different rendering results that those you get in Layout.
There is also a very annoying bug , it doesnt render objects behind
transparent HV particles, only if you turn refraction on!!

Nuno


Quote:> The doublers' job is now taken care of by the quality setting. However,
> there is no quality setting in Sprite mode. And hey, fur... you 're right,
I
> hadn't noticed.
> How I hope for those things to be fixed... NewTek ?

> nick

> --

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by Nick Hatzichristo » Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:00:00



Quote:

> I hope they solve the rendering of HV3 in ScreamerNet also, because it has
> different rendering results that those you get in Layout.
> There is also a very annoying bug , it doesnt render objects behind
> transparent HV particles, only if you turn refraction on!!

Are you sure you mean "objects behind transparent HVs" ? Because I seem to
remember reading this here the other way round, like not rendering HVs
behind transparent objects unless you turn refraction on. Which is a *good*
thing, at least to me ! I 've used this... "bug", ehm... "absent feature" in
5.6 before, when in fact I didn't want my HVs to show through a transparent
object. And now in 6, a very small, unnoticeable amount of refraction -
something like 1.01 - could work like a flag, setting the visibility of the
HVs behind transp. objects on or off.

Oh, yeah, if you meant exactly what you wrote, then disregard the nonsense
in the above paragraph... It's a bug, I want it fixed. ; )

nick

--

Nick Hatzichristos
3D Animator
Visual FX & Post Production

ICQ# : 48636115
http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx

 
 
 

HV3 again

Post by nuno conceica » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Oops Sorry it's indeed the other way arround, and I'm now sure that HV don't
render (at least correctly ) behind transparent objects EVEN WITH REFRACTION
ON, and I will prove it posting some renders in the binaries.

Thanks nick

Nuno




> > I hope they solve the rendering of HV3 in ScreamerNet also, because it
has
> > different rendering results that those you get in Layout.
> > There is also a very annoying bug , it doesnt render objects behind
> > transparent HV particles, only if you turn refraction on!!

> Are you sure you mean "objects behind transparent HVs" ? Because I seem to
> remember reading this here the other way round, like not rendering HVs
> behind transparent objects unless you turn refraction on. Which is a
*good*
> thing, at least to me ! I 've used this... "bug", ehm... "absent feature"
in
> 5.6 before, when in fact I didn't want my HVs to show through a
transparent
> object. And now in 6, a very small, unnoticeable amount of refraction -
> something like 1.01 - could work like a flag, setting the visibility of
the
> HVs behind transp. objects on or off.

> Oh, yeah, if you meant exactly what you wrote, then disregard the nonsense
> in the above paragraph... It's a bug, I want it fixed. ; )

 
 
 

1. HV3 Dont render behind transparent objects!!Again with proves

For those who think HV3 renders behind transparent objects should see the 2
pics I posted on binaries proving otherwise.
Attention : I used refraction

Nuno c.

2. Accurate Color with Fargo Primera Printer?

3. Screamers and HV3

4. about dynamic menu

5. HV3 issues

6. Footnotes

7. 16 Color mouse cursor question

8. HV3 Tutorial 2001

9. HV3 for Steamer FX...

10. Steamer gone.. Use HV3

11. Slow HV3

12. L6 and HV3 - reflection error